Prototype SFFtime presents: N-ATX - 14 L case with ATX mbo and psu, 4-slot gpu and 360mm rad support!

duynguyenle

Airflow Optimizer
Aug 20, 2019
276
253
Why not pushing thickness to match L12S in pushpull of slim fan? ie 85/86mm?
Are you not fearing to recycle hot GPU air in cpu cooling while just using L12S, 70mm tall with 79mm wide case?..:)

Having space in front of the fan instead of pushing it right up against the grill has quite large noise benefits. Fan noise can be very bothersome when positioned in close proximity to inlet grill.

As long as you can evacuate the air efficiently, I don't think CPU cooling will be hugely affected by GPU thermals. Adding a fan in the bottom 120mm would help as well I think. You can look at HW Canucks' recent review of the P-ATX v2 for evidence of this. They used a 5950X and RTX 3080 in the P-ATX (much smaller than N-ATX) with a 59mm tall cooler and still got good results.

If you do find CPU cooling inadequate, a very popular solution is to 3D-print a fan shroud or make one out of cardboard to ensure the CPU cooler ingest air from outside the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: riba2233

MarcParis

Spatial Philosopher
Apr 1, 2016
3,340
2,362
Having space in front of the fan instead of pushing it right up against the grill has quite large noise benefits. Fan noise can be very bothersome when positioned in close proximity to inlet grill.

As long as you can evacuate the air efficiently, I don't think CPU cooling will be hugely affected by GPU thermals. Adding a fan in the bottom 120mm would help as well I think. You can look at HW Canucks' recent review of the P-ATX v2 for evidence of this. They used a 5950X and RTX 3080 in the P-ATX (much smaller than N-ATX) with a 59mm tall cooler and still got good results.

If you do find CPU cooling inadequate, a very popular solution is to 3D-print a fan shroud or make one out of cardboard to ensure the CPU cooler ingest air from outside the case.
I fully agree about noise increase when a grid and a fan are direct neighbours...like PSU...but...
However leaving 9mm above Noctua L12S is leaving me unsatisfied...but that's not end of the world..;)
Especially as there are other options : ID cooling IS-60 or Black ridge with 25mm fan..:)

Hardware Canucks video, as using ATX motherboard is instructive as Thermalright AX100 is fitting just nicely on ATX MB..:)
Love this space about CPU on ATX motherboard vs tiny space on Mini ITX ones. (by the way they put a 5900X in it, not 5950X)

By the way, Zen 2 and above CPU (stock settings) are friendly to small cpu cooler as they adjust speed/vcore to it. Performance impact remain minimum.
I've tested Cryorig C7 on stock Zen 2 R7 3800X inside my Cerberus-X succesfully.
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...erberus-x-complete-build-log.2007/post-185864


Basically SFFTIME N-ATX will offer ATX MB & 3 slots GPU support within 14l with following compromises :
  1. PCIe Riser constraint (still worried as Gen 4 riser still struggle to arrive on market)
  2. Average CPU cooling (up to 105w somehow) (completely fine for Ryzen CPU..;) Not really for too much power hungry Intel)
  3. Not available yet..:)
I will definetely follow its evolution..;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: rfarmer

riba2233

King of Cable Management
Original poster
SFF Time
Bronze Supporter
Jan 2, 2019
858
1,243
www.sfftime.com
Why not pushing thickness to match L12S in pushpull of slim fan? ie 85/86mm?
Are you not fearing to recycle hot GPU air in cpu cooling while just using L12S, 70mm tall with 79mm wide case?..:)


I don't think it will be a problem, case is very well ventilated so cpu cooler can breathe without being to impacted by gpu. From my experience in P-ATX with this much ventilation hot air just doesn't stay inside.


Having space in front of the fan instead of pushing it right up against the grill has quite large noise benefits. Fan noise can be very bothersome when positioned in close proximity to inlet grill.

As long as you can evacuate the air efficiently, I don't think CPU cooling will be hugely affected by GPU thermals. Adding a fan in the bottom 120mm would help as well I think. You can look at HW Canucks' recent review of the P-ATX v2 for evidence of this. They used a 5950X and RTX 3080 in the P-ATX (much smaller than N-ATX) with a 59mm tall cooler and still got good results.

If you do find CPU cooling inadequate, a very popular solution is to 3D-print a fan shroud or make one out of cardboard to ensure the CPU cooler ingest air from outside the case.


On point as always :)


Wonder if I can mount a pcie to m2 card into that space above there but without the pcie bracket

It would work in theory, but it would negatively impact the case structure, that's why I didn't include that feature.
 

