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Good news, seeing an SFX implementation. Sadly, development of other SFF PSU form factors is lagging what's been done for SFX.
[Aside] What are Silverstone doing with that many SFX PSUs in their range now? [/Aside]
Going back to the the original incarnation, the handle's been a bit diluted IM(v)HO in the remodel - it is integral and essential to the design nevertheless.
Really excited to see where this is going...may have to start up a secret Sideam fund
[Aside] What are Silverstone doing with that many SFX PSUs in their range now? [/Aside]
Going back to the the original incarnation, the handle's been a bit diluted IM(v)HO in the remodel - it is integral and essential to the design nevertheless.
Really excited to see where this is going...may have to start up a secret Sideam fund
Okay, so the clearance data from @K888D had me curious, so I felt like doing my own testing with my M1, 980 ti and Noctua NF-F12's
So the setup is like this.
A Gigabyte Extreme Gaming 980 ti @1430mhz laying on top of two Noctua NF-F12's .
The Noctuas are raised from the bottom with two Schyte slim fan frames (the fan it self is gone), so that everything is flush.
This works excellent in regards to temp/noise.
I did 3x15 minute runs per "height" in furmark since it gives a fairly stable temp when warmed up. I don't have the stuff to test at specific heights so the heights are a tad random, but it's still a proof of concept.
Ambient temp in the room throughout the testing was 19c and the fans where ran at 1230-35 RPM.
Here are the results from my testing.
Heatsink and fan setup
So the setup is like this.
A Gigabyte Extreme Gaming 980 ti @1430mhz laying on top of two Noctua NF-F12's .
The Noctuas are raised from the bottom with two Schyte slim fan frames (the fan it self is gone), so that everything is flush.
This works excellent in regards to temp/noise.
I did 3x15 minute runs per "height" in furmark since it gives a fairly stable temp when warmed up. I don't have the stuff to test at specific heights so the heights are a tad random, but it's still a proof of concept.
Ambient temp in the room throughout the testing was 19c and the fans where ran at 1230-35 RPM.
Here are the results from my testing.
Heatsink and fan setup
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Interesting results, thanks for taking your time in researching this ! It's a little confusing that the graph is not "to scale", as it's only about 15% difference between the best and worst value though the graph seems to think it's a huge difference. I'm curious how much the added fan frames have an influence in the numbers, and if fans with a lower static pressure will benefit even more.
Good thing you pointed that out. Changed the scaling to reflect it better.
In my experience swapping the fan and frame makes no noticeable difference. I haven't tested it, but the temps and fan rpm usually stay the same regardless.
If interested, heres my testing regarding orientations and temps.
I've read people complain about the sturdiness of those Prodigy handles. While they might look better (depends on the person), they do require you to use two hands to carry it around. Considering we strive for efficiency constantly, there is no need for an SFF case to use two arms when one will do the job
Though for bottom clearance, it does work out well.
Though for bottom clearance, it does work out well.
Am following this thread and realised that no one raised handles like the bitfenix prodigy
which IMO looks nicer then a luggage handle and much stronger. I would expect it to be more expensive tho
No one?
Ofcourse people like that design. The G5 Mac pro is iconic with it's design, and while two handles work well for a big tower pc (weight), they are not needed for an ultra compact SFF case, and it adds tremendous bulk for what it is - handles.
I'd heard bad reports all round on the strength (or lack of...) on the Prodigy 'handles' too.
Mac Pro in Alu is a lovely beast in engineering and materials terms, they had been making cases with handles for 2 generations previously; all the way from the blue/white G3 towers, through the Quicksilver and MDD G4 towers, before going Alu.
Again, I'd put my vote in for a decent and well engineered in line 'suitcase' handle arrangement.
Maybe there could be a second sidearm variant with a solid top cover that can be used if a handle isn't fitted to the top structural rail underneath.
Looking back at the original concept, the handle has been watered down a bit already IMHO.
The Ncase is there for fixed or bag carry setups, remember that Sidearm(d) was created as a carry case from the start, and should stay that way...please
Mac Pro in Alu is a lovely beast in engineering and materials terms, they had been making cases with handles for 2 generations previously; all the way from the blue/white G3 towers, through the Quicksilver and MDD G4 towers, before going Alu.
Again, I'd put my vote in for a decent and well engineered in line 'suitcase' handle arrangement.
Maybe there could be a second sidearm variant with a solid top cover that can be used if a handle isn't fitted to the top structural rail underneath.
Looking back at the original concept, the handle has been watered down a bit already IMHO.
The Ncase is there for fixed or bag carry setups, remember that Sidearm(d) was created as a carry case from the start, and should stay that way...please
I'm going to take a moment to go on a little detour, and toss out another idea I had for a layout/design:
This is a smaller design, at 8.5L, and gets there by essentially restricting the build to pretty specific components:
When I first conceived of the Sidearm concept (and its predecessors) many years ago, I had a layout very similar to the Dan A4. Since then, I've come to realize that some things just aren't going to work well with that layout - namely, system cooling and dust control - but I nevertheless still want to do something in that size class with similar capability. This design is an alternative (albeit somewhat unorthodox) way to get there, while still satisfying my airflow requirements.
Curious what you guys think of this, and whether you find the part restrictions too limiting or not.
This is a smaller design, at 8.5L, and gets there by essentially restricting the build to pretty specific components:
- Reference blower GPUs (10.5" max) are practically mandatory to make the airflow work
- 92mm AIO for the CPU is also practically mandatory, since there is little clearance for a CPU cooler and no vents on the side
- FlexATX PSU only
When I first conceived of the Sidearm concept (and its predecessors) many years ago, I had a layout very similar to the Dan A4. Since then, I've come to realize that some things just aren't going to work well with that layout - namely, system cooling and dust control - but I nevertheless still want to do something in that size class with similar capability. This design is an alternative (albeit somewhat unorthodox) way to get there, while still satisfying my airflow requirements.
Curious what you guys think of this, and whether you find the part restrictions too limiting or not.
I could see a system builder like Maingear, Origin, Falcon Northwest, or the like being interested. But the very limited component choice compared to the A4-SFX seems like it'd be a problem from a marketing perspective.
I know there are some people who really like their dust filtering, but I doubt very many like it that much.
I know there are some people who really like their dust filtering, but I doubt very many like it that much.
The restrictions the design imposes seem even more tight in reality, because the reference blower card should also not be too short, or the fan will sit behind the motherboard. Considering there is only one or two 92mm AIO sets with limited global availability that I know of, the compatibility might be too strict. Three possible market trends might make this case not be able to have any future upgrades or replacement parts: shorter OEM cards, Asetek dropping the 92mm AIO, no (good) FlexATX PSU offerings.
As @Aibohphobia said:
As @Aibohphobia said:
They can be, but that's by no means set in stone. As I said, the front 92mm case fan in this design provides the PSU with an abundance of fresh air directly. If the PSU has a temperature-controlled fan, there should be much less need for it to spin up.
Asetek sells the only 92mm AIO that I know of, but has done so for years (through their ebay store). To be clear, if we were to go ahead with this project as a product, we would likely have to sell it as a semi-barebones and include the PSU and possibly AIO. So the future availability of those parts isn't likely to be an issue in this case.
In regards to reference blowers getting shorter or going away, I don't see that happening, honestly. They've been more or less standard for how many years now? At best, we might see them get a half inch to an inch shorter, but then again there's really not much value in that. In a blower cooler you can only really reduce the size of the heatsink, and that's only going to hurt thermals and noise.
As is, this concept is only slightly larger than the Razer Core, but otherwise has very similar dimensions. In principle, it should provide reasonably good CPU and system cooling - better than nearly any other case at this size. It seems to me at least, that for a certain segment of the market who need a very compact, full-performance system, it could be a very compelling proposition.
I see, selling it as a barebones would solve a lot of issues. On the other hand I feel, from a customer perspective this would still give me an uncertain future if something breaks or needs an upgrade. From a production perspective it brings in a lot of issues like sourcing (and maybe installing) the parts, dealing with QC and warranty, ceritification and other legal stuff. I'd be positively amazed if Ncase can pull this off, but it also be worried it would end up costing more in the long-term and damage the name because per example Asetek had a bad batch of pumps or Seasonic didn't test with almost all 12V and no 5V load extensively.
I think once HMB2 memory becomes common place we will see significantly shorter graphics cards, at least at the tiers below the flagship models, such as the Nvidia x70 and x60 models.
Zotac has released a GTX 1080 Mini that is only 211 mm long and that's using GDDR5X memory. This is a card that will be used mostly in SFF builds, but I think it is a precursor of smaller high-end graphics cards in the future. Just not maybe the highest end cards if they need larger air coolers.
Zotac has released a GTX 1080 Mini that is only 211 mm long and that's using GDDR5X memory. This is a card that will be used mostly in SFF builds, but I think it is a precursor of smaller high-end graphics cards in the future. Just not maybe the highest end cards if they need larger air coolers.
It's true, there are a lot of additional challenges going that route. It may be those, rather than anything particular to the design, that makes it infeasible.
That doesn't say anything about reference cards though, which is what this particular design relies on. Like I said, I don't see those changing anytime soon.
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