OptimumTech made a video about how single 24O radiator will not see benefit of Apogee Drive 2 (DDC) over DC-LT. DDC really shines on multi-radiator.
Prototype Free Flow CPU Pump Block
- Thread starter Wahaha360
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OptimumTech made a video about how single 24O radiator will not see benefit of Apogee Drive 2 (DDC) over DC-LT. DDC really shines on multi-radiator.
Nope, I have the eisbaer lt240 and a ddc pump in a custom loop on a ncase m1 right now and the dc-lt pump is very VERY efficient in a noise to rpm ratio. At idle is very difficult to hear it, much more than a ddc pump at 1200 rpm por example. And the temps don´t suffer much... after that, even at 2600 rpm the pump doesn´t make that much noise... it´s not easily discernable over a fan 12cm at 1500 rpm.
You will always get about 2 degrees better temps with a stronger pump, but it´s not the end of the world. In my opinion the best compromise would be two dc-lt pumps for a custom loop with two blocks and two radiators. At idle, it can be bnear silent, and at full load the fans are going to be louder almost always.
The other drawback of the DDC pumps is that they all require a 4-pin molex connector designed in the 1960's which means another power cable with big connectors in a compact system. Even the Alphacool DDC-310 which only draws 10W uses that molex connector even though most modern MB have fan headers that can supply 12W. I'm guessing that there are still many MB that only offer 6W on fan headers and pump manufacturers must be conservative on what they can expect, but all 3 headers on my 570-i MB are rated for 12W.
I'm currently looking at the LT solo because of that OptimumTech video, but if I did go DDC, I would either swap the DDC-310 onto an Apogee base or look for something like this Fr33Flow using that 10W pump and rewire it to use a regular fan header for power and RPM.
Note that the DDC-310 is 200l/h at 2.44mH2O. While that flow rate is much lower than the Apogee 18W unit, and the pressure is close to half, most people under drive the Apogee way down in speed to alleviate noise and at that point the flow rate is probably similar to the DDC-310 anyway. (I'd love to see figures on that, though.) But since the Apogee DDC pump is capable of 18W max you wouldn't be able to rewire it without endangering your MB headers. Even if you had the bios setting to lower its pump speed, it would likely surge to much higher wattage on startup before the control algorithms kicked in.
I'm currently looking at the LT solo because of that OptimumTech video, but if I did go DDC, I would either swap the DDC-310 onto an Apogee base or look for something like this Fr33Flow using that 10W pump and rewire it to use a regular fan header for power and RPM.
Note that the DDC-310 is 200l/h at 2.44mH2O. While that flow rate is much lower than the Apogee 18W unit, and the pressure is close to half, most people under drive the Apogee way down in speed to alleviate noise and at that point the flow rate is probably similar to the DDC-310 anyway. (I'd love to see figures on that, though.) But since the Apogee DDC pump is capable of 18W max you wouldn't be able to rewire it without endangering your MB headers. Even if you had the bios setting to lower its pump speed, it would likely surge to much higher wattage on startup before the control algorithms kicked in.
Just a heads up - you can rewire the molex connector to whatever you want, including to a fan header. There are adapters that will do this for you, or you can just rewire the two 12v pins to a fan connector yourself, if the size of the connector is a big deal.
12v is 12v, just don't pull more wattage than the port can give you.
The pumps all have a molex plus another 3-pin connector so you can monitor pump speed. I'd rather wire them all onto a single 3-pin header connector rather than add an adapter to a crowded case and I'd get an RPM monitor in the same connector while I'm at it. With the adapter you have an extra bunch of wires and have to decide between using a second header to get an RPM reading or just living without one.
Wattage is indeed a concern which is why I listed watt ratings for all of the connections I was considering in my previous post. The builder should double check the power ratings on their fan headers, and hopefully they are all 12W. If so, then I wouldn't recommend rewiring the Apogee Drive II as it is 18W, but rewiring the DDC-310 at 10W is worth considering.
Another option would be to rewire and recrimp the pump (assuming you only want a single 3pin cable to run the pump) and then drive it using something like an Aquacomputer Quadro which supplies you with 4x outputs that can supply 25W each (plus you get really powerful fan control and temperature monitoring management via Aquasuite, plus a couple of flow sensor and thermocouple inputs, which is always handy and opens up the posibility of managing pump and fan speed based on coolant temperature which IMO is better than tying it to CPU temp or using motherboard's build in fan control)
That is a nice component!
The quadro looks surprisingly small for what it does, but I don't think there is a good place to put it in my Ghost S1. It would probably fit below the PSU, but if you have a second bottom radiator (which is when a high powered DDC becomes a good choice) then you'd lose that mounting location.
