Chimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

[Necere]

@KSliger I hate to be the specs police, but by god it still annoys me every time I see it: the volume for both the Cerberus and Cerberus X as listed on your site are less than they should be.

Cerberus:

Dimensions (HxWxD)

• 12.57" x 6.78" x 14.09"
• 319mm x 172mm x 358mm

Volume

• 18.725 Liters

The dimensions given for the Cerberus result in a volume of 19.6L, rather than the 18.725L listed.

Cerberus X:

Case Dimensions (HxWxD)

• 14.97" x 6.78" x 14.09" (counting feet and side panels)
• 380mm x 172mm x 358mm
• 14.17" x 6.44" x 12.99" (inside dimension)
• 359.92mm x 163.67mm x 330.17mm

Volume

• 19.43 Liters

For the Cerberus X, the first set of dimensions comes to 23.4L. The second set does result in the listed volume of 19.4L, but IMO it's quite misleading to use the inside volume, as no one else measures it this way. It's pretty clear also that this excludes the front panel, which itself encloses some space that should be counted. As a point of comparison, if I measured the M1 the same way it would only be 11.4L, rather than 12.6L (though this excludes the feet and non-enclosing panel extensions, which I think is a fair way to measure).

 

[confusis]

@Necere I agree, internal volume is just 'cheating'/ misleading. I'm also a fan of measurements declared excluding what they exclude. If someone is selling a case with a volume measurement excluding feet, declare it IIRC Bitfenix tried to market "Internal Volume" when they launched the Prodigy.

 

[KSliger]

@KSliger I hate to be the specs police, but by god it still annoys me every time I see it: the volume for both the Cerberus and Cerberus X as listed on your site are less than they should be.

Cerberus:


The dimensions given for the Cerberus result in a volume of 19.6L, rather than the 18.725L listed.

Cerberus X:


For the Cerberus X, the first set of dimensions comes to 23.4L. The second set does result in the listed volume of 19.4L, but IMO it's quite misleading to use the inside volume, as no one else measures it this way. It's pretty clear also that this excludes the front panel, which itself encloses some space that should be counted. As a point of comparison, if I measured the M1 the same way it would only be 11.4L, rather than 12.6L (though this excludes the feet and non-enclosing panel extensions, which I think is a fair way to measure).

@Necere I agree, internal volume is just 'cheating'/ misleading. I'm also a fan of measurements declared excluding what they exclude. If someone is selling a case with a volume measurement excluding feet, declare it IIRC Bitfenix tried to market "Internal Volume" when they launched the Prodigy.

Not a problem, fair to enforce common metrics.

Cerberus volume was calculated based on volume of the case to the OD of each face, excluding the feet.

The dimensions listed include the feet, but the volume calculation does not.

Cerberus internal dimensions would result in a volume of 16.22L.

Felt measuring OD without feet was a fair comparison to something like the Cyorig Taku or DSE Vertex case would be oversized based on its supporting base, or just in general to cases that use tiny feet because their airflow does not require a bottom intake.

However you're correct on Cerberus X, should be 22.4L when measured to OD less feet for volume.

I will correct some of the explanation on the pages for the dimensions and update them when I can.

 

[Necere]

Excluding feet is fine IMO. I guess the main point of contention I had was over not counting the front panel on the X.

What's going on with the 163 vs 172mm width BTW?

 

[KSliger]

Excluding feet is fine IMO. I guess the main point of contention I had was over not counting the front panel on the X.

Looked up / figured out what I did for volume on the X, does not include:

1. Front panel.

Not a usable plenum of the case, there's no cutouts to mount anything substantial between it and front of the chassis. Strictly for airflow and USB/ power switch.If it was designed to mount anything back there, it should count.

2. Thicker gauge of the panel material.

Since we upped to 2mm aluminum from .915mm steel, this was measured to ID of panels. Dimensions I calculated from do includes the panel float in the ball studs.

3. Non-enclosing flanges.

Side/top panel overhang on rear/bottom for prying panels on/off, flange on front for the USB/power switch, and card mount tab are not counted.

