Chimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

[iFreilicht]

We'll probably have to drop the front audio. The power cord will have to be reworked, the MOQ for the low-profile ones like the NCASE uses is 1000 units.

Did the front audio include all the fancy EMI filtering stuff? Either way, that seems like a very effective way to drop the cost. Front USB is a must, but at least those cables can be bought pre-manufactured in relatively low quantities.

The first thing I think about in terms of the power cord is that the ATX version doesn't need it. It would be a shame if SFX in the front would become the optional configuration, but it seems to be something to think about. If the recommended configuration is to use an AIO for the CPU anyway, it doesn't really matter whether the PSU sits in the front or at the side, right?

Cerberus is made of many parts - most enclosures only have a few discrete parts that come together, but Cerberus has more than this. Each additional part introduces compounding complexity and cost

Couldn't you use that to your advantage by shipping the case in a disassembled state? That would reduce shipping costs massively, or at least I'd hope so.

The toolless panel system is much more expensive than relying on a more traditional system.

That, too, seems like something you could quite easily change to reduce cost. Just using a screw for every push-pin you currently have would be the easiest and least pretty solution. Maybe you could go back to the system Nova-00 used?

 

[tedlas]

Did the front audio include all the fancy EMI filtering stuff?

I found that a very attractive feature and I was really interested in it.

Maybe move the usb to one side and audio to the other, like on the define r5?
Or even buy the assemblies in quantity from such a manufacturer?

shipping the case in a disassembled state

+1

The toolless panel system is much more expensive than relying on a more traditional system.

Maybe moving to plastic hardware? it would be easier to remove and replace the panels that way. Or not.

US manufacturing provides the highest quality and lowest defect rate, but you pay for it.

Would having say 5-10% more cases to use as replacements and moving production elsewhere be less expensive than manufacturing in the US?

I'd rather have the production moved than have features removed.

 

[veryrarium]

A few reasons that I can recall from the top of my head:

1. US manufacturing provides the highest quality and lowest defect rate, but you pay for it.
2. Cerberus is made of many parts - most enclosures only have a few discrete parts that come together, but Cerberus has more than this. Each additional part introduces compounding complexity and cost.
3. The toolless panel system is much more expensive than relying on a more traditional system.
4. Shipping from the US to Asia/Europe is much more expensive than vice versa, or from anywhere in Asia/Europe to anywhere else.

There are others, but those are among the most significant!

Regarding #3: Dmitry@HardwareCanucks was having a hard time detaching each panel in his video and at that time I was thinking maybe adopting the typical non-fancy slide-the-side-panel-into-the-hooks-and-tighten-thrumb-screws-on-the-back mechanism may please more people with its relative ease/free of stress, but now wouldn't it be better cost-wise as well?

 

[veryrarium]

The first thing I think about in terms of the power cord is that the ATX version doesn't need it. It would be a shame if SFX in the front would become the optional configuration, but it seems to be something to think about. If the recommended configuration is to use an AIO for the CPU anyway, it doesn't really matter whether the PSU sits in the front or at the side, right?

I agree with your observation/suggestion at this point as I've read how people including Aiboh have been discussing their possible cooling configs, and I probably won't use the SFX bracket for my setup, but I still need the side hinged bracket (which is to be used with SFX config by the current design) and hope Aiboh and PP don't decide to get rid of the side bracket.

Couldn't you use that to your advantage by shipping the case in a disassembled state? That would reduce shipping costs massively, or at least I'd hope so.

The rear, right, and front faces of the internal frame are formed from a single piece by only bending it into U-shape and this still determines the package size, no? Or maybe a revision to make these three sides separate?

That, too, seems like something you could quite easily change to reduce cost. Just using a screw for every push-pin you currently have would be the easiest and least pretty solution. Maybe you could go back to the system Nova-00 used?

Replacing every single pin with a screw, I hope not (even with thumb screws.) Lian-Li PC-Q11 was like that and I hated the cumbersomeness.

 

[PNP]

1. US manufacturing provides the highest quality and lowest defect rate, but you pay for it.

I think it's more that you get what you pay for, and that's true anywhere. Yeah, you can get something made in a sweatshop somewhere on the outskirts of Guangzhou or at a Byelorussian tractor factory, but you can also find excellent manufacturing too, sometimes down the same road. I don't blame you for going domestic though, because timezone and language differences are a PITA to deal with (speaking as someone who works for the US manufacturing arm of a large multinational corporation with an overseas headquarters, late night conference calls suuuuuck). Just remember that US manufacturing produced both the Chevrolet Chevette and the Saturn V.

 

[jeshikat]

Did the front audio include all the fancy EMI filtering stuff?

Yes.

It would be a shame if SFX in the front would become the optional configuration, but it seems to be something to think about. If the recommended configuration is to use an AIO for the CPU anyway, it doesn't really matter whether the PSU sits in the front or at the side, right?