Also, the Quadro takes a 4 pin molex as an input - which defeats the "I don't want to have an extra PSU cable in the case just to support 4 pin molex" consideration. If I'm going to have to have a 4 pin molex anyway, I'd just connect it to the pump. I was trying to present/brainstorm ways to avoid needing the 4 pin molex to get DDC.
That is a nice component!
The quadro looks surprisingly small for what it does, but I don't think there is a good place to put it in my Ghost S1. It would probably fit below the PSU, but if you have a second bottom radiator (which is when a high powered DDC becomes a good choice) then you'd lose that mounting location.
Also, the Quadro takes a 4 pin molex as an input - which defeats the "I don't want to have an extra PSU cable in the case just to support 4 pin molex" consideration. If I'm going to have to have a 4 pin molex anyway, I'd just connect it to the pump. I was trying to present/brainstorm ways to avoid needing the 4 pin molex to get DDC.
It's not too difficult to desolder the connector and just wire the quadro directly into a spare peripheral port on your PSU for power (I'm gonna assume most modular PSUs have way more connectors than you're gonna use for a SFF case). The board itself is really small and can be easily taped into the side of the case wall or basically anywhere there's space using a little bit of 3M VHB tape. If you are handy with crimping your own cables, it is also not too difficult to trim and re-crimp all the fans/pump cables to the perfect length to fit your chosen mouting location.
All in all, it probably will take a lot of effort, but the payoff might be worth it depending on how far you're prepared to go for the 'perfect rig'
But how is any of that simpler or smaller than taking the 3 wires coming out of the DCC-310 and inserting them into a single 3-pin fan header connector? You would have to recrimp 2 of the wires to a fan header type of pin, but that is the limit of the rewiring.
Very excited for this block! In conjunction with the distroplate for the T1, this will be so awesome!
There has been no announcement of a distro plate for the T1, it was complete conjecture on someones part. Best not to start anymore rumors about the T1.
By no one else than Wahaha himself: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/sidearmd-t1-cnc-aio-9-35l.9933/page-172#post-188139
If there's going to be someone that gets me into water cooling, it's clearly going to be @Wahaha360 with the T1. All of the accessories being built around the platform are fantastic additions to the SFF community. If he can figure out how to make the pump completely silent, I will buy it in a heartbeat!
Dito. My game plan is to get a T1 and aircool everything at first. Then (hopefully) I'll buy the pump and distroplate and a compatible 240mm rad and watercool everything. This will be my build for the upcoming LG CX OLED TV. Can't wait to play minecraft in 4k@120fps on an OLED with a silent T1.
Update 2020-03-03 : Performance tested and it sucks ?, OPTIMIZATION NEXT!
From left to right:
1. DDC, ≈ 6.5 L/M or 390 L/H
2. DDC + IceManCooler Top, ≈ 9 L/M or 540 L/H
3. P5 (same as EK SPC), ≈ 4.5 L/M or 270 L/H
4. P5 + IceManCooler Top, ≈ 5 L/M or 300 L/H
5. IceManCooler M1 DDC Pump Res, ≈ 9 L/M or 540 L/H
6. * this project, ≈ 4.5 L/M or 270 L/H
7. * Alpahcool DC-LT should be ≈ 1.6 L/M or 96 L/H
8. * Asetek/NZXT/Corsair/Cooler Master/DeepCool should be ≈ 0.5 L/M or 30 L/H
For SFF builds running a *single radiator (120, 240, 280, maybe even 360), pump makes insignificant performance / cooling difference, noise is subject (see Optimum Tech video). DDC and D5 makes a difference on performance / cooling when using multiple radiator / block configurations.
I will optimize the water channels to try and get above 8 L/M or 480 L/H.
From left to right:
1. DDC, ≈ 6.5 L/M or 390 L/H
2. DDC + IceManCooler Top, ≈ 9 L/M or 540 L/H
3. P5 (same as EK SPC), ≈ 4.5 L/M or 270 L/H
4. P5 + IceManCooler Top, ≈ 5 L/M or 300 L/H
5. IceManCooler M1 DDC Pump Res, ≈ 9 L/M or 540 L/H
6. * this project, ≈ 4.5 L/M or 270 L/H
7. * Alpahcool DC-LT should be ≈ 1.6 L/M or 96 L/H
8. * Asetek/NZXT/Corsair/Cooler Master/DeepCool should be ≈ 0.5 L/M or 30 L/H
For SFF builds running a *single radiator (120, 240, 280, maybe even 360), pump makes insignificant performance / cooling difference, noise is subject (see Optimum Tech video). DDC and D5 makes a difference on performance / cooling when using multiple radiator / block configurations.
I will optimize the water channels to try and get above 8 L/M or 480 L/H.
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What for? 4.5l/m is more than enough. I would be happy to buy it in the current state.