4. Feet.

Bothers me because Cerberus X could be under 19.6L without changing anything about the functionality, layout, and component compatibility by simply reducing the box to a unaesthetic rectangular box made of thin sheet, with all build-friendly features eliminated.

Also not sure I like establishing a hard SFF cutoff at 20L. I think it is poorly defined as well, particularly with cases that use external power bricks and external GPUs.

If your DC adapter is as big as an SFX power supply - why should this give you a smaller volume?

S4M is certainly SFF, but should a 19.99L Mini-ITX case with an eGPU and 2x 330W DC adapters be an SFF case?

Should a 23.4L EATX quad-SLI case with an ATX power supply not be SFF?

The intention, design, and compactness of internals of the case should matter more than volume if we're going to disqualify cases.

I don't think either the Ophion or QBX should qualify as SFF honestly, they're absolute units for what little goes in them, but they are <20L.

I'm going to leave it at 19.6L until something is established, because it is by all purposes of the loosely defined standards of "non-enclosing flanges and excludes feet" the case is 19.6L and is SFF.

@Necere I agree, internal volume is just 'cheating'/ misleading. I'm also a fan of measurements declared excluding what they exclude. If someone is selling a case with a volume measurement excluding feet, declare it IIRC Bitfenix tried to market "Internal Volume" when they launched the Prodigy.

Can you move this discussion?

I think it's a good topic that needs to be covered and fleshed out before accusations of cheating are levied, particularly when there are such loose and/or poorly defined rules.

 

[VegetableStu]

oh @QuantumBraced check this out, I think you might be in luck. inner dimensions says it's 330.17mm, not 329mm

 

[Ankacat]

Looked up / figured out what I did for volume on the X, does not include:

1. Front panel.

Not a usable plenum of the case, there's no cutouts to mount anything substantial between it and front of the chassis. Strictly for airflow and USB/ power switch.If it was designed to mount anything back there, it should count.

If the front panel in the Cerberus X has the same amount of space under it as does in the Cerberus, I'll have to disagree with this space being unusable. My Cerberus is still hosting a working optical drive up there and another possible use for that space could be for additional ports facing sideways in some Frankenstein-ish mount system; going without the SFX front mount opens up more of the cable cutout to the interior.

 

[TheHig]

Not a problem, fair to enforce common metrics.

Cerberus volume was calculated based on volume of the case to the OD of each face, excluding the feet.

The dimensions listed include the feet, but the volume calculation does not.

Cerberus internal dimensions would result in a volume of 16.22L.

Felt measuring OD without feet was a fair comparison to something like the Cyorig Taku or DSE Vertex case would be oversized based on its supporting base, or just in general to cases that use tiny feet because their airflow does not require a bottom intake.

However you're correct on Cerberus X, should be 22.4L when measured to OD less feet for volume.

I will correct some of the explanation on the pages for the dimensions and update them when I can.

Personally I like seeing both hard internal dimensions AND external dimensions listed.

One shows how much I have to work with component wise and the other shows how much space it will occupy once built.

What is and isn’t SFF is a great debate that rages on. Post the specs as accurately as possible and let the world decide if it’s SFF enough.

PS. The Prodigy is and was a SFF abomination... for instance. Lol

 

[sjug]

NewEgg in first week of October at latest, you might see them there before that depending on when our listing gets approved.

@KSliger Any updates on NewEgg carrying the case? We're in the end of the second week of October now and I don't see any listing?

 

[KSliger]

@KSliger Any updates on NewEgg carrying the case? We're in the end of the second week of October now and I don't see any listing?

We have to delay a bit, we ran out of handles due to a backlog of machining work. Will have handles in 2nd or 3rd week of November. Our shop and everyone in town is booked out 4+ months. Site will be updated shortly to advise the delay.

 

[fabio]

A small update, while preparing the first build log (I want to change few things, but I need to wait for example that noctua release the black chromax version of the slim fan)

The temp are under stress test and with all the panels on, no overclock: overclocking all core at 4.5ghz, the CPU temp goes at 85/90 degree.
The top Titan V run 5 degree higher, and I don't know if is better to watercool them. But I will use them for GPU rendering and CUDA job, so I don't know if is worth it.

