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Kimera Industries Project Nova: 17 liters of 5-slot mATX goodness
- Thread starter jeshikat
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Some new updates would be great. This case got me interested in small form factor cases. I'm actually trying to get a used Ncase M1 in my region (Netherlands) to tie me over until this case becomes readily available.
We've done a poor job of communicating why we're stuck, and we own that completely. I'm sorry for leaving you all out to dry on this, but we've been just as frustrated, if not more so.
Essentially, the front I/O has been giving us trouble because we've reconfigured how we'll be implementing it something like three times now. We've gone from a solution similar to the current prototype (two bundles) to a hybrid solution that combined a cable bundle and a board, to (now) a custom integrated solution on a board make specifically for us.
We're currently pretty happy with how that's been turing out (there are some benefits to the latest iteration of this component that we think people will like), but the downside is that it has simply taken forever to arrive at this point. For each solution, we have to work through our manufacturer, establish standards, get quotes, incorporate that into the case model and then refactor manufacturing... And with so many levels of work and so much communication needed, arriving at a decision point to try something else can take weeks. And it has, each time.
Alongside this I/O issue, we're also having to do some minor re-engineering of the case in order to maintain our price target and keep Nova's pricing reasonable and within the bounds we've mentioned in the past (staying as true to that as possible is very important to us). Even for an ostensibly luxury good, we want the case to be as accessible as possible - but on the other hand, we have to ensure pricing and a cost structure that keeps our business solvent, provides coverage for any unexpected costs, and allows for us to maintain operations and expand our offerings. It's a very delicate balance.
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It hasn't all been bad news, though - a lot of my own time recently has been spent polishing up the new website (which will coincide with the case reveal), and we've enlisted some design help to make that look really fantastic. We've also been working with a friend and professional on crowdfunding tiers, and other things that will come into play during the campaign, and that too is actually quite exciting for me personally.
Looking beyond KI, the other project that Aiboh and I and confusis have been working on is this forum, and SFF Network. And that's seen some really great progress as well - we've had consistent growth in traffic and engagement, we've been engaging with vendors for product reviews and other things, and we have some projects and ideas in development that will be huge boons for the SFF community.
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Anyways, I know that we've asked a lot from you all in terms of being patient for us, and I'm deeply appreciative of that, even if I don't say it enough. Regardless as to how chatty or quiet we are on the forums, we've been working very hard behind the scenes to push this forward and ensure that the cases we design and make are worth the wait. So I hope that comes through, if anything.
The side bracket is still there, but it won't fit 240mm radiators due to interference with the PSU.
So would a 120mm work?
Another thing, would the EK Predator 240 work in the bottom of the case or is it too damn big to fit?
Thanks for the update ! I never doubted that work was continuing but it was a shame to see the daily photo reveal suddenly halt into silence. But I guess every time a hurdle was encountered, you guys expected it to be solved soon, only to be piling up against all odds. I'm still a 100% with you guys and I still can't wait for this case to materialise. Keep going strong !
With a SFX/SFX-L PSU mounted up front, most any 120 or 140mm rad should fit on the side. I have a NZXT X41 and it fits fine. The main limitation is the width of the case, a thick rad and 2 fans for push/pull will be very dependent on the height of the CPU block and the flexibility of the tubing.
The 240 Predator should fit on the bottom, but that will basically limit you to a single card.
I hope so but given how things have gone so far, no promises.
Yeah, that was bad planning on our part. We were just too excited about the manufacturing pics that we start posting them before everything was nailed down. Lesson learned
True story. Silverstone put out a rebate for the TJ08-E and I was sorely tempted. But alas, doubts about build quality and whether it was enough of a shrink from my current set up (and also my 780 Classified's fat, fat PCB) stayed my hand.
Keeping in mind that ATX PSUs limit the CPU heatsink clearance to ~45mm, what kind of PSU are you all planning to use?
http://strawpoll.me/5931693
http://strawpoll.me/5931693
Aww, I'm the only vote for SFX... but I guess most people will buy new stuff so SFX-L makes more sense. If I wasn't going to start my initial build based on parts I already have, I think I would have choosen SFX-L as well.
I'm seeing it like this, conservatively, arbitrary and by no means a strict list:
So depending on your desire to OC and need for graphics power, I'd choose the PSU. There's not much reason to go with ATX PSUs unless you'll need more than 600W (if the 700W SFX-L 80+ Platinum proves worthy) and I'd only go with SFX over SFX-L if you only need 350W or less.
