Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[fabio]

Just to be clear, the A12x25 is not designed specifically to be a static pressure fan. It is an all-around performer that happens to produce better results in most practical applications like use on a radiator.

Noctua does produce static pressure fans and the A series is not one of them, but for radiators the A12 outperforms their static pressure fans.

NF-A12x25: performance comparison to NF-F12 and NF-S12A

Designed in Austria, Noctua's premium cooling components are renowned for their superb quietness, exceptional performance and thoroughgoing quality.

noctua.at

Yes, sorry, what I meant is "a fan with a good static pressure but still decent airflow", like the A12x25, or the Arctic P12.

 

[robojim]

The exhaust setup being quieter than intake on the L12S makes sense due to reduced turbulence with motherboard parts. Less cooling for the VRM but tbh those aren't as temperature sensitive as you'd think they are.

 

[ellroy80]

@fabio, just to round out the tests, how about the L12S back in its intended orientation with the fan set to intake/exhaust, with the case fan above /below?

 

[DmanX]

SO, here the tests so far! The S12A even if is a pure airflow super silent fan, wasn't really helpful on the cpu side.
With a static pressure fan like the A12x25, the results are quite different!

Regarding the L12S Fan, I've tested also the Scythe KazeFlex Slim, and there are NO difference in temp, only the Noctua is more silent.
As well, on the L12S, the fan set as exhaust, is more quiet than the intake option.

For the rest, here the numbers!
Let me know if you need more infos or tests!
ALL the fans are at 100% SPEED

L12S INTAKE, NO FAN ON TOP
CPU - 75C / 77max
GPU - 45C
SSDs - 55C (OS Front), 57C (Back)
VRM - 68C
CHIPSET - 64C
AMBIENT - 23,4C

-

L12S EXHAUST, NO FAN ON TOP
CPU - 76C / 79max
GPU - 40C
SSDs - 40C (OS Front), 41C (Back)
VRM - 59C
CHIPSET - 54C
AMBIENT - 23,0C

-

L12S 90 degrees EXHAUST, NO FAN ON TOP
CPU - 81C / 83.8max
GPU - 40C
SSDs - 49C (OS Front), 47C (Back)
VRM - 58C
CHIPSET - 63.5C
AMBIENT - 22,7C

-

L12S 90 degrees EXHAUST FLIP BOTTOM S12A INTAKE
CPU - 84C / 85.5max
GPU - 41C
SSDs - 50C (OS Front), 49C (Back)
VRM - 54C
CHIPSET - 65.8C
AMBIENT - 22,8C

-

L12S 90 degrees EXHAUST , TOP A12X25 INTAKE
CPU - 77C / 80max
GPU - 42C
SSDs - 46C (OS Front), 45C (Back)
VRM - 52C
CHIPSET - 56.8C
AMBIENT - 22,9C

-

L12S 90 degrees INTAKE, TOP A12X25 EXHAUST
CPU - 74C / 77max
GPU - 39C
SSDs - 45C (OS Front), 42C (Back)
VRM - 55C
CHIPSET - 57.5C
AMBIENT - 22,8C

Did you try L12S Exhaust, Top A12x25 Exhaust?

 

[ellroy80]

Regarding the conversation about the 3080/3090: on the FE cards, doesn't the fan at the PSU end of the card pull air through the heatsink? i.e. it will pull air from the centre of the T1 and exhaust it out the side panel? That's my understanding. If correct, you'll probably want the PSU fan on the outside of the case, because you don't want that working against the GPU fan?

 

[stanleyguan]

Regarding the conversation about the 3080/3090: on the FE cards, doesn't the fan at the PSU end of the card pull air through the heatsink? i.e. it will pull air from the centre of the T1 and exhaust it out the side panel? That's my understanding. If correct, you'll probably want the PSU fan on the outside of the case, because you don't want that working against the GPU fan?

No, that fan pulls from the outside and blows onto the PSU.

 

[Deke]

Regarding the L12S Fan, I've tested also the Scythe KazeFlex Slim, and there are NO difference in temp, only the Noctua is more silent.
As well, on the L12S, the fan set as exhaust, is more quiet than the intake option.

For the rest, here the numbers!
Let me know if you need more infos or tests!
ALL the fans are at 100% SPEED

Thanks for your hard work and this information. I realize you're running 100% fan speed to standardize the tests, but the acoustics must be awful. Any insight into what the acoustic ceiling might be with real world use? I realize it's a hard question to answer.

