Completed SFFtime presents: N-ATX - 14 L case with ATX mbo and psu, 4-slot gpu and 360mm rad support!

[MarcParis]

Would a Corsair RM850x fit inside this case? Also, any idea on production time? Bought your P-ATX around Feb last year, it's been great. But this can really take things to the next level.

N-ATX is compatible with ATX PSU (up to 160mm).

However, except for physical compatibility, why ATX PSU should "take things to the next level" in N-ATX please? N-ATX has limitations on component capacity (up to 2 GPU with reduced cooling capabilities)...for my point of view, we have already access to SFX/SFX-L PSU that can handle easily & quietly all this load.

As far as understood, ATX PSU compatibility is a nice addition while converting your setup from mid tower to SFF world....at least on paper...as you will need anyway new cables...

 

[aw16046]

N-ATX is compatible with ATX PSU (up to 160mm).

However, except for physical compatibility, why ATX PSU should "take things to the next level" in N-ATX please? N-ATX has limitations on component capacity (up to 2 GPU with reduced cooling capabilities)...for my point of view, we have already access to SFX/SFX-L PSU that can handle easily & quietly all this load.

As far as understood, ATX PSU compatibility is a nice addition while converting your setup from mid tower to SFF world....at least on paper...as you will need anyway new cables...

Why would it be next level? The ability to accept Seasonic Titanium power supplies would be amazing...

 

[MarcParis]

Why would it be next level? The ability to accept Seasonic Titanium power supplies would be amazing...

My SX-800 is also titanium..
I mean I love Seasonic PSU, but my computer won’t work better as long PSU is reliable, quiet and very efficient

 

[aw16046]

My SX-800 is also titanium..
I mean I love Seasonic PSU, but my computer won’t work better as long PSU is reliable, quiet and very efficient

I know the PSU you're referring to (http://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2016/08/01/silverstone-strider-titanium-st80f-ti-800w-power-supply/), but I prefer the Seasonic on a performance basis. Plus I like their passive Titanium options too.

 

[xKannibale]

However, except for physical compatibility, why ATX PSU should "take things to the next level" in N-ATX please? N-ATX has limitations on component capacity (up to 2 GPU with reduced cooling capabilities)...for my point of view, we have already access to SFX/SFX-L PSU that can handle easily & quietly all this load.

As far as understood, ATX PSU compatibility is a nice addition while converting your setup from mid tower to SFF world....at least on paper...as you will need anyway new cables...

Because full sized ATX power supplies are quieter, cheaper, easier to get ahold of. Just like full sized ATX motherboards are better quality, more features, while being cheaper than their ITX counterparts. When I say it takes it to the next level, I mean next level of compatibility. I need a new GPU? Cool I just buy whatever's in stock, I don't need to worry about it being too thick or tall. PSU dies? Nice I don't need to worry for a 750w SFX unit to come back into stock that only drops a few times every couple months in Canada. Upgrading my motherboard but there's no decent ITX options? Easy.

Full sized components are the standard, they are the cheapest, most easily found and also considered the best overall options. This case can make the ultimate full sized compact console PC.

With the V1 P-ATX I feel like I'm half way there. I have a full sized motherboard with all 4 RAM slots filled out, 1.5tb of NVME storage. But having to go into that niche and look for SFX PSUs or a GPU that can only be max 115mm tall, makes decisions a little more complicated. I'd like to be able to just get what I need and not waste time looking for stock.

 

[MarcParis]

Because full sized ATX power supplies are quieter, cheaper, easier to get ahold of. Just like full sized ATX motherboards are better quality, more features, while being cheaper than their ITX counterparts. When I say it takes it to the next level, I mean next level of compatibility. I need a new GPU? Cool I just buy whatever's in stock, I don't need to worry about it being too thick or tall. PSU dies? Nice I don't need to worry for a 750w SFX unit to come back into stock that only drops a few times every couple months in Canada. Upgrading my motherboard but there's no decent ITX options? Easy.

Full sized components are the standard, they are the cheapest, most easily found and also considered the best overall options. This case can make the ultimate full sized compact console PC.

With the V1 P-ATX I feel like I'm half way there. I have a full sized motherboard with all 4 RAM slots filled out, 1.5tb of NVME storage. But having to go into that niche and look for SFX PSUs or a GPU that can only be max 115mm tall, makes decisions a little more complicated. I'd like to be able to just get what I need and not waste time looking for stock.

