Power Supply HDPlex 400W AC-DC Adapter

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,380
5,912
Thanks, But I have a genuine reason to be pissed....
so far, we don't have a genuine brickless solution for Skyreach which can take a 65W cpu and above 1060...
This should have been an ideal solution, its too close for the same, but becomes unfit with very minor shortcomings..

Imagine you have prepared for a holiday for months and miss the flight in minutes..
Larry over at HDPlex has done as much or more than anyone I can think of to provide solutions that benefit the SFF community. Without him and his countless innovations in the small form factor power space the idea of a brickless S4M literally would have never been a thing (I think I can safely say this as the "inventor" of the brickless S4M). The product he is offering has a power budget that is 25% higher than the Dell 330W, has a significantly higher overcurrent and spike specification than the Dell 330W and is less that half the volume.

For you to sit here and criticize the amazing product he is offering in the 400W AC-DC, to be genuinely pissed off that he hasn't ticked all of your boxes and made what you deem to be the perfect S4M solution, is something that I frankly find offensive. If you are choked about the PSU being 58mm and not perfectly fitting the S4M's front inner chassis, then get some sand paper and put in some elbow grease. If you're concerned about the C6 inlet he's chosen being an electrical issue then buy a grounded C8 inlet on Mouser and wire it yourself. If you think that EMI is going to be an issue, then buy an inlet with EMI filtering and 6.0A rating that was linked five or six posts back. These devices are designed by professional electrical engineers in Hong Kong and fully certified by UL/FAA/CE etc. at significant cost to HDPlex. This means that the units legally meet stringent enough electrical certifications to be sold not only in China but also North America and the EU. Unless you are an electrical engineer with enough credentials to provide an educated opinion on these matters, I suggest you refrain from ALL-CAPSING PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOUR OPINIONS ON THESE MATTERS.

Larry designed this unit for his HDPlex cases. At my urging he made all reasonable accommodations to make it fit the S4M, but due to the laws of physics, thermal dissipation and component size/layout this is the best he could do. That you can actually come into our community and spout this kind of garbage is complete and total bullshit. For lack of a better word, you sir are a total c**t.

Good day.
 
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Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Bronze Supporter
Mar 6, 2016
2,657
3,339
J-hackcompany.com
Larry over at HDPlex has done as much or more than anyone I can think of to provide solutions that benefit the SFF community. Without him and his countless innovations in the small form factor power space the idea of a brickless S4M literally would have never been a thing (I think I can safely say this as the "inventor" of the brickless S4M). The product he is offering has a power budget that is 25% higher than the Dell 330W, has a significantly higher overcurrent and spike specification than the Dell 330W and is less that half the volume.

For you to sit here and criticize the amazing product he is offering in the 400W AC-DC, to be genuinely pissed off that he hasn't ticked all of your boxes and made what you deem to be the perfect S4M solution, is something that I frankly find offensive. If you are choked about the PSU being 58mm and not perfectly fitting the S4M's front inner chassis, then get some sand paper and put in some elbow grease. If you're concerned about the C6 inlet he's chosen being an electrical issue then buy a grounded C8 inlet on Mouser and wire it yourself. If you think that EMI is going to be an issue, then buy an inlet with EMI filtering and 6.0A rating that was linked five or six posts back. These devices are designed by professional electrical engineers in Hong Kong and fully certified by UL/FAA/CE etc. at significant cost to HDPlex. This means that the units legally meet stringent enough electrical certifications to be sold not only in China but also North America and the EU. Unless you are an electrical engineer with enough credentials to provide an educated opinion on these matters, I suggest you refrain from ALL-CAPSING PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOUR OPINIONS ON THESE MATTERS.

Larry designed this unit for his HDPlex cases. At my urging he made all reasonable accommodations to make it fit the S4M, but due to the laws of physics, thermal dissipation and component size/layout this is the best he could do. That you can actually come into our community and spout this kind of garbage is complete and total bullshit. For lack of a better word, you sir are a total c**t.

Good day.
KMPKT,

I understand your frustration but please don't mind those being negative.

I do agree that HDPLEX has been very good with pushing sff solutions, even though I disagree with using 19V as the platform.

However, shaving down metal is not good method that will work. Many people were looking to this to be a easy consumer end product not one that requires modding. That user negativity is not warranted but if it requires shaving, it is a legit concern.

Keep in mind shaving creates metal particles, which becomes unsafe if people are negligent when powering equipment.

I believe the enclosure is for passive cooling. Perhaps we can get a smaller but open enclosure that uses active cooling for SFFLAB?
 