An AIO on the side bracket is my recommendation for ease of access to the motherboard. An ATX PSU makes working in the case a pain so I don't recommend it unless it's needed for either wattage or mounting stuff to the front.

Couldn't you use that to your advantage by shipping the case in a disassembled state? That would reduce shipping costs massively, or at least I'd hope so.

The middle frame section is one piece so shipping it disassembled won't save space.

Maybe you could go back to the system Nova-00 used?

The panels on Nova-00 are also difficult to remove since not everything lines up quite right. This can be addressed with tweaking but any misalignment of the frame will result in the same issue.

Maybe move the usb to one side and audio to the other, like on the define r5?
Or even buy the assemblies in quantity from such a manufacturer?

The problem is 100 units is too many to order as spare parts from a case manufacturer but too few to get custom-made.

Maybe moving to plastic hardware? it would be easier to remove and replace the panels that way. Or not.

I haven't been able to find plastic clips with matching metal studs available anywhere here.

Would having say 5-10% more cases to use as replacements and moving production elsewhere be less expensive than manufacturing in the US?

Manufacturing in China will certainly be cheaper per unit with a decent size run. But selecting and vetting a manufacturer, and then getting prototypes made and tested could easily take 6-12 months. This project has gone on long enough, so like we've said, going overseas is a last resort.

Dmitry@HardwareCanucks was having a hard time detaching each panel in his video and at that time I was thinking maybe adopting the typical non-fancy slide-the-side-panel-into-the-hooks-and-tighten-thrumb-screws-on-the-back mechanism may please more people with its relative ease/free of stress, but now wouldn't it be better cost-wise as well?

The plan is to use the weaker clips for the production version. So it won't be as difficult to remove the panels. But I'd like to avoid the sliding hook panels because there's very little room on the frame rear for the screws that'd be needed for the side panels. Going to the tool-less panels was partly to get around that issue.

Yeah, you can get something made in a sweatshop somewhere on the outskirts of Guangzhou or at a Byelorussian tractor factory, but you can also find excellent manufacturing too

Absolutely, China is very capable of making high quality parts.

Finding a Chinese factory who can consistently produce quality work without us having to visit the factory every week will be the tricky part.

 

[candyman]

To clarify, a production of a limited batch of 150/200 unit (we are 175 backers, right know) with all the original features planned (less the campaign fees) how much would cost, right know? I guess more than $250 but... how much more?

 

[Supercluster]

To clarify, a production of a limited batch of 150/200 unit (we are 175 backers, right know) with all the original features planned (less the campaign fees) how much would cost, right know? I guess more than $250 but... how much more?

175 in total but 21 less for the actual case.

 

[jeshikat]

To clarify, a production of a limited batch of 150/200 unit (we are 175 backers, right know) with all the original features planned (less the campaign fees) how much would cost, right know? I guess more than $250 but... how much more?

I'm not sure, I don't have a full set of quotes at that order quantity.

 

[candyman]

I think that people interested on the project love the unique features of Cerberus (steel, minimalistic design...) and would agree to pay a little more for its uniqueness. Collecting money on pre-order (no risks for you) and the release a Limited Edition of 100 numbered pieces at a reasonable price, could be a solution.

Do not misunderstand me, I agree that $250 for a computer case are a lot of money and I know you can't rise it too much, but I think it would be a pity to kill this project or modifying it. If you move to aluminum&ATX the competitors are many.

Obviously, if you manage to maintain the same project with only few renounces (Audio jacks...) into the original price range is better.

 

[Phuncz]

The panels on Nova-00 are also difficult to remove since not everything lines up quite right. This can be addressed with tweaking but any misalignment of the frame will result in the same issue.

I think you can solve this for the side-panels by having two screws on the backside and a wedge on the front. But would it be much cheaper, that's a question I can't answer.

Even though I was opposed to having no front-panel audio on this case, if it considerably shaves costs for 100-200 MOQ and allow this project to come full-circle, I'd have no issues with that personally. The discussion about it innitially was divided and I would think I'm not the only one that would rather have a Cerberus without FP-audio than no Cerberus at all.

 

[iFreilicht]

Thanks for the detailed answers!

The middle frame section is one piece so shipping it disassembled won't save space.

I was under the impression that you found a way to get countersunk screws small enough to fit underneath the side panels and that you actually used those, so wouldn't it be possible to make the frame from four pieces?

 

[Anthony]

I for one, am pretty much willing to pay any price to get my hands on this case. Then again, I'm not so sure how many of us are wasting as much money as I am for a rig to last the next several years . I adore the design more than anything else that I've seen in market. Perfectly minimal and functional in every way.

 

[jeshikat]

I think that people interested on the project love the unique features of Cerberus (steel, minimalistic design...) and would agree to pay a little more for its uniqueness.

True, but not everyone feels that way so we'll have to strike a balance.

