Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[ellroy80]

@fabio really interesting results with the L12S! It's remarkable that the other components are running so much cooler with the fan set to exhaust. Do you think that the hot air is getting trapped in the case with the fan set to intake? If so, I guess the second top fan will help that. What are the sound levels like with intake vs exhaust?

I originally was planning to water cool my rig, but my use case has potentially changed over the past week or so and I may end up having to transport it more. Therefore, I am looking into air cooling instead. I'm planning to use only a 65W CPU, so was going to run in 3-slot GPU mode and have a low-profile CPU cooler with a deshrouded GPU. I value a quiet system, which makes the CPU cooler decision difficult. Black Ridge would be perfect but it seems the high-density fins result in a high pitched noise with any fan. I think it'll end up being a Cryorig C7 with a Noctua fan; I'd love the AXP90 but they're difficult to source in Oz. Still, I'm struggling with the idea of using a 92mm fan because I think it'll be noisier. I may end up just running in 2-slot GPU mode with the L12S.

I'm really interested to see your results with the L12S rotated 90 degrees and with an additional top fan set to exhaust. I had this thought where you have a CPU cooler that is 50mm high WITHOUT a fan. Have it oriented so that the fins run vertically, then use the top fan to suck air through it. It would need to be a beefy cooler though, and I'm not sure one exists that would work?! Maybe the L9x65? That's about the largest height wise that would fit without a fan. Still, the CPU might just run too hot.

 

[SSJ4]

If you go on the DAN A4 thread, Dan did a list of compatible 3080 GPU in his case (2 slots). So the same can be applied to the T1 in 2 slots mode (just for thickness).

DAN A4 3080 Compatibility List

Only the XC3 will fit, seems.

I thought the T1 in 2 slot mode was limited to purely 2 slot cards. Nothing bigger.

Meaning the evga card is out cos its 2.2 slot.

Is anyone running a 2.x slot card in their T1?

 

[fabio]

So, here the L12S 90 degrees TEST (Fans at 100% Exhausting):

L12S 90 degrees EXHAUST
CPU - 81C / 83.8max
GPU - 40C
SSDs - 49C (OS Front), 47C (Back)
VRM - 58C
CHIPSET - 63.5C
AMBIENT - 22,7C

Don't ask me why, but is worse! I've tried 3 times, reapplying the thermal paste, checking if the cooler has proper contact, etc.
With an intake fan on top, is even worse, trapping air intake for the CPU fan somehow.

Maybe I will try later today with an Exhaust fan on top, and the CPU fan exhausting as well for a FULL negative pressure system).
I think I will also try a static pressure optimized fan like the Arctic P12 to see if there are noticeable differences!

@ellroy80 YES! With the CPU fan in intake the hot air stay inside the case. Even with an exhaust fan on top (BUT I HAVE TO CONFIRM WITH AN HIGHER STATIC PRESSURE FAN) The bottom of the case is extremely hot!
For the cooler, don't forget the very good BlackRidge!

I did a test yesterday with the L12S 90 degrees to have the fins exhausting top and bottom as well, the CPU fan INTAKING, 2 top fans exhausting, but the temps were so bad! Like 90C on the CPU??? I think there were not enough space for the fans to breathe properly.

Also, I want to check the L12S with a KazeFlex Slim, having the hub smaller maybe helps to move more air through the cooler?

 

[fabio]

I thought the T1 in 2 slot mode was limited to purely 2 slot cards. Nothing bigger.

Meaning the evga card is out cos its 2.2 slot.

Is anyone running a 2.x slot card in their T1?

Well, there is still a mm from the side panel, so, let's hope!

 

[ellroy80]

I did a test yesterday with the L12S 90 degrees to have the fins exhausting top and bottom as well, the CPU fan INTAKING, top fan exhausting, but the temps were so bad! Like 90C on the CPU??? I think there is no space for the fans to breath properly.

Wow, that's surprising!!! That means that, so far, your best results have been obtained with the CPU fan exhausting and without (!) a top fan!! I wonder what would happen if you ran the case upside down so that you had a bottom fan as an intake? (while having the cooler around the correct way of course.

And my idea of semi-passive cooling is definitely not going to work. I've scrapped that one already.

 

[fabio]

Wow, that's surprising!!! That means that, so far, your best results have been obtained with the CPU fan exhausting and without (!) a top fan!! I wonder what would happen if you ran the case upside down so that you had a bottom fan as an intake? (while having the cooler around the correct way of course.

And my idea of semi-passive cooling is definitely not going to work. I've scrapped that one already.

Yes, I can try to flip the case!

 

[bowman9991]

Does anyone know when the USB C / SSD card reader front panel replacement for the T1 will be on sale? The T1 Front Panel Lid shown here:

FormD

Here's your gift card!

formdworks.com

It's been "Coming soon" since I first found the site. Does anyone know if it will be out before the end of the year?

Thanks,
John

 

[prava]

I've got my case set up in three slot mode and inverted the psu so that the fan is pointing inwards. That way it can suck the hot air from the 3090 and send it up to the radiator.

Late reply, but DON'T.

Current SFX power supplies are very efficient. This means that they produce very little heat themselves. What do you think will happen if you make them suck on 100+ W of heat when they themselves will never produce more than 60W or 75W (if we are talking about the SF600 and SF750)? Nothing good, I can tell you that. Nothing good.

It won't be very good that the case of the psu gets hot air from the gpu... but it will be very bad if they directly suck said hot air inside.

 

[Stinkybear]

I might have to flip the fan on my L12s to exhaust but I have the case with fans on the bottom as exhaust and 2 more top fans outside the case also exhausting so I'm already really negative pressure.

 

[PKAWA]

Late reply, but DON'T.

Current SFX power supplies are very efficient. This means that they produce very little heat themselves. What do you think will happen if you make them suck on 100+ W of heat when they themselves will never produce more than 60W or 75W (if we are talking about the SF600 and SF750)? Nothing good, I can tell you that. Nothing good.

It won't be very good that the case of the psu gets hot air from the gpu... but it will be very bad if they directly suck said hot air inside.

Thanks for the well thought out reply.
You might be right but I was thinking that exactly because they are so efficient with minimal to no cooling (hence the hybrid fan) that it might work.
I will monitor temps very carefully, and if it gets too hot I might just use the Bisky watercooling block with the add on sensor and a second 120mm radiator. with additional 25mm fan.
It's just that I want to try the simplest option first, before I buy a lot of stuff i don't need.
And frankly I really love the look of the new FE cards.

 

[prