Chimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

[Commissariat]

Anyone have thoughts on steel vs aluminum for the exterior panels? Still powder-coated.

It'd be a bit more expensive but I wonder if that'd help justify the price to those who equate aluminum to quality. Frame would still be steel.

I think that even though aluminum construction/panels does not necessarily mean you'll get a higher quality product, I'd say that the association between aluminum and high quality PC cases is so strong in the mainstream PC building community that most people would indeed rather pay 10-15$ more for aluminum side/top/front panels (as some rude posts on Dmitry's video that said 249$ was too much for a steel case would indicate).

Personally, I don't mind either way. Aluminum or steel side panels would both be fine as long as the interior frame is steel (and therefore magnetic/compatible with demciflex filters/more rigid and reliable than an aluminum one), especially considering they'll be powder-coated and therefore visually indistinguishable. My main concern, however, is the commercial viability of Cerberus, and therefore I voted for aluminum side panels in the form you and Phoenix sent to the kickstarter backers.

Also, I'd like to ask something: would there be a way to include non-EMI filtered headphone and microphone jacks for negligible cost? I think not having audio jacks on a premium case might turn some people off, and this way you could still offer a upgrade kit in the future for those who value that feature if Cerberus becomes a huge success (as I hope it will!).

Anyway, those are my 2¢.

 

[veryrarium]

I can't speak for the mass of potential customers, I stopped reading those YT comments after a few glances, so I speak for myself. Since anodizing isn't an option, the only reason I prefer aluminum over steel would be the weight. But which material is chosen for the exterior panels doesn't affect my decision to purchase the Cerberus. Capability and size are the utmost importance for me, weight is far less important. So Kimera can safely ignore my comment in their decision making

 

[jeshikat]

I think that even though aluminum construction/panels does not necessarily mean you'll get a higher quality product, I'd say that the association between aluminum and high quality PC cases is so strong in the mainstream PC building community that most people would indeed rather pay 10-15$ more for aluminum side/top/front panels (as some rude posts on Dmitry's video that said 249$ was too much for a steel case would indicate).

That's basically my thoughts on it.

Also, I'd like to ask something: would there be a way to include non-EMI filtered headphone and microphone jacks for negligible cost?

If there's one thing I've learned in this project, it's that there's no such thing as "negligible cost"

I really prefer the power button being centered, but that doesn't leave much room on either side for the front IO. The panel mount USB 3.0 is fine, but there aren't any off the shelf audio solutions that fit, so that's the main reason for the custom PCB. The EMI filtering was just a nice bonus.

So Kimera can safely ignore my comment in their decision making

Having no preference on panel material is useful to know too though. I should have added that as an option.

 

[Ceros_X]

I'm actually out of the country for a little over a week starting this Friday, doing some volunteer work abroad (with no phone/data connectivity whatsoever, unfortunately )

Next time try and get a T-Mobile prepaid, they have free international data roaming abroad.

 

[PNP]

Anyone have thoughts on steel vs aluminum for the exterior panels? Still powder-coated.

It'd be a bit more expensive but I wonder if that'd help justify the price to those who equate aluminum to quality. Frame would still be steel.

Steel. Please. Also if the exterior panels are magnetic you can attach dust filters to the inside and reduce inference with screws while retaining a sleek appearance.

I recovered some high strength aluminum parts today that looked like the they'd been gnawed on by some sort of...I don't know, the alien from Alien. If I never see it used for structural applications ever again it'll be too soon.

 

[candyman]

All steel for me. Stell is what make Cerberus different from other cases: half steel and half aluminum would make it less desirable, according to me.

Plus, I wouldn't modify the top panel from its original design: I'd like to leave the holes in order to add the original input jacks as an option for interested people.

 

[candyman]

The first batch of Cerberus (the ones already made) will be available for sale?
It's not clear to me it the blue one has a matte finish or not.

 

[alamilla]

I have no preference as far as steel vs. aluminium is concerned.

(There's a strong chance I will be moving to the Caribbean for work later this year so I might lean towards aluminium as it fairs better in the salt air from my experience )

 

[Supercluster]

What would be the thickness of the aluminium panels and how would it affect the overall weight of the case?

 

[jeshikat]

Next time try and get a T-Mobile prepaid, they have free international data roaming abroad.

I believe the issue is he'll be in a rural area where there's no cell towers at all.

Plus, I wouldn't modify the top panel from its original design: I'd like to leave the holes in order to add the original input jacks as an option for interested people.

