Stalled NCASE Project Sidearm

[jeshikat]

BTW, I was testing the FSP FSP500-50FSPT 500W FlexATX and at ~350W load AC from the wall, the fan is at about 8,600 RPM. At 490W AC it's going the full 13,000 RPM.

 

[Necere]

BTW, I was testing the FSP 500W FlexATX and at ~350W AC from the wall, the fan is at about 8,600 RPM. At 490W AC it's going the full 13,000 RPM.

Well I don't imagine that's very quiet then.

 

[jeshikat]

Nope.

At 210W it's 5000 RPM, and that's not terrible since there's no whine or annoying tonality. But it is by no means quiet at anything other than idle up to about 120W.

And the fan controller is load-based, so airflow from the bottom 120mm fans will be of limited help keeping the FlexATX fan speed down.

 

[Necere]

Nope.

At 210W it's 5000 RPM, and that's not terrible since there's no whine or annoying tonality. But it is by no means quiet at anything other than idle up to about 120W.

And the fan controller is load-based, so airflow from the bottom 120mm fans will be of limited help keeping the FlexATX fan speed down.

Yeah, temperature-based control is something we've inquired with FSP about, and made clear that we prefer. IIRC they told us this model was both temp- and load-based fan control. Or maybe that's the 400W. Hm.

 

[jeshikat]

Those numbers are in open-air at an ambient of ~23C, so it probably won't get much better, with the 500W at least

 

[Pat-Roner]

Well, the handle is designed for luggage, so I would expect it to be good for at least 20-30lbs. It has an internal flexible steel band, which isn't likely to fail. But yeah, it remains to be seen what we can do for the handle. We may get one custom made that's a a bit higher quality.

"SideArm" was the original name I came up with years ago for a much earlier iteration (which you can see in the [H] thread), long before even the M1 project started. W360 added the "D," I guess because he was able to buy the domain for it. He went ahead and posted the thread without consulting with me first, so there you go. Personally I think it's a bit awkward with the D.

Have you tought about leather?

Something like this would looks awesome, and give a really premium feel.

PSU's annoy me so much. I feel they hold back so much.

Take the psu from the Mac Pro for instance. 450w and literally the size of a hand and does not require an external power brick.
Why can't we get more psu's like this. Would be so awesome for true SFF.

Are there any passive

 

[MarcParis]

Nice project...however I've a good question : what will be benefit vs Ncase M1 or vs Dan A4/sentry? Sorry for this question, because, as a potential customer, that's always the first question I have.. (I don't want to be rude..)

As far as I understand, it has similar volume as ncase M1 with similar layout of Dan A4 (pcie extension) with better cooling, and potential WC using flex psu?

 

[jeshikat]

Have you tought about leather?

Something like this would looks awesome, and give a really premium feel.

That's not very ergonomic though. For designing or selection a handle, I'd recommend taking a look at this: ergonomics.uq.edu.au/eaol/handle.pdf

 

[Pat-Roner]

That's not very ergonomic though. For designing or selection a handle, I'd recommend taking a look at this: ergonomics.uq.edu.au/eaol/handle.pdf

Ergonomic enough imo. It's not like he's going to be carrying it along like a carryon all day. I suppose the handle is mostly for lifting it in and out of a bag and move it around in a room. I would rather have a classy leather strap/handle that fits the aluminium build, rather than a suitcase handle.

But design is highly subjective

 

[jeshikat]

But if that's as much as you'll move it around, there's no need for a handle at all, it's not that big of a case.

I guess this is preference, but I feel that a handle that's not ergonomic enough to really carry the case is not worth having.

 

[Pat-Roner]

But if that's as much as you'll move it around, there's no need for a handle at all, it's not that big of a case.

I disagree with that. Take this BeoPlay speaker for instance. It has a leather handle that despite it not being very ergonomic (but more than enough imo), it's still very useful.
It's a speaker that may live on a dresser in your living room 70% of the time, but from time to time, you bring it to the patio, beach or soccer field. The handle is then serving a purpose as is much easier to move the speaker, whilst it also contributes to the design of the speaker.