It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks in this thread once people start getting their hands on the 3080.

 

[ellroy80]

No, that fan pulls from the outside and blows onto the PSU.

Sh!t, sorry, you're correct.

 

[BSartist]

Stupid question maybe: but why only one exhaust fan? Do two not fit with the L12S cooler?

 

[x111]

SO, here the tests so far! The S12A even if is a pure airflow super silent fan, wasn't really helpful on the cpu side.
With a static pressure fan like the A12x25, the results are quite different!

Regarding the L12S Fan, I've tested also the Scythe KazeFlex Slim, and there are NO difference in temp, only the Noctua is more silent.
As well, on the L12S, the fan set as exhaust, is more quiet than the intake option.

For the rest, here the numbers!
Let me know if you need more infos or tests!
ALL the fans are at 100% SPEED

L12S INTAKE, NO FAN ON TOP
CPU - 75C / 77max
GPU - 45C
SSDs - 55C (OS Front), 57C (Back)
VRM - 68C
CHIPSET - 64C
AMBIENT - 23,4C

-

L12S EXHAUST, NO FAN ON TOP
CPU - 76C / 79max
GPU - 40C
SSDs - 40C (OS Front), 41C (Back)
VRM - 59C
CHIPSET - 54C
AMBIENT - 23,0C

-

L12S 90 degrees EXHAUST, NO FAN ON TOP
CPU - 81C / 83.8max
GPU - 40C
SSDs - 49C (OS Front), 47C (Back)
VRM - 58C
CHIPSET - 63.5C
AMBIENT - 22,7C

-

L12S 90 degrees EXHAUST FLIP BOTTOM S12A INTAKE
CPU - 84C / 85.5max
GPU - 41C
SSDs - 50C (OS Front), 49C (Back)
VRM - 54C
CHIPSET - 65.8C
AMBIENT - 22,8C

-

L12S 90 degrees EXHAUST , TOP A12X25 INTAKE
CPU - 77C / 80max
GPU - 42C
SSDs - 46C (OS Front), 45C (Back)
VRM - 52C
CHIPSET - 56.8C
AMBIENT - 22,9C

-

L12S 90 degrees INTAKE, TOP A12X25 EXHAUST
CPU - 74C / 77max
GPU - 39C
SSDs - 45C (OS Front), 42C (Back)
VRM - 55C
CHIPSET - 57.5C
AMBIENT - 22,8C

sticky waste !!
are those numbers on idle or what ?!


thanks for testing !

.

 

[SSJ4]

Well, there is still a mm from the side panel, so, let's hope!

If we look at the specifications.

GPU clearance in the T1. is 39.2mm (Dual slot is actually 36mm btw) which is from the back of the PCB. EVGA XC3 without the back plate is 40.9mm. So there is a clearance issue of 1.7mm

To play devils advocate a little. It was maintained (pretty heavily too) that the only radiator that would fit is the LT240. Anyone even opening the discussion to alternatives would be shut down. Now of course we know there are a slew of radiators and AIO with a variety of fan configurations that fit. Could this be a similar situation?

Could it be possible to sneak the XC3 in? I really would not be surprised if we could.

My opinion is that although it may even up fitting. There is no way I would base my build around it fitting. If you purchase it be prepared to have to run it in 3 slot mode.

This is a really tricky situation. Do you risk getting the XC3 and hoping it fits in 2 slot mode. Or do you go for one of the thicker 2.5+ slot cards with better cooling and just run 3 slot mode?

Then we have the discussion of the founders card. Personally I am not convinced the cooling solution will work in the T1. Yes there is clearance if you offset the PSU 19mm I beleive. But thats before considering the PSU cables. I REALLY wish Optimum Tech was sampled so he could test this. Alas he wasnt which is total BS if you ask me.

Anyway. Its starting to stress me out which card I should buy and I know if I do not buy one on launch then I will have to wait for restocking. Which considering demand and covid that could be a long time.

 

[DrHudacris]

So I updated my fan chart on reddit. My suspicion was correct, that when the fans are sandwiched between a radiator and the top panel, thermals are worse. I tested the following configuration: A12x25 x2 plus kaze flex slim x1 on TX240 with a 320watt heat load in a) no panels, b) top panel only (no side panels) and c) side panels only without top panel. I just tightly held the panels in place front and back as the Noctuas are too thick to install the top panel.