Thirumal Kumaran

Cable-Tie Ninja
Jan 22, 2018
146
67
Larry over at HDPlex has done as much or more than anyone I can think of to provide solutions that benefit the SFF community.
.......
That you can actually come into our community and spout this kind of garbage is complete and total bullshit. For lack of a better word, you sir are a total c**t.
Good day.
Thanks for your reply and addressing me as a C**T
I never questioned Larry's capability in terms of knowledge or his contribution given to this forum or SFF enthusiasts on the whole...

The issue starts when the webpage addresses this product as Support for "S4M out of the box"
If I'm not mistaken, "out of the box" implies using the product as it is without any modifications needed. If I need to skim edges, add my own connector and EMI filter, I still stand by my word it is not fit for the scenario. If it looks offensive, apologies for the same and I always refrain swearing on a public forum.
I still understand there are various limits in incorporating these much power onto this small dimensions.
If the webpage says nothing about S4M, I would be the 1st guy to say these as the mods to do to make it a perfect PSU for a S4M.
 

Choidebu

"Banned"
Aug 16, 2017
1,133
1,120
Eventually there will be a high wattage internal solution for the MINI. And when it comes out, it won't be good enough (again.) It is a never ending goal post. So don't stress. :)
Can't stress this enough (sorry can't help the joke). Nuff said. I just came into sff again recently and boy the improvement compared to then is tremendous. And it's just getting better. This is one step to the right direction, and I'm grateful enough for it.

No offense to all i7+1080 builders out there, I used to think your approach to sff is flawed. But NOW I think it was actually groundbreaking and thanks to that, 300W+ in <5L could be common enough to be the norm in the future.
 

Reldey

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Feb 14, 2017
387
405
Really can't wait for this. This is the one thing that, IMO, was making it difficult to suggest to my friends to build in an S4 Mini. The sourcing of a power brick could be a crap-shoot, if you didn't buy directly from Dell, and the size of all the bricks on the market is just obscene. Even as a just an external, this is ground breaking stuff, that will reduce the overall volume of high performance S4 minis by a substantial amount. Can't wait to buy day one. Very interested in how I could cram this in with a 1080.... whatever modding could be done...
 

Soul_Est

SFF Guru
Moderator
Silver Supporter
Feb 12, 2016
1,469
1,860
Just to add some points,
grinding 0.5mm is one thing... grinding them evenly to maintain the parallelism is another.
C8 is for 2.5A but taking the worst case its 100v (100-120v) reduces its power limit further...
No EMI Filter means to get ready for flickering TVs and Lights...
and finally don't touch the case if you are suspecting a dodgy line... (The point of SFF is to move to various places)
either I'm overreacting or the physics doesn't allow to fit those components onto the S4 size case..
I'm with you about the fitment, but about the EMI and current ratings, bleh - dude come on. If your tv flickers do you use 90s crt or what? If your lights are flickering quit using incandescents already.

Those ratings are way overspecced. I do agree we have to be cautious for cheaper parts that plays fire with these specs, but generally we're fine.

First world problems, really.

One thing to note, is that if the unit is tobe mounted to the side of the gpu (essentially the 'bottom' of the case), there are no flanges so we in fact have 64mm - 1.5mm * 2 = 61mm (exterior minus two frames' width) to work with. Granted there are no secure (read: screws) way to mount it beside adhesives.
I'm desperate about the EMI filtering and ground.,.. because I'm not in US or UK to assume it as a 1st world problem.. I'm from India and the Power and lines are notorious... which means no ground or EMI filter... no go for me..

and about the C8 connector... Josh's design choice is to drive an external power to the GPU through it and not an AC line...

But my request for next gen is to give space to modify the C8 to C6 or give C6 altogether...
Dude I'm from Indonesia. It's FINE. You don't need EMI filter. No C6 inlets come with filter anyway.

No.. its not...

Edit: Removed caps as it means yelling, Apologies to anyone whom it has offended...
Larry over at HDPlex has done as much or more than anyone I can think of to provide solutions that benefit the SFF community. Without him and his countless innovations in the small form factor power space the idea of a brickless S4M literally would have never been a thing (I think I can safely say this as the "inventor" of the brickless S4M). The product he is offering has a power budget that is 25% higher than the Dell 330W, has a significantly higher overcurrent and spike specification than the Dell 330W and is less that half the volume.