The current cutouts for the audio will only fit either the custom PCB or the panel mount jacks. The panel mount jacks don't actually work though so if we don't have the custom PCB there's no use for the cutouts.

The first batch of Cerberus (the ones already made) will be available for sale?

The prototypes mentioned in the survey would be for the next batch. Once the design is locked down, we need to make one last prototype to verify the changes and we could make extras for anyone interested. There are only 2 of the current prototypes, one is spoken for and the other I need for testing.

It's not clear to me it the blue one has a matte finish or not.

It'd be a fine textured powder coat like the other colors:

What would be the thickness of the aluminium panels and how would it affect the overall weight of the case?

~2mm and it'd lighten the case by ~20%.

 

[jtd871]

Well, the case I want to buy (not Cerberus) is uniquely small. Since I'm not willing to scratch build one myself, I'll happily pay a premium regardless of the material. You can't get one anyplace else, so the expectation by potential buyers of "Wal-Mart pricing" is completely unreasonable.

I am guessing Cerberus requires a certain amount of skilled human labor to produce. My company owns a certified metal fabrication shop (aluminum, structural steel) that also supports our heavy equipment (piling leads, auger strings). We normally estimate fab labor at $40-$50 per hour (this includes a certain amount of shop overhead and consumables). I can't imagine that Sliger's rates are that much less expensive. So I can easily understand a niche, and frankly, unique product costing ~$250 per unit. I'm actually impressed you have the unit cost down that much on your $150,000 goal.

 

[Vidjagames72]

I agree with what some of the people on here are saying, regardless of the case material I want this case and will buy it anyway.

I voted for steel in that thing but if you can see the names of people when you look through the results you can disregard the vote for steel from Jesse Jiron.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Next time try and get a T-Mobile prepaid, they have free international data roaming abroad.

I believe the issue is he'll be in a rural area where there's no cell towers at all.

Pretty much. It will be interesting to see what transpires for KI while I'm away... And this will be among the largest stretches of time I've had no connectivity for a very long while.

Steel. Please. Also if the exterior panels are magnetic you can attach dust filters to the inside and reduce inference with screws while retaining a sleek appearance.

All steel for me. Steel is what make Cerberus different from other cases: half steel and half aluminum would make it less desirable, according to me.

To be clear, the internal frame would still be steel (we want the rigidity, and it lets folks use magnetic dust filters). Although aluminum is more expensive and not as durable as steel panels, it does reduce Cerberus' weight a pretty significant amount .

I've personally felt a bit conflicted about this decision because I think a lot of the demand for aluminum panels is based on a pretty inaccurate sentiment that use of aluminum is consequentially equal to higher quality. And that really has nothing to do with which is more useful, provides better utility, etc. A shoddily-built aluminum case is not intrinsically better in any meaningful way than a well-built steel one, and the material choice in this specific regard has everything to do with what material characteristics you want.

We went with steel for the panels not because it was cheaper, but because it's much more durable, which allowed us to make the panels thinner and provide a proverbial tank of an enclosure - a really nice attribute when carrying Cerberus around is a big use case. We felt that aluminum's higher cost and reduced durability weren't worth the weight savings in comparison, and I still feel that such is the case.

The thing is, we want customer's perceptions of quality to match the actual quality of Cerberus, and perception counts for a lot in terms of how much someone gets out of a product. Furthermore, if moving to aluminum means there are lots of people that now think Cerberus is worth getting, well, everyone wins from that.

I'm curious, is there anyone that would consider aluminum a deal-breaker assuming that the price of Cerberus doesn't increase?

 

[iFreilicht]

Anyone have thoughts on steel vs aluminum for the exterior panels? Still powder-coated.

It'd be a bit more expensive but I wonder if that'd help justify the price to those who equate aluminum to quality. Frame would still be steel.

Personally I feel like Aluminium is just nicer to look at, especially when anodized or brushed. It has a semi-natural look to it and with the visible direction of the grain it somewhat reminds me of wood.
I'd say Aluminium is the nicer matrial for exterior panels, steel is better for interior, just because of the amazing strength it gives.

It's losing that feel though once you powder-coat it, though.

~2mm and it'd lighten the case by ~20%.

Well if that's not an argument for aluminium I don't know what is. 2mm thick panels are very rigid, and 20% less weight is extremely significant.

 

[Phuncz]

While I would like this project not to be another aluminium case, I do see why you'd consider to go that way.
On the other hand, making another quality case in aluminium instead of steel will only keep reinforcing this incorrect assumption.