- SFX goes up to 600W today but noisy at that max load, so preferably at 400W during load:
- up to 100W CPU with 300W GPU (example: Core i5 or i7 or AMD A8 / A10 with GTX 980Ti or Fury X)
- up to 150W CPU with 250W GPU (example: Core i7 socket 2011 or AMD FX with GTX 980 or R9 Nano)
- up to 200W CPU with 200W GPU (example: Core i7 X OC'ed or AMD FX BE with GTX 970 or R9 380)
- SFX-L 500W available but 700W 80+ Platinum expected soon, 600W during load should be reasonable noise-wise:
- up to 100W CPU with two 200W GPU (example: Core i5 or i7 or AMD A8 / A10 with SLI GTX 970 or CF R9 380)
- up to 150W CPU with 350W GPU (example: OC'ed Core i5 or i7 or AMD A8 / A10 with OC'ed GTX 980Ti or Fury X)
- up to 200W CPU with 300W GPU (example: Core i7 X OC'ed or AMD FX BE with GTX 980 Ti or Fury X)
- ATX up to 1000W should be possible, which easily should achieve 800W during load for reasonable noise:
- up to 100W CPU with two 350W GPU (example: Core i5 or i7 or AMD A8 / A10 with OC'ed SLI GTX 980Ti or CF Fury X)
- up to 200W CPU with two 300W GPU (example: Core i7 X OC'ed or AMD FX BE with SLI GTX 980Ti or CF R9 Fury X)
- up to 250W CPU with 550W GPU (example: heavily OC'ed Core i7 X or AMD FX BE with GTX "990" or R9 Fury "X2")
So depending on your desire to OC and need for graphics power, I'd choose the PSU. There's not much reason to go with ATX PSUs unless you'll need more than 600W (if the 700W SFX-L 80+ Platinum proves worthy) and I'd only go with SFX over SFX-L if you only need 350W or less.
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I'm really surprised at at the disparity too considering here in the USA the SX500-LG is the only SFX-L unit available.
I've talked with Tony about the SX700-LPT and I have high hopes. It sounds like the fan control is sophisticated enough to really keep the fan off under low to moderate loads.
I think there is one more reason to use ATX besides wattage: noise.
I've never had a thin fan, 15 mm thick, 20mm thick, sleeve bearing or HDB, that didn't either chatter away or be the loudest fan in my build at any RPM. I've never had an SFX PSU, but I do remember the days when ATX version 1.somethingorother PSUs had 80 mm fans and they were loud. So with current fan technology, ATX is the only way to avoid either a woodpecker or a screaming banshee in your build (unless of course, you over-provision wattage and keep the load low).
Hmm...FSP has a 500W Platinum rated FlexATX PSU: http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/index.php?do=proinfo&id=2351
Volume on that is a tad under 0.5L.
SFX-L is 63.5mm (H) x 125mm (W) x 130mm (D). Subtracting 25mm gives a height of 38.5mm for 0.62L. So maybe it is possible to have a SFX-L unit with a standard 25mm thick fan. Would be interesting, almost half the volume of the unit would be fan
Volume on that is a tad under 0.5L.
SFX-L is 63.5mm (H) x 125mm (W) x 130mm (D). Subtracting 25mm gives a height of 38.5mm for 0.62L. So maybe it is possible to have a SFX-L unit with a standard 25mm thick fan. Would be interesting, almost half the volume of the unit would be fan
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I accounted for noise and I consider the 500W SFX-L PSU (atleast the one I have) to be quiet enough to not be the noise factor with my system (specs in signature). So it is possible without defaulting to ATX.
If we look at how much volume differential there is between a CPU and its cooler or a GPU and its cooler, only half still seems reasonableWould be interesting, almost half the volume of the unit would be fan
SFX-L is 63.5mm (H) x 125mm (W) x 130mm (D). Subtracting 25mm gives a height of 38.5mm for 0.62L. So maybe it is possible to have a SFX-L unit with a standard 25mm thick fan. Would be interesting, almost half the volume of the unit would be fan
Oh wow, I wonder what the internal layout of such a PSU would be like
... The z-height of big electrolytic caps are a limiting factor since they can be even taller than the heatsinks for the VRMs. So solid caps it is. And speaking of VRMs, they'd have to undergo a node shrink from 1 micron or whatever they're currently being made on to a smaller high power process...45 nm maybe? Cooler running VRMs mean smaller heatsinks. Not sure what can be done about inductors. Maybe rotate them 90 degrees and trade z-height for bigger footprint.Yes, well, noise is a very subjective thing. Direct drive transformers that people claim to be quiet are a maddening assault on my ears.
May I ask how much power your build draws?
Certainly, but that FSP unit is only 40.5mm tall. Here's a look at the inside: http://www.overclock.net/t/1518488/...help-us-gaining-interest/280_20#post_24230716
It's very crammed but doesn't look like anything super exotic is going on in there in terms of parts or layout.
The layout is unusual, very clever putting the 3.3V/5V side on a second level. Might form a big dead zone in airflow with a top down fan though. Not sure how you'd shave another 2-3 mm off the other daughter board without making a new ASIC from the discrete components on there or using non-standard headers to connect with the main. I guess if FSP is okay with all those diodes/switches/power MOSFETs/whathaveyou sharing a heatsink, all that's needed is to maybe change from TO-220 to a different package. I don't know of any OTS replacements though. And maybe it's just in relation to all the other components, but that Chemi-con (primary filter?) cap looks kind of wider than most others.
Not super exotic, no, but it's strange. Also makes other units look barren in comparison. You won't catch me opening up something like that, I'd never be able to put it back together.
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