I feel a handle can be the same for this case.
I move my nCase m1 ALOT from my home and to my office, and generally bring it lots of places. If I could have a unit like the Sidearm, I would love for it to have a handle. The handle would make it much easier to pick it up, and drop it in what ever you carry it in, and pull it up when you arrive.

I would much rather have a handle that contributes to the design whilst also being useful instead of a "suitcase" handle that while ergonomic, looks like "shit".

 

[jeshikat]

I would much rather have a handle that contributes to the design whilst also being useful instead of a "suitcase" handle that while ergonomic, looks like "shit".

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, a handle on a case like this is a functional element, so to me if it doesn't do its job well (as in, be ergonomic) then that's poor design.

 

[CC Ricers]

I've been quietly following this and really like the concept behind the case. Even more neat that you thought of it before the M1. However what I liked most of it from the original tiny pics on [H] is that it looks kind of like a boom box! I really liked that slight 'H' shaped profile of the original, but also the handle hinges that fold outwards when you need to carry it.

I'm still not fully sold on the new design as I miss the original, but the layout still holds. It's a great case for portability to be sure, enough to distinguish it from the M1. Also like the replaceable bottom panel for radiators, you know what EVGA would have done if they didn't feel like selling two different cases And it's in a more appealing place at the bottom than at the top.

 

[jeshikat]

I guess a good question for anyone considering purchasing this case, how many of you would actually use the handle on a somewhat regular basis? And how far would you carry it?

 

[Necere]

Have you tought about leather?

Something like this would looks awesome, and give a really premium feel.

My concern with a leather handle is that it might not hold up under the weight of a fully-loaded case. There's a big difference between a portable speaker that probably weighs under 5lbs, and a PC that can weigh upwards of 15-20lbs.

Nice project...however I've a good question : what will be benefit vs Ncase M1 or vs Dan A4/sentry? Sorry for this question, because, as a potential customer, that's always the first question I have.. (I don't want to be rude..)

As far as I understand, it has similar volume as ncase M1 with similar layout of Dan A4 (pcie extension) with better cooling, and potential WC using flex psu?

I designed it to address some of the requests people had for the M1. Specifically, a lot of people have asked us for a windowed side panel for the M1, but my position has always been that the M1's layout doesn't support a window well and it breaks a lot of the functionality. So this is an attempt to incorporate a window in a way that doesn't affect cooling or component support.

Compared to the M1, you get:

• A window option
• A handle option
• Better custom watercooling support, including room for an internal res/pump
• Better tall GPU support

At the cost of:

• CPU cooler height
• Probably less total drive space
• Optical drive support
• A little bit of extra volume (for the watercooled version)

Compared to the A4, you get:

• Watercooling support
• A window option that doesn't affect cooling
• Dust filters
• A handle option
• More front I/O ports
• More drive space

At the cost of:

• About 90% more volume (for the watercooled version)

I also think even the air-only version has the potential to be quieter and cooling running than the A4, due to the two intake fans providing laminar airflow through the case. Even if CPU/GPU temps aren't significantly different, temperatures for secondary components (drives - especially back-of-board M.2 SSDs, VRMs, etc) should be better.

Regarding the PSU, I may end up going SFX after all. It will necessitate 15mm added to the length, which is a half a liter size increase, but if flex can't cut it then there's not much choice.

I've been quietly following this and really like the concept behind the case. Even more neat that you thought of it before the M1. However what I liked most of it from the original tiny pics on [H] is that it looks kind of like a boom box! I really liked that slight 'H' shaped profile of the original, but also the handle hinges that fold outwards when you need to carry it.

I'm still not fully sold on the new design as I miss the original, but the layout still holds. It's a great case for portability to be sure, enough to distinguish it from the M1. Also like the replaceable bottom panel for radiators, you know what EVGA would have done if they didn't feel like selling two different cases And it's in a more appealing place at the bottom than at the top.