The top Quadro is temporary (after I will put it in my small Dan Case system): I will wait november to evaluate if It will have sense to have a Quadro RTX 5000 to run Adobe Suite, Rhinoceros, Autocad and 3Ds Max, or buying a third Titan V to have more rough power.

The bottom fan are installed as intake, but as suggested by @MarcParis I think will be better as exhaust, because the GPU are heating a lot the air.

Soon a full build log!

PS: I've tried to switch off the Intel SSD Led, but even with the Intel support, seems that something doesn't work with the command line tool.

Enjoy the preview!

 

[CantingSoup]

Ok, just made a quick IMG to understand... Which one will you suggest of the following configuration, based on your experience?

While installing my ATX psu, I realized that my AIO tubes were extremely difficult to bend. With that being said, I have decided to go for a custom loop (setup #2) for my next build.

My questions are:
What are the best slim radiators to use (Black Ice)?
Can I do front 280 (push) + bottom 280 (push), or does it have to be bottom 240 (push)?
Is the Heatkiller Tube 100 D5 the best pump+res combo to use in this case?
Where is the best place to mount a fill and drain port?
What does it mean when it says fan inside/outside?

 

[fabio]

In bold my answer:

My questions are:
What are the best slim radiators to use (Black Ice)?
Or the Black Ice GTS, or the new XSPC TX are just 20.5mm
Can I do front 280 (push) + bottom 280 (push), or does it have to be bottom 240 (push)?
I suggest to stay with both 240, it will be easier for the cables behind the front one, but of course depends which MB you will use, ecc.
Is the Heatkiller Tube 100 D5 the best pump+res combo to use in this case?
Depends, where you will mount it? How many GPU you will have? After this answer, I can suggest you few things.
Where is the best place to mount a fill and drain port?
Fill from top of the reservoir for me, and drain in the bottom (check my build just posted)
What does it mean when it says fan inside/outside?
I mean with the fan facing the CPU (INSIDE) or the fan facing the exterior/side panel (OUTSIDE)

 

[CantingSoup]

In bold my answer:

My questions are:
What are the best slim radiators to use (Black Ice)?
Or the Black Ice GTS, or the new XSPC TX are just 20.5mm
Can I do front 280 (push) + bottom 280 (push), or does it have to be bottom 240 (push)?
I suggest to stay with both 240, it will be easier for the cables behind the front one, but of course depends which MB you will use, ecc.
Is the Heatkiller Tube 100 D5 the best pump+res combo to use in this case?
Depends, where you will mount it? How many GPU you will have? After this answer, I can suggest you few things.
Where is the best place to mount a fill and drain port?
Fill from top of the reservoir for me, and drain in the bottom (check my build just posted)
What does it mean when it says fan inside/outside?
I mean with the fan facing the CPU (INSIDE) or the fan facing the exterior/side panel (OUTSIDE)

I will mount it in the back from where the internal SFX psu used to be. I will have 2 GPUs for the loop. I was thinking of using the X399 Aorus Xtreme for this, but I could drop down to an ATX MB if makes things easier.

 

[fabio]

I will mount it in the back from where the internal SFX psu used to be. I will have 2 GPUs for the loop. I was thinking of using the X399 Aorus Xtreme for this, but I could drop down to an ATX MB if makes things easier.

So, If you mount the GPU in the 1st and 3rd x16 slot, there's not enough space to mount a D5 combo where do you want to mount it, apart going with a Swiftech Maelstrom 50 and the XSPC TX slim and a slim fan, otherwise the fittings will go against the PSU. I couldn't mount it because I have one SSD on the side bracket, so I had no space in between that and the ram. You should at a DDC combo, there are 3/4 options that fits! (DDC tank of Hetakillers, Tank Plus of bitspower, EK DDC 100, I think also the Alphacool Eisdecke reservoir DDC...)
And take a low profile ram, like the Corsair LPX. The G.Skill Trident Z in my case were going against the EK combo.