Retrias

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Sep 28, 2018
106
50
It would work in theory, but it would negatively impact the case structure, that's why I didn't include that feature.
Yeah, thats why I am thinking of just taking the pcie bracket on the expansion card out and just leave it hanging without latching into anything, since its just a pcie to m.2 card it should be light enough
Amazon productsomething like that
 

MarcParis

Spatial Philosopher
Apr 1, 2016
3,340
2,362
Got one of this pcie 16x adapter pcie to m.2 without pcie bracket...pretty useful..;)

What is max height possible on this kind of expansion card to keep 3 slots GPU compatible please?
 

riba2233

King of Cable Management
Original poster
SFF Time
Bronze Supporter
Jan 2, 2019
858
1,243
www.sfftime.com
Thanks for the really fast answer. I will go wait for the case now, I think I have gotten all of my answers

Awesome, thank you! :)

Got one of this pcie 16x adapter pcie to m.2 without pcie bracket...pretty useful..;)

What is max height possible on this kind of expansion card to keep 3 slots GPU compatible please?

With 3 slot gpu you have maybe 11 or 12 mm between gpu backplate and the top of the pcie connector on MBO (or around 30mm with 2-slot gpu). But most motherboards have one extra pciex1 or x4 slot on top of x16 gpu slot, so you could mount it there.

Also here is another nice 75mm high cpu cooler:

 

MarcParis

Spatial Philosopher
Apr 1, 2016
3,340
2,362
With 3 slot gpu you have maybe 11 or 12 mm between gpu backplate and the top of the pcie connector on MBO (or around 30mm with 2-slot gpu). But most motherboards have one extra pciex1 or x4 slot on top of x16 gpu slot, so you could mount it there.

Also here is another nice 75mm high cpu cooler:

Ok thanks. I'll check on my physical MB and card and let you know outcome.

Sure beQuiet SHADOW ROCK LP is also a proper candidate, even if I prefer, by far, L12S, Shuriken 3 or IS-60/Blackridge/IS-47K with 25mm fan..;)

I guess best potential cpu cooler for N-ATX will be ID cooling IS-60 EVO with 25mm fan on top (same heatsink of IS-47K with 120mm top fan and 92mm slim fan below). Total of around 74mm tall.
http://www.idcooling.com/Product/detail/id/227/name/IS-60 EVO ARGB


Really strong heatsink that requires "strong" airflow...even beating L12S while used in push pull setup.
More discussion about this cooler :
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...fan-black-ridge-alternative.13754/post-221028
 

riba2233

King of Cable Management
Original poster
SFF Time
Bronze Supporter
Jan 2, 2019
858
1,243
www.sfftime.com
Ok thanks. I'll check on my physical MB and card and let you know outcome.

Sure beQuiet SHADOW ROCK LP is also a proper candidate, even if I prefer, by far, L12S, Shuriken 3 or IS-60/Blackridge/IS-47K with 25mm fan..;)

I guess best potential cpu cooler for N-ATX will be ID cooling IS-60 EVO with 25mm fan on top (same heatsink of IS-47K with 120mm top fan and 92mm slim fan below). Total of around 74mm tall.
http://www.idcooling.com/Product/detail/id/227/name/IS-60 EVO ARGB


Really strong heatsink that requires "strong" airflow...even beating L12S while used in push pull setup.
More discussion about this cooler :
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...fan-black-ridge-alternative.13754/post-221028


Yeah, it looks awesome, and with A12x25 it will be a killer :)
 

MarcParis

Spatial Philosopher
Apr 1, 2016
3,340
2,362
Nice, please share the results!
For sure!

Additional question related to P/N-ATX : could we have horizontal stand? Have you tested it?
Vertical stand is great for desktop, but horizontal stand is great for htpc/living room.
 

riba2233

King of Cable Management
Original poster
SFF Time
Bronze Supporter
Jan 2, 2019
858
1,243
www.sfftime.com
For sure!

Additional question related to P/N-ATX : could we have horizontal stand? Have you tested it?
Vertical stand is great for desktop, but horizontal stand is great for htpc/living room.

I will offer some 8mm 3M stick on feet from next week, if someone wants to mount it horizontally. Temps should be similar since both gpu and cpu intake from the same, open side.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarcParis

MarcParis

Spatial Philosopher
Apr 1, 2016
3,340
2,362
I will offer some 8mm 3M stick on feet from next week, if someone wants to mount it horizontally. Temps should be similar since both gpu and cpu intake from the same, open side.
They will be included with case afterwards or is it temporary offer?..:)
 

MarcParis

Spatial Philosopher
Apr 1, 2016
3,340
2,362
Additional question : what is material of side panel? I was thinking to use magnetic tape to secure feet...less scratches on paint..:)
 

Camo5

Chassis Packer
Sep 5, 2020
13
2
I think I'm definitely going to rotate it counter-clockwise so the motherboard ports face down, so my 120mm aio cooler block stays above the cpu, and better cable management. How does the current set of feet mount? I'm guessing I'll have to bend some metal to get them to work in that config.
 

Raivo

Cable Smoosher
Sep 29, 2020
10
4
I think I'm definitely going to rotate it counter-clockwise so the motherboard ports face down, so my 120mm aio cooler block stays above the cpu, and better cable management. How does the current set of feet mount? I'm guessing I'll have to bend some metal to get them to work in that config.

This seems interesting idea. I think you would need modifications to use current feet as placement wont match and you may need more clearance in height for thicker cables/connectors (HDMI, DP, PSU). Also small downside would be that in this case top of the case would be solid.