If anything, I'd like to see atleast the chassis remain steel and use aluminium for the panels. Or offer a "steel upgrade" if possible, even though it would be cheaper, it could offset the lower MOQ.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Personally I feel like Aluminium is just nicer to look at, especially when anodized or brushed. It has a semi-natural look to it and with the visible direction of the grain it somewhat reminds me of wood.
I'd say Aluminium is the nicer matrial for exterior panels, steel is better for interior, just because of the amazing strength it gives.

It's losing that feel though once you powder-coat it, though.

No matter what metal we use, we'd be powder-coating it. The pins for the clip-and-pin system leave surface abrasions on the outside of the panels that are unsightly, which would ruin the look of an anodized panel, but (obviously) doesn't matter if they're painted over. Plus, the industrial powder coat we've selected is substantially more durable and practical than anodized finishes, which also plays into the portability use case.

2mm thick panels are very rigid, and 20% less weight is extremely significant.

20% weight loss is a noticeable reduction. Cerberus is heavy for it's size. Ironically, though, Cerberus's volume would go up a smidgen with this sort of change - we might have to bump the digit after the decimal up by one, though I haven't checked yet.

While I would like this project not to be another aluminium case, I do see why you'd consider to go that way.
On the other hand, making another quality case in aluminium instead of steel will only keep reinforcing this incorrect assumption.

I mean, I don't really care about either of those points, I just want the case to be the best it can be for people who want it. If that's the case with aluminum panels, then great - there are actual, measurable benefits to using thicker aluminum panels over steel ones, and those could matter more. My concern is simply that a popular argument for aluminum, in my view, is disconnected from any real tangible benefit to end users. There's a certain discomfort I have with changes to Cerberus that people think are improvements, when they aren't.

If anything, I'd like to see at least the chassis remain steel and use aluminium for the panels. Or offer a "steel upgrade" if possible, even though it would be cheaper, it could offset the lower MOQ.

The panels may change, but we have no intention presently to change the frame from steel. We like the rigidity, like that it enables use of magnetic filters, and incorporating aluminum panels would sufficiently address material/weight concerns in all likelihood.

Offering a "steel" or some such material upgrade isn't something we're privy to doing given the complexity and cost of offering that, though. Our choice of materials will apply to everyone, same as before.

 

[jrronimo]

Anyone have thoughts on steel vs aluminum for the exterior panels? Still powder-coated.

It'd be a bit more expensive but I wonder if that'd help justify the price to those who equate aluminum to quality. Frame would still be steel.

I'm curious, is there anyone that would consider aluminum a deal-breaker assuming that the price of Cerberus doesn't increase?

That sort of hits it on the head for me -- I don't think I care whether the panels are steel or aluminum; at this point in time, the price is more of a consideration to me than anything.

Aluminum case panels feel usually easy to dent/scratch/warp to me, but I *definitely* like that they're lighter -- I want the Cerberus for LAN parties after all. I'm 100% confident that the case will be gorgeous regardless of material... so do whatever's cheaper, KI. Just my opinion.

 

[vpr]

I held off on answering that survey for a couple days because I felt the answers didn't quite fit what I wanted to say. Example for the clips or screws question, I don't really care one way or the other but was forced into selecting one or the other. Same with the steel vs aluminum question. I don't really care either way on both those issues, just that the quality of either is up to snuff. Which, I don't think will be a problem given your track record in design.

Would using screws instead of the tool-less clips also help reduce costs? The description for that question didn't really state one way or the other.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

I held off on answering that survey for a couple days because I felt the answers didn't quite fit what I wanted to say. Example for the clips or screws question, I don't really care one way or the other but was forced into selecting one or the other. Same with the steel vs aluminum question. I don't really care either way on both those issues, just that the quality of either is up to snuff. Which, I don't think will be a problem given your track record in design.

Yes, we should have provided those options in the survey I suspect that a good chunk of people are indifferent about some of them.

Would using screws instead of the tool-less clips also help reduce costs? The description for that question didn't really state one way or the other.

It should, the clips aren't cheap! The negative would be that you'd lose toolless removal, and you'd have the exposed screws along the exterior of the panels.

 

[jrronimo]

I definitely like the idea of the toolless assembly and I think it gives a cleaner look. I selected the 'Clips' option in the survey, but now that I think about it, the real interesting feature of the case is its size, so I'd probably be fine with screws.