 

[CantingSoup]

So, If you mount the GPU in the 1st and 3rd x16 slot, there's not enough space to mount a D5 combo where do you want to mount it, apart going with a Swiftech Maelstrom 50 and the XSPC TX slim and a slim fan, otherwise the fittings will go against the PSU. I couldn't mount it because I have one SSD on the side bracket, so I had no space in between that and the ram. You should at a DDC combo, there are 3/4 options that fits! (DDC tank of Hetakillers, Tank Plus of bitspower, EK DDC 100, I think also the Alphacool Eisdecke reservoir DDC...)
And take a low profile ram, like the Corsair LPX. The G.Skill Trident Z in my case were going against the EK combo.

Are these the ones you're talking about?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/bitspower-bp-ddct2-cl-ddc-mini-water-tank-plus.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/watercool-ddc-tank-lt.html#Details
http://www.performance-pcs.com/watercool-ddc-tank-pro.html#Details
http://www.performance-pcs.com/watercool-ddc-tank.html#Details

I've also found some Corsair Vengeance LPX 4x8GB 4000MHz Samsung B-die ram and these radiators:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/blac...-stealth-u-flow-low-profile-radiator-red.html

 

[KSliger]

A small update, while preparing the first build log (I want to change few things, but I need to wait for example that noctua release the black chromax version of the slim fan)

The temp are under stress test and with all the panels on, no overclock: overclocking all core at 4.5ghz, the CPU temp goes at 85/90 degree.
The top Titan V run 5 degree higher, and I don't know if is better to watercool them. But I will use them for GPU rendering and CUDA job, so I don't know if is worth it.

The top Quadro is temporary (after I will put it in my small Dan Case system): I will wait november to evaluate if It will have sense to have a Quadro RTX 5000 to run Adobe Suite, Rhinoceros, Autocad and 3Ds Max, or buying a third Titan V to have more rough power.

The bottom fan are installed as intake, but as suggested by @MarcParis I think will be better as exhaust, because the GPU are heating a lot the air.

Soon a full build log!

PS: I've tried to switch off the Intel SSD Led, but even with the Intel support, seems that something doesn't work with the command line tool.

Enjoy the preview!

Look forward to the build log, beautiful work!

Speaking of builds accidentally found this video on YouTube - which one of you is this? Nice work.

 

[MarcParis]

In bold my answer:

My questions are:
What are the best slim radiators to use (Black Ice)?
Or the Black Ice GTS, or the new XSPC TX are just 20.5mm
Can I do front 280 (push) + bottom 280 (push), or does it have to be bottom 240 (push)?
I suggest to stay with both 240, it will be easier for the cables behind the front one, but of course depends which MB you will use, ecc.
Is the Heatkiller Tube 100 D5 the best pump+res combo to use in this case?
Depends, where you will mount it? How many GPU you will have? After this answer, I can suggest you few things.
Where is the best place to mount a fill and drain port?
Fill from top of the reservoir for me, and drain in the bottom (check my build just posted)
What does it mean when it says fan inside/outside?
I mean with the fan facing the CPU (INSIDE) or the fan facing the exterior/side panel (OUTSIDE)

Great build @fabio !
By definition your build is a true challenge to cool..

Black ICE GTS are best "slim" radiator for performance but they required a good washing and also high pressure fans (ie fans running at higher rpm)

I'm curious to see your setup with full exhaust setup.

 

[CantingSoup]

Great build @fabio !
By definition your build is a true challenge to cool..

Black ICE GTS are best "slim" radiator for performance but they required a good washing and also high pressure fans (ie fans running at higher rpm)

I'm curious to see your setup with full exhaust setup.

I like the red radiators so I go with red barrow fittings to match. Which high pressure fans would you suggest?

 

[MarcParis]

I like the red radiators so I go with red barrow fittings to match. Which high pressure fans would you suggest?

Simple :

• 120mm : Dark Side Gentle Typhoon 2150rpm or Noctua NF A12-25 or Vardar evo 2000rpm (but lower quality and tends to be noisier)
• 140mm : competition is low. Vardar is a choice by absence of true competition.