For you to sit here and criticize the amazing product he is offering in the 400W AC-DC, to be genuinely pissed off that he hasn't ticked all of your boxes and made what you deem to be the perfect S4M solution, is something that I frankly find offensive. If you are choked about the PSU being 58mm and not perfectly fitting the S4M's front inner chassis, then get some sand paper and put in some elbow grease. If you're concerned about the C6 inlet he's chosen being an electrical issue then buy a grounded C8 inlet on Mouser and wire it yourself. If you think that EMI is going to be an issue, then buy an inlet with EMI filtering and 6.0A rating that was linked five or six posts back. These devices are designed by professional electrical engineers in Hong Kong and fully certified by UL/FAA/CE etc. at significant cost to HDPlex. This means that the units legally meet stringent enough electrical certifications to be sold not only in China but also North America and the EU. Unless you are an electrical engineer with enough credentials to provide an educated opinion on these matters, I suggest you refrain from ALL-CAPSING PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOUR OPINIONS ON THESE MATTERS.

Larry designed this unit for his HDPlex cases. At my urging he made all reasonable accommodations to make it fit the S4M, but due to the laws of physics, thermal dissipation and component size/layout this is the best he could do. That you can actually come into our community and spout this kind of garbage is complete and total bullshit. For lack of a better word, you sir are a total c**t.

Good day.
Thanks for your reply and addressing me as a C**T
I never questioned Larry's capability in terms of knowledge or his contribution given to this forum or SFF enthusiasts on the whole...

The issue starts when the webpage addresses this product as Support for "S4M out of the box"
If I'm not mistaken, "out of the box" implies using the product as it is without any modifications needed. If I need to skim edges, add my own connector and EMI filter, I still stand by my word it is not fit for the scenario. If it looks offensive, apologies for the same and I always refrain swearing on a public forum.
I still understand there are various limits in incorporating these much power onto this small dimensions.
If the webpage says nothing about S4M, I would be the 1st guy to say these as the mods to do to make it a perfect PSU for a S4M.
As @confusis stated already, chill. Please? I would like us to be able to discuss this and other topics without arguing, dismissals, name-calling, or swearing.

@Thirumal Kumaran , while EMI is indeed a concern (I live in Canada in affordable housing with a CRT TV; story for another time), the answers were there on the page. @Choidebu , dismissing @Thirumal Kumaran 's concerns and not addressing them led to these escalations. @Kmpkt , I understand your frustration. You invested a lot into this project. The name-calling was uncalled for. You provided excellent facts and solutions as well.
As @Reldey stated here:
If you look at the section Package Contents on the link you shared, it says it has an EMI filter on the inputs.
It is plainly stated:
1 x IEC C14 AC Input with EMI filter
While the EMI is only present on the input, it is there. Now with regards to the other standards, the part that @eth0lo linked to does add to the cost and it is worth it for the peace of mind.

If you don't mind modding your case you have a couple of options - C6 with 6A pros: EMI filtered, 6A, 250VAC; cons: no ground, needs widen the C6 opening like 1-2mm - TE's M12 system, pros: multi-wire sockets, 4A, 250VAC, multiple options to mount, threaded cable insert; cons: no EMI filter, needs to widen the round opening like 2mm. Some TE's parts - T4171210003-001 - T4171310003-001 - T4171010003-001 - T4171110003-001 The lack of EMI filtering can be achieved the same way that some bricks do; adding the EMI filter in the cable If you don't want to mod your case the only thing that can be used is either a regular C6 or a GX12, the GX12 can be found with 3 pins allowing to pass ground through it, no EMI filter as well, if you live in a country with +220V lines those (GX12) are nearly impossible to locate from a respectable company
These are excellent solutions you found here.

Now I could have been wrong in my post. I could not stand by when this came up.

That said, can we please get back to discussing this awesomeness?
 

Reldey

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Feb 14, 2017
387
405
As @confusis stated already, chill. Please? I would like us to be able to discuss this and other topics without arguing, dismissals, name-calling, or swearing.

@Thirumal Kumaran , while EMI is indeed a concern (I live in Canada in affordable housing with a CRT TV; story for another time), the answers were there on the page. @Choidebu , dismissing @Thirumal Kumaran 's concerns and not addressing them led to these escalations. @Kmpkt , I understand your frustration. The name-calling was uncalled for. You provided excellent facts and solutions as well.
As @Reldey stated here:

It is plainly stated:
1 x IEC C14 AC Input with EMI filter
While the EMI is only present on the input, it is there. Now with regards to the other standards, the part that @eth0lo linked to does add to the cost and it is worth it for the peace of mind.


These are excellent solutions you found here.

Now I could have been wrong in my post. I could not stand by when this came up.

That said, can we please get back to discussing this awesomeness?
Thanks for that. I think my message got lost in the hubub.
 