I think you can solve this for the side-panels by having two screws on the backside and a wedge on the front. But would it be much cheaper, that's a question I can't answer.

That doesn't work very well for Cerberus. The way the front edge of the panel and the way the section of the frame where it attaches to is formed on most cases is only possible through stamping.

Jonsbo does it an interesting way where they have studs on the frame that hook into holes on the front lip of the side panel: http://www.jonsbo.com/en/images/g108/6.jpg

But they have to weld an insert to the frame since they can't put a flange on the frame edge since it would get in the way of the panel. Welding is expensive though.

I was under the impression that you found a way to get countersunk screws small enough to fit underneath the side panels and that you actually used those, so wouldn't it be possible to make the frame from four pieces?

M3 screws aren't readily available in a shallow enough countersink but #4-40 are.

Splitting up the frame isn't something we'll consider for Cerberus. It's weaker, more expensive (3 parts instead of 1), and doesn't really make the box that much smaller. The height and depth are dictated by the side panels, so the only savings would be the box width. And I'm not sure if it'll really save much there since the pieces will need to be separated from each other so they don't scratch each other as the box bounces around in shipping.

 

[tedlas]

:'(

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Glancing back, and sprinting forward

Hey everyone,

Although it's been clear for a while that we were unlikely to reach our goal, we've finally hit our deadline, and we've indeed found ourselves reaching around a third of the way home, both in terms of dollars and total units.

We knew going into this campaign that reaching $150,000 would be ambitious - and indeed it seems that it was a bit too ambitious! - but failing to get there is certainly a bummer, and we'll be doing a post-mortem of sorts to see what we could have done to run a better campaign, including the obvious (cost, shipping) and the more subtle (communication channels, timing of announcements). Our work has been one of transparency, with the hopes of helping other creators follow in our footsteps, so critically analyzing our work and learning from our mistakes is an important part of the campaign, successful or not. I think a lot of you have found that aspect of things interesting, and our dissection of it doesn't end today

It's late on the east coast, and James and I both have work in the morning, so I'll save a more thorough update for the weekend. But I just wanted to say two things real quick, since they're important:

• The failure of the Kickstarter is not the end of Cerberus! We've been discussing on the forums for some time what will happen if our funding goal isn't met, and James and I are in the process of exploring options that will make Cerberus available to the ~150+ backers who remain interested in the enclosure. Although we'll have some challenges getting manufacturing to work at that level of volume, we have a few avenues to cut expenses, and feel confident that there's a pathway to getting the case in the hands of those who want it (ourselves included)!
• Your support has been phenomenal. Literally minutes after the campaign ended, we've gotten a burst of messages from a diverse range of people and even businesses, all indicating their interest, offering to help, and providing encouragement and support. As we've said from the very beginning of this project, our work is intended to capture interest and advocate for our philosophy of SFF and build design, as much as it's meant to be a commercial venture. In that regard we consider the campaign to be really successful. This community is awesome, and we're humbled that a lot of people have really gone out of their way throughout this process to support us.

Although we haven't yet realized our goal of getting our first case to enthusiasts, we've learned a heck of a lot, and we're actually pretty excited about what's next. I know that many of you may be disappointed in this outcome in the short term, and the community as a whole will (and should!) have healthy discussion and discourse with respect to the substantiveness and value of our creation, and of our work to promote it... but as designers, our work is never truly done, and the failure of the campaign is also an invitation to us to continue to iterate, and refine, and perfect. To design towards the audience that we know is invested in Cerberus, and to account for the specific facets of the enclosure that swayed people away.

All of that is to everyone's benefit, even if it comes as the result of the outcome we weren't hoping to arrive at. It will make us better designers, and better able to articulate our vision. And it will make Cerberus a better enclosure for enthusiasts.

---

Anyways, look forward to more updates this weekend, and to our backers: expect messages specific to your tiers in the coming days, as we work towards refining Cerberus further and getting our case in your hands!

Thanks all,

-Joshua Ramirez, Co-founder, Kimera Industries

 

[Phuncz]

While this is a sad day, I'm still hopeful for the Cerberus. I'm hoping that the final product will still remain a steel case, built in the US, with inifinity vents. And that sweet juicy red Habanero color <3

 

[shawnbeonkey]

Sad day for sure. It's a bummer to hear that front audio will likely be cut as that's something I need, but understandable as you guys need to get this out to the masses in the most viable way possible. I'll still be keeping up with Cerberus news going forward, and best of luck to Kimera and all your future endeavors.

 

[Phuncz]

While some features will be cut, we could possibly help James and Joshua figure out ways so it's not permanently gone. For instance, losing the FP audio is a bummer for me too, but maybe people can individually source a good quality OEM part that the case has some compatibility with and purchase those for people that want them, moving the cost to an option instead of as-standard.

 

[jeshikat]

Here's the clearance for the front IO:

Realistically there needs to be a few mm clearance on either side to make sure it doesn't interfere with the front panel or power button though.