You know that I’m a lover of Cerberus-X, smallest case compatible with ATX psu without constraint of riser? Got pre-production case since early 2017...so I fully understand you that ATX motherboard are really next level versus ITX, as they are imposing a lot of constraints.
Just read my full log on Cerberus-X to understand my love to this case, flexibility and ATX motherboard...

Based on my long experience in Cerberus-X I never regret ATX PSU (indeed as SFF fan since 2008, I was choosing short ATX psu with 140 depth...with limited choice already). When I switched to sfx world it was not perfect...especially clearly overstated SF600 Gold from Corsair in 2016 (not that reliable and awful fan control). But I tried SX800 lti and it is truly an amazing psu since 2017...nothing to complain.
For now my SF750 is working like a charm with RTX3090...now let’s hope it will last long.
Seasonic is also arriving on sfx gaming psu (750w platinum announced but no release date)
Cooler Master is also releasing interesting models.

Once again, true advantage of N-ATX is its compatibility with ATX motherboard. For my point of view, ATX psu are not suited for SFF, especially as we have reliable SFX/L psu available...but it took time to reach that point.

 

[xKannibale]

Once again, true advantage of N-ATX is its compatibility with ATX motherboard. For my point of view, ATX psu are not suited for SFF, especially as we have reliable SFX/L psu available...but it took time to reach that point.

But then you can just go with the standard P-ATX like I have? Full sized ATX motherboard support, SFX power supply. With the new 3000 series GPUs, most aren't dual slot cards. You need at least 2.2-3 slots for each GPU along with a beefy PSU. There are definitely SFX power supplies as good as some of the best ATX ones, but those are always at least 50% more expensive (when they're even in stock) and again the fan is physically smaller so they're going to be louder. A console case like this sitting on your desk with completely unfiltered side panels and you can hear the smallest of noise with ease.

 

[MarcParis]

But then you can just go with the standard P-ATX like I have? Full sized ATX motherboard support, SFX power supply. With the new 3000 series GPUs, most aren't dual slot cards. You need at least 2.2-3 slots for each GPU along with a beefy PSU. There are definitely SFX power supplies as good as some of the best ATX ones, but those are always at least 50% more expensive (when they're even in stock) and again the fan is physically smaller so they're going to be louder. A console case like this sitting on your desk with completely unfiltered side panels and you can hear the smallest of noise with ease.

Nope P-ATX is only compatible with 1 pcie slot (all the others are behind GPU). Cerberus-X is offering full ATX motherboard compatibility. (My setup has right 5.5To of m.2 SSD)

Well as you compare with Seasonic titanium prime series, those PSU are the pinnacle but they are also quite expensive.
I'm also pretty sensitive on noise, especially on idle/low load...and I can assure that you can reach silent setup even on SFF world

However, to be honest, SFF world first aim is to reduce space used by computer. SFF Price is generally more expensive...but it should last as long as any mid tower setup.

 

[Retrias]

if I ever design a case , the very first thing I would sacrifice is ATX PSU compatibility rather than cooler/gpu/storage/whatever else. Going back to my prev post on this topic while I do understand why you would want to use an ATX PSU, with stuff like fully passive high powered unit only available in that form factor, its still something I would sacrifice first as it just takes too much space in term of dimension in the SFF world

 

[Kit]

if I ever design a case , the very first thing I would sacrifice is ATX PSU compatibility rather than cooler/gpu/storage/whatever else. Going back to my prev post on this topic while I do understand why you would want to use an ATX PSU, with stuff like fully passive high powered unit only available in that form factor, its still something I would sacrifice first as it just takes too much space in term of dimension in the SFF world

I don't get your logic, there's no dimension that this case is sacrificing to provide atx psu support?

 

[MarcParis]

I don't get your logic, there's no dimension that this case is sacrificing to provide atx psu support?

Well I guess main point is that sfx psu is no longer a significant sacrifice vs atx.
Don’t forget you will always need full custom cable for atx psu inside sff.