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Untero

Average Stuffer
Dec 14, 2017
83
80
I guess people shouldn't confuse completely optional personal needs with essential requirements.
I haven't ever had any problems whenever I'm grounded or not or using EMI filtering or not even though I live in Russia, so my guess it's really up to personal sense of safety or environment specifics .
However, out-of-box-s4m stuff is just a little weird since technically hdplex 300w should've also had out-of-box-s4m because some users also managed to sand some metal and stick this is the case.
Even though it's completely irrelavant to me, and maybe for most users of this forum since that's not a problem to work with sander a bit (and I would definitely do it since omg I need 400w brickless s4m), some people that are not ready for modding might purchase the brick thinking it's plug and play. That might piss someone off seing "yeah, you can buy it for s4m, stick it in case and run it" and realise you should mod it to get it to work.
I'd just get out-of-box off description to save unprepared users from unforseen modding.
 
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Thirumal Kumaran

Cable-Tie Ninja
Jan 22, 2018
146
67
With respect to the community I think i'm posting the last comment on this forum.

I always believe wearing a helmet or safety gear will save me incase of an accident.
But some feel, they dont need a safety gear because they haven't faced an accident yet...

My request for an EMI and ground is for the sole purpose of insuring the electronics against the same.
The whole scenario started when people started to overlook it & I feel there is a reason those components are a part of the package. If you chose to ignore it please feel free to do so..

And if calling names & asking about the credentials in electrical and electronics is what you revert for a feedback, I think i'm in a very wrong place.
BTW, i cannot make a circuit, But I can turn a lump of aluminium and titanium to a component which can fly...

Thank you all... and have a good day...
 

Reldey

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Feb 14, 2017
387
405
With respect to the community I think i'm posting the last comment on this forum.

I always believe wearing a helmet or safety gear will save me incase of an accident.
But some feel, they dont need a safety gear because they haven't faced an accident yet...

My request for an EMI and ground is for the sole purpose of insuring the electronics against the same.
The whole scenario started when people started to overlook it & I feel there is a reason those components are a part of the package. If you chose to ignore it please feel free to do so..

And if calling names & asking about the credentials in electrical and electronics is what you revert for a feedback, I think i'm in a very wrong place.
BTW, i cannot make a circuit, But I can turn a lump of aluminium and titanium to a component which can fly...

Thank you all... and have a good day...
Again, just to be clear to all, it is listed on the Product Page as including an EMI filtered AC input. Whether or not this will fit inside the S4 Mini will vary depending on your componentry, and your willingness to mod. That is all.
 

loader963

King of Cable Management
Bronze Supporter
Jan 21, 2017
639
543
@Thirumal Kumaran
I believe itdoes have an emi filter though on the inputs. While it may have no ground, it has been pointed out already and does no good harping on it and disparaging other members. It’s not your opinion that has inflamed others, we all disagree, it’s just the way you have presented it. Cheers, mate.
 

Thehack

Spatial Philosopher
Creator
Bronze Supporter
Mar 6, 2016
2,657
3,339
J-hackcompany.com
With respect to the community I think i'm posting the last comment on this forum.

I always believe wearing a helmet or safety gear will save me incase of an accident.
But some feel, they dont need a safety gear because they haven't faced an accident yet...

My request for an EMI and ground is for the sole purpose of insuring the electronics against the same.
The whole scenario started when people started to overlook it & I feel there is a reason those components are a part of the package. If you chose to ignore it please feel free to do so..

And if calling names & asking about the credentials in electrical and electronics is what you revert for a feedback, I think i'm in a very wrong place.
BTW, i cannot make a circuit, But I can turn a lump of aluminium and titanium to a component which can fly...

Thank you all... and have a good day...
The EMI as I understand it is not as much of an issue for most people. There is two level of DC regulation here so I don't see how EMI can affect anything.

I wholly do agree that any metal chassis equipment needs to have ground.

There is no reason we can't put the personal arguments behind us and work on the solution.

Other ideas: perhaps we can use a GX12 plug and Josh can offer the correct modular cables and ac cord as accessories for those who wish to use it an S4.
 

Josh | NFC

Not From Concentrate
NFC Systems
Silver Supporter
Jun 12, 2015
1,863
4,426
www.nfc-systems.com
I don't think you should leave, Thirumal.

I never told or asked Larry to put "works with S4M out of the box," and while I do believe there should be an asterisk or link there to one of my videos, build sheets, guides, or explanations of how it works, I do think that it is an accurate statement.

The HDPLEX 400 will fit in the S4M out of the box--as it is intended to fit. It fits in the same spot as the HDPLEX 160 AC-DC, and is an upgrade to it. It still has the same compatibility caveats; no oversized cards, no cards with side PCIE connectors. It does allow for higher wattage CPUs, more tuning, and as Thirumal requests--more safety headroom. I have made videos, posts, have info on my website about how an out of the box brickless MINI works. Additionally I was available in email to answer questions about the HDPLEX 400--it was never intended to or going to work outside those bounds "out of the box."