Yeah, that concept had kind of a nice look. At the time though I wasn't putting a ton of thought into the mechanical design. Things change when you actually have to figure out how to build the thing, and of course being limited to a handful of different materials/processes makes it that much more challenging.

 

[MarcParis]

Thanks Necere for explanation, now it's crystal clear..

Aircooled version, with sfx psu support (sfx-l are not mandatory for one gpu) could be really interesting at the end.

 

[MoarCoffeePlzzz]

Would LOVE to get my hands on one of these and get a watercooling super up in it!

 

[BaK]

New NCASE project, yay!

IMO the SFX option oriented case lengthwise is perfectly good for an air cooling setup.
Only downside is no room any more for 3.5"HDDs.
However from what I see some 2.5" HDDs (70mm width) could be stacked on the SFX side (63.5mm width) in the space left between the PSU and the motherboard.
These ~7mm should be available as the width of a FlexATX is 8.15mm.
There could be dedicated holes on the PSU bracket for the first disk, and then support brackets 'à la M1' for the next drives.

This could also work for a watercooling setup with a CPU block/pump combo but a discrete pump will not find its place inside the case where it should be -> FlexATX!

Some feedback:

• Great to see supported case airflow by the bottom fans. Perhaps they can help cool the FlexATX PSU as well.

That would be ideal, but as is the PSU is too far forward to take much advantage of the airflow from the bottom fans.

^this!

I am having good/quiet results with a modded FlexATX cooled by a 80mm fan at low speed + duct:

Couldn't you put such a fan under the PSU, inbetween the front side of the case and the 120mm bottom fan?
Hard to tell by the pic what this area is made for, fittings and tubing I guess.

In my build I had removed the default PSU fan, dunno if leaving it in place will prevent the air flow.
An option could be to find a PSU with its fan next to the C14 connector, having the 80mm fan blowing at the other side.

Just an idea, hope that could inspire you

 

[Necere]

New NCASE project, yay!

IMO the SFX option oriented case lengthwise is perfectly good for an air cooling setup.
Only downside is no room any more for 3.5"HDDs.
However from what I see some 2.5" HDDs (70mm width) could be stacked on the SFX side (63.5mm width) in the space left between the PSU and the motherboard.
These ~7mm should be available as the width of a FlexATX is 8.15mm.
There could be dedicated holes on the PSU bracket for the first disk, and then support brackets 'à la M1' for the next drives.

This could also work for a watercooling setup with a CPU block/pump combo but a discrete pump will not find its place inside the case where it should be -> FlexATX!


^this!

I am having good/quiet results with a modded FlexATX cooled by a 80mm fan at low speed + duct:

Couldn't you put such a fan under the PSU, inbetween the front side of the case and the 120mm bottom fan?
Hard to tell by the pic what this area is made for, fittings and tubing I guess.

In my build I had removed the default PSU fan, dunno if leaving it in place will prevent the air flow.
An option could be to find a PSU with its fan next to the C14 connector, having the 80mm fan blowing at the other side.

Just an idea, hope that could inspire you

Yeah, ducting a fan into the flexATX intake is a good way to reduce the PSU's own fan noise, in principle. The trouble is, at least some flex PSUs are both temperature and load controlled, which means even if you can keep the temp down with an external fan, once it hits a certain load the internal fan will ramp up and it will get loud anyway. I've tried to make it clear in our talks with FSP that we'd greatly prefer temperature controlled, for this reason, but it seems that at least their current units are load controlled as well.

Anyway, I've done a bit of work on the case and got it set up for SFX mounting now:

The length of the case is now up to 355mm, which leaves enough room for a single 3.5" and 2.5" drive at the front, plus a ~305mm GPU. The PSU bracket is also designed such that it can be oriented laterally, across the width of the case:

This would open up space in the middle for pump/res/tubing in watercooling builds, though at the expense of front drive mounting and GPU length (reference 267mm/10.5" still supported).

 

[jeshikat]

Hmm, with a short GPU, dedication, and a reckless disregard for the designer's intention, I think it's possible to fit an ATX PSU in there

Joking aside, I think this is a great implementation of the SFX mount.