 

[Retrias]

Well I guess main point is that sfx psu is no longer a significant sacrifice vs atx.
Don’t forget you will always need full custom cable for atx psu inside sff.

this is the point , there is no sacrifice in making the case only accomodate SFX instead of both. There is always room to save if anything

 

[MarcParis]

this is the point , there is no sacrifice in making the case only accomodate SFX instead of both. There is always room to save if anything

Even in N-ATX, ATX PSU should bring additional constraint on GPU height as ATX PSU are 14cm in depth (on shorter version), vs 13cm for SFX-L & 10cm for SFX.
You can put ATX PSU in Cerberus-X but it's bringing additional constraints (CPU cooled only with very short AIO cpu block)

But let's see how it will be in N-ATX

 

[Kit]

Well I guess main point is that sfx psu is no longer a significant sacrifice vs atx.
Don’t forget you will always need full custom cable for atx psu inside sff.

I agree that SFX PSU are advancing toward parity with ATX PSU

I disagree that you always need a custom cable kit for SFF, almost all between 14L - 20L which can accomadate it and nearly all cases that can't would benefit from custom cables with an SFX PSU

 

[Kit]

Even in N-ATX, ATX PSU should bring additional constraint on GPU height as ATX PSU are 14cm in depth (on shorter version), vs 13cm for SFX-L & 10cm for SFX.
You can put ATX PSU in Cerberus-X but it's bringing additional constraints (CPU cooled only with very short AIO cpu block)

But let's see how it will be in N-ATX

Did you look at the renders before stateing that, if so which one?

I could see interference if you used the top slot for a long second gpu?

 

[MarcParis]

Did you look at the renders before stateing that, if so which one?

I could see interference if you used the top slot for a long second gpu?

Here there are...of course without cables it looks nice, even with RTX 3090...but these are renders with 140mm depth atx, whereas best ATX psu are 160/170mm long. (Like Seasonic titanium prime are 170mm)
With cables it will be another story.

 

[MarcParis]

I disagree that you always need a custom cable kit for SFF, almost all between 14L - 20L which can accomadate it and nearly all cases that can't would benefit from custom cables with an SFX PSU

My statement about custom cables was only ATX PSU inside SFF case. (ATX PSU are provided with way too long cables for SFF cases)
Personnally I'm not using any psu customs cable for my SFX/SFX L psu inside my Cerberus-X or SM550.

 

[Kit]

Here there are...of course with tout cables it looks nice, even with RTX 3090...but these are renders with 140mm depth atx, whereas best ATX psu are 160/170mm long. (Like Seasonic titanium prime are 170mm)
With cables it will be another story.

Yeah I don't see an issue with the ATX PSU either, if you really needed to use a powerful psu there are 140mm depth models like the Strider Platinum ST1200-PTS for example.... which has been available since 2018?

 

[MarcParis]

Yeah I don't see an issue with the ATX PSU either, if you really needed to use a powerful psu there are 140mm depth models like the Strider Platinum ST1200-PTS for example.... which has been available since 2018?

What for having 1200w psu in N-ATX??? One cpu, one gpu, why 1200w??

At least in cerberus-X, ATX psu was essential for workstation. @fabio did a 4 gpu setup...
But for N-ATX, you can just have 1 cpu, 1 gpu (potentially a second gpu...with heavy restriction)...don’t see the point.

All this discussion about ATX psu compatibility in N-ATX is really boring me.
@riba2233 is working hard to deliver an excellent case to help shrinking case size. This discussion on ATX psu in SFF is starting to pollute this thread.

 

[Kit]

What for having 1200w psu in N-ATX??? One cpu, one gpu, why 1200w??

At least in cerberus-X, ATX psu was essential for workstation. @fabio did a 4 gpu setup...
But for N-ATX, you can just have 1 cpu, 1 gpu (potentially a second gpu...with heavy restriction)...don’t see the point.

All this discussion about ATX psu compatibility in N-ATX is really boring me.
@riba2233 is working hard to deliver an excellent case to help shrinking case size. This discussion on ATX psu in SFF is starting to pollute this thread.

You stated that the the best ATX PSU were not in the 140mm class, I gave an example of a very good/efficent one that could cover all possible needs, since you seemed unaware?

I think riba has done an excellent job with this case and by providing ATX PSU support at no detriment to the design/capacity should be applauded not derided, also it was you that engauged me in the ATX PSU discussion, I was replying to Retrias originally.