To be honest I think the fact that it doesn't fit in front of the chassis is a good thing--look how many people here are angry because it's not an ideal solution for many reasons. Having it "drop in" the case in front of a GTX1080 mini is a bad thing because people who don't know what they are doing could get in over their head. You need to be educated on the benefits and drawbacks to the C8 connector. You need to understand that this is a small brick and needs cooling, and that dumping in half the heat from a 1080 onto it is a recipe for disappointment. You will need to understand tuning in order to get such a system working stable long term. There are probably other things too that I haven't thought of, which is all the more reason for it to fit the way it does.

This shouldn't discourage people who do know what they are doing. If you want to stick in a Vega 56 Nano (providing it can run off the brick, testing to come) you can do so...just requires you remove the PCIE connectors and solder some extension cables in place. Or you can go with the dual meanwell setup. There are always options for modders. That's why I have the cutouts and mounting points I do.

I have to play a balancing game. I spend, conservatively, 10 hours a week answering emails centered around PC troubleshooting. Many of my customers haven't built a PC before, and even those that have seem to make mistakes. I'm not responsible for troubleshooting a chassis customer's system that won't boot due to RAM needing tweaking, or a DOA motherboard, misplugged wires, or any of the PSU products that I recommend. The brickless "movement" has added much more time to my email stack. Of course I love helping people and I don't mind answering emails but you can see that it can get a bit overwhelming. I try to make things EASIER on advanced modders, but I still have to design "guides" in the MINI so people don't put in parts that won't work well regardless of fitment.

Like I mentioned before, capability in ultra small form factor is a never ending goal post. Even though games haven't become more demanding and GPUs advance leaps and bounds each generation the top end GPUs are always going to require more innovation and users asking for my case to be a little wider, bigger, or have different cutouts to support them. We have to be smart about compromise so we don't end up growing the MINI into a monster.

Peace to all of you and have fun small form factoring! <3
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,380
5,912
@Thirumal Kumaran

I'm terribly sorry for the name calling. I wrote the post at the end of an incredibly long day and was a tad (or more) drunk. I consider Larry to be both a friend and a colleague and I know first hand how hard he works to meet the demands of our community as best he can. I personally found your posting to reflect a significant level of entitlement which frankly is a trigger for me regardless of how many beer I've had. That being said, I could have easily made my point without using foul language and for that I am sorry.
 

Windfall

Shrink Way Wielder
Moderator
Silver Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
2,114
1,562
Alright, now that that's wrapped up, lets have some genuine rejoicing for the fact that we now have 400w of power available in this space! unless you go open-frame, this is a first. Regardless of this or that, this is just another great product from HDPlex. And they do what they can. There always are design limitations, and always bad designs. But Let's put this behind us, and find some other applications for this!
 

Untero

Average Stuffer
Dec 14, 2017
83
80
I've spoken to Larry and depending on the thermals of V1 we MIGHT see a 55mm wide version in the future. That's the best I can do for right now.
So since hdplex 400W DC-ATX and hdplex 400W AC-DC would be taking 160+180=340mm of space (if placing in front of s4m), looks like the power button has to be placed somewhere else. The solution also gives no space for 400W AC-DC cooling.
What do you think about going with "Orangulan Deux" mod approach?
Maybe it would be cool (a pun intended) to use Dynamo combo to free some space for the brick? That might partly move brick from gpu hot air dump + give space for cooling (maybe even lots of cooling) and also leave space for a power button?
Dynamo 360 should sit at the bottom of case with some kind of thermal adhesive.

That's for sure some talks about a component that isn't even released, but hey, isn't sffforum also a perfect place for fantasies?
 

Reldey

Master of Cramming
Original poster
Feb 14, 2017
387
405
So since hdplex 400W DC-ATX and hdplex 400W AC-DC would be taking 160+180=340mm of space (if placing in front of s4m), looks like the power button has to be placed somewhere else. The solution also gives no space for 400W AC-DC cooling.
What do you think about going with "Orangulan Deux" mod approach?
Maybe it would be cool (a pun intended) to use Dynamo combo to free some space for the brick? That might partly move brick from gpu hot air dump + give space for cooling (maybe even lots of cooling) and also leave space for a power button?
Dynamo 360 should sit at the bottom of case with some kind of thermal adhesive.

That's for sure some talks about a component that isn't even released, but hey, isn't sffforum also a perfect place for fantasies?
With the Dynamo, there probably wouldn't be a problem.