The Delta coolant temp (please only pay attention to this value, as I tested the configs on different days and at the beginning of the day it's nice and cool and after testing a 300+ watt load for a while, my office warms up quite a bit) increases 7C comparing no panels with top panel only.

I know fans suffer greatly if there is restrictions placed on both intake and exhaust sides, so this is probably why. I think the affect of top panel is less when the fans are below radiator in push.

Ps: no idea why the side panels only test has a lower delta T than no panels...for some reason my GPUs are pulling 300 watts combined instead of the 320+ yesterday in heaven. Maybe that's why...

 

[stanleyguan]

So I updated my fan chart on reddit. My suspicion was correct, that when the fans are sandwiched between a radiator and the top panel, thermals are worse. I tested the following configuration: A12x25 x2 plus kaze flex slim x1 on TX240 with a 320watt heat load in a) no panels, b) top panel only (no side panels) and c) side panels only without top panel. I just tightly held the panels in place front and back as the Noctuas are too thick to install the top panel.

The Delta coolant temp (please only pay attention to this value, as I tested the configs on different days and at the beginning of the day it's nice and cool and after testing a 300+ watt load for a while, my office warms up quite a bit) increases 7C comparing no panels with top panel only.

I know fans suffer greatly if there is restrictions placed on both intake and exhaust sides, so this is probably why. I think the affect of top panel is less when the fans are below radiator in push.

Ps: no idea why the side panels only test has a lower delta T than no panels...for some reason my GPUs are pulling 300 watts combined instead of the 320+ yesterday in heaven. Maybe that's why...

I noticed the same thing. When I remove the top panel the coolant temp starts to drop immediately. I don't remember exactly how much but it was around 3-4C. My thermal load was much smaller (~130W), so it's not surprising you saw a bigger difference.

 

[Bonusround]

Regarding the conversation about the 3080/3090: on the FE cards, doesn't the fan at the PSU end of the card pull air through the heatsink? i.e. it will pull air from the centre of the T1 and exhaust it out the side panel? That's my understanding. If correct, you'll probably want the PSU fan on the outside of the case, because you don't want that working against the GPU fan?

No, that fan pulls from the outside and blows onto the PSU.

Who'll be the first to try reversing that fan's flow?

 

[ellroy80]

Who'll be the first to try reversing that fan's flow?

Surely it'll be fabio or DrHudacris?! ?

 

[ellroy80]

@fabio, this might be a stupid question but it's not clear to me from your photos. When you refer to top fan in your data, is this the single fan above your PSU? Or do you have an additional fan above the L12S? (I don't have my T1 yet, some I'm unsure if it's possible to fit a fan above the L12S)

 

[fabio]

@ellroy80 I know that can be a bit confusing, so I will attach here 4 visual options that can help the reading!

Regarding the other tests requested, I will try this evening the 90 degrees L12s exhaust with bottom fans intaking.

@BSartist the second fan above/below the radiator is a Noctua S12A and is ALWAYS present and matching the flow of fan above the CPU cooler when present.

@x111 These are temps under a Blender render test for 30min. So the GPU and the back SSD (is a data drive for me anyway) are pretty in idle. All the rest are under load

@DmanX I'll try later tonight the full exhaust! Regarding the noise, it's not terrible at all actually! When I find a convincing orientation of the system, I will set up the fan in a real-world case scenario (even if, a 3950X is a not a common CPU inside this case though)

Here the visual help! (I've updated also the tests post with 1 more full intaking setup)

 

[Wahaha360]

Just because you could, does it mean you should ?

 

[fabio]

Just because you could, does it mean you should ?

It's quite scaring though!! I think someone should find a solution to deshroud the part near the blowing through fan to let it blows freely also through the fins!

 

[Wahaha360]

It's quite scaring though!! I think someone should find a solution to deshroud the part near the blowing through fan to let it blows freely also through the fins!

I wonder if you can reverse the fan direction on the Nvidia 30XX via software, I know it's prob inefficient, but that's a big win for sandwiches cases.

Anyways, I ordered a custom power supply for RTX3090 anyways, so let's see how it goes.