Chimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

[tedlas]

Congrats on 50k! 1/3 of the way through! 3 days to make 100k!

 

[candyman]

I've read many interesting posts in the thread.
I've known the Cerberus Project only 5 days ago after seeing video on YouTube: I've made my pledge the same day.
So, we lack some advertising for sure. The 50K goal isn't a bad one: the quite expensive price ($250) and, mainly, the high shipping costs for EU customers have vwthout doubt stopped many potential customers from making their offer.
Anyway I don't think that reducing the quality (aluminum) or moving the production elsewhere could help the project: I guess that people interested on Cerberus are attracted by the exclusivity of an high quality product produced in small quantity and made in USA.
I think that a limited production batch of 150/200 pieces could be the solution.
I'd add a rough unit that customers could paint by themselves.

 

[MJVR1]

Just saw that Hardware Canucks released a video on this case. Congrats! It's awesome to see someone finally build a space efficient case in the maTX form factor.

 

[tedlas]

Anyway I don't think that reducing the quality (aluminum) or moving the production elsewhere could help the project: I guess that people interested on Cerberus are attracted by the exclusivity of an high quality product produced in small quantity and made in USA.

If the batch is smaller, the price would rise even more, and I wouldn't/can't pay more for this. My opinion is that they should move the production and make a realationship with a manufacturer to create the same product at a less expensive price, 150-200 at most. I think that the number of pledged would increase dramatically as it becomes more competitive with the other cases on the market, smaller or not.

Or they can do both, manufacture them in the us for those that want to pay, and elsewhere that can't afford to pay.

Or open source the cads

 

[confusis]

Or, I hate to say it, licence the design to say Corsair or Silverstone..

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

I do think that crowdfunding platforms do have a vested interest in not checking whether something is actually possible, as they will gain money if the project is backed, but in the end it's always the backers responsibility to make sure something will be possible.

I'm not so sure. If I ran a crowdfunding platform, I'd probably employ a light-touch moderation system like Kickstarter does to keep bad projects down to a minimum. That's less income in the short term, but goes a long way towards building confidence (and thus demand) on the part of backers in the long term.

Congrats on 50k! 1/3 of the way through! 3 days to make 100k!

Miracles can happen!

So, we lack some advertising for sure. The 50K goal isn't a bad one: the quite expensive price ($250) and, mainly, the high shipping costs for EU customers have vwthout doubt stopped many potential customers from making their offer.
Anyway I don't think that reducing the quality (aluminum) or moving the production elsewhere could help the project: I guess that people interested on Cerberus are attracted by the exclusivity of an high quality product produced in small quantity and made in USA.
I think that a limited production batch of 150/200 pieces could be the solution.

I personally would like to do this even if we also manufacture elsewhere down the line.

If the batch is smaller, the price would rise even more, and I wouldn't/can't pay more for this

We'd probably try to refactor the design such that 100-200 cases is feasible at the same price, while trying to keep the case close to the current design. I'm not sure how feasible that is, as we haven't explored that option thoroughly, but I think it's within our capabilities.

My opinion is that they should move the production and make a realationship with a manufacturer to create the same product at a less expensive price, 150-200 at most. I think that the number of pledged would increase dramatically as it becomes more competitive with the other cases on the market, smaller or not.

So, bear in mind that the unit cost is just the beginning. Let's pretend that out current manufacturer, at 500 units, charges us $220 per unit (they don't, but bear with me). Well, we also have to pay $7.50 to process payments, $12.50 to cover the KS fees, a few thousand to make extra units/parts in case of defective units, a few hundred for the website and graphics we've used, and then we need to recoup the thousands sunk into getting the prototypes.

All of a sudden, we're well in the red if we sell 500 units at $249. And that assumes that everything goes perfect, and there aren't unexpected costs, or a design defect.

Or they can do both, manufacture them in the us for those that want to pay, and elsewhere that can't afford to pay.

As I said before, this would be ideal in my view, personally, but I also selfishly want a US-made Cerberus, so there's that

Or, I hate to say it, licence the design to say Corsair or Silverstone..

Honestly, I personally would find doing this very attractive. Cerberus is far, far better quality than anything either company makes, but if they felt that thousands or (potentially) tens of thousands would want this at 1/3 or 1/2 the price... I mean, we could make the really nice ones for those who want it, and we could bring our philosophy to the mass market through a brand people trust. And we could focus on designing, which is the part we enjoy the most and are the most skilled at.

Is it ideal? No, since we lose a lot of control. But it would mean our work has a huge impact. And we care about that a lot.

 

[jsco]

count me in as one person who would pay more to have this case, if that's what it takes to do a small run.

 

[jeshikat]

Or, I hate to say it, licence the design to say Corsair or Silverstone..

Corsair and SilverStone both have engineers plenty capable of designing a case like Cerberus if they wanted. But they don't see the market for it hence why I had to design one myself.

They're both bringing to market high-wattage SFX/SFX-L power supplies though so maybe that will change in the coming years.

 

[PNP]

They're both bringing to market high-wattage SFX/SFX-L power supplies though so maybe that will change in the coming years.

There are also many technologies in the pipe for moving everything back onto the motherboard. Some day will herald the return of the single-board computer to general usage.

 

[HansWursT619]

What do you think about a survey after the kickstarter campaign to determine:
1. Which of the current features they don't want to cut at all (US manufacturing, steel, modular mounting system etc).
2. What features is missing/what was the major reason not to back the project (price, no aluminium, no dustfilters etc).

I think this would be necessary to tackle a potential redesign, to either allow a smaller batch or a lower the price.

On this part I would be very interested in your thoughts on lowering the price. What parts make the case expensive?
There is US manufacturing, but feature wise. What feature/design aspect would cut the cost if removed? (even if you don't consider cutting the feature)

I for example, don't care about US manufacturing, although I see how overseas manufacturing is harder to control.
Steel or Aluminium doesn't bother me either, although steel would be nice for magnetic fan filters.

Speaking of fan filters, a lot of people requested those. Maybe its possible to contact http://www.demcifilter.com/ and create fan filters for the case before hand. They don't need to be included in the price, but you can link people to the demcifilter store and show them a design for fitting filters exist, without everyone having to contact demcifilter themselves.

 

[jeshikat]

What do you think about a survey after the kickstarter campaign to determine

Yup, that's the plan.

Maybe its possible to contact http://www.demcifilter.com/ and create fan filters for the case before hand.

This too

What parts make the case expensive?

The custom front audio and internal power cord will be problems at lower order quantities.

 

[Commissariat]

Yup, that's the plan.



This too



The custom front audio and internal power cord will be problems at lower order quantities.

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

Aiboh, when you say that the internal power cord/front audio will be a problem at a lower order quantity, do you mean you'll have to go with a different one (or the same one at a higher price-per-unit) or that you won't be able to ship Cerberus with those features at all if you don't meet the MOQ?

 

[Phuncz]

The custom front audio and internal power cord will be problems at lower order quantities.

Mine can come without those, I'll fix them ay-ohs meself brother, aight. And I got a few left-over power-cords from my Ncase M1
Maybe those items could become a crowd-sourced project, with 3D printing facilities and whatnot.

 

[jeshikat]

We'll probably have to drop the front audio. The power cord will have to be reworked, the MOQ for the low-profile ones like the NCASE uses is 1000 units.

There's an alternative I have in mind but it's right-angle instead of left-angle. The angle isn't ideal for the SilverStone units but it's actually better for the new Corsair SFX units. It's also taller so the case height may have to increase a bit.

 

[Commissariat]

We'll probably have to drop the front audio. The power cord will have to be reworked, the MOQ for the low-profile ones like the NCASE uses is 1000 units.

There's an alternative I have in mind but it's right-angle instead of left-angle. The angle isn't ideal for the SilverStone units but it's actually better for the new Corsair SFX units. It's also taller so the case height may have to increase a bit.

What if you ordered the full 1000 unit MOQ even with a lower number of units sold? Would that increase the total cost of each case significantly?

 

[Phuncz]

Or just open an eBay store for a while, those cables are probably in demand. If it's the same one that Ncase used, be wary of quality issues. The original one from the v1 worked flawlessly, but the one sold seperately later (v3 launch I believe) needed to be replaced two times because it had faulty connections in the PSU connector. I still have these I believe if you would need testing or measuring.

 

[jeshikat]

Would that increase the total cost of each case significantly?

Yes.

Or just open an eBay store for a while, those cables are probably in demand.

We could probably sell a few but 900? I doubt it.

If it's the same one that Ncase used, be wary of quality issues.

It's the same one. Necere mentioned they did see a slightly higher failure rate with the newer cords but we'd just have to deal with it if we went that route. Getting a custom-molded connector made isn't feasible at 500 units so it definitely isn't feasible at 100.

 

[candyman]

I wouldn't touch anything. A second Kickstarter campaign isn't an option?
Removing the custom front audio would change the design of the top panel?
We would get the original case without the input jacks?

 

[QinX]

I wouldn't touch anything. A second Kickstarter campaign isn't an option?
Removing the custom front audio would change the design of the top panel?
We would get the original case without the input jacks?

Is it even allowed to rerun a kickstarter without some major changes in the goals/tiers/product, I assume not.

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

A second Kickstarter campaign isn't an option?

Is it even allowed to rerun a kickstarter without some major changes in the goals/tiers/product, I assume not.

We could run it again, with changes, that's been done before. I personally would lean towards not doing so, however, because using Kickstarter is very expensive. Each case is effectively ~$13 more expensive (or more, depending on options) wholly because of their fees.

That cost is worthwhile to build trust and get visibility, but we already have that now. Forgoing KS means we don't have to find an additional $13+ in savings through compromises to manufacturing and design.

Removing the custom front audio would change the design of the top panel?

Yes, but only insofar that it would no longer have cutouts for audio. We might also bring the USB ports closer to the power button, but that's an aesthetic choice more than an engineering or functional one.

We would get the original case without the input jacks?

It will be really hard for us to provide audio I/O given the expense of doing it for just 100-200 units. The cost-benefit would be hard to defend.

What parts make the case expensive?
There is US manufacturing, but feature wise.

I for example, don't care about US manufacturing, although I see how overseas manufacturing is harder to control.
Steel or Aluminium doesn't bother me either, although steel would be nice for magnetic fan filters.

A few reasons that I can recall from the top of my head:

1. US manufacturing provides the highest quality and lowest defect rate, but you pay for it.
2. Cerberus is made of many parts - most enclosures only have a few discrete parts that come together, but Cerberus has more than this. Each additional part introduces compounding complexity and cost.
3. The toolless panel system is much more expensive than relying on a more traditional system.
4. Shipping from the US to Asia/Europe is much more expensive than vice versa, or from anywhere in Asia/Europe to anywhere else.

There are others, but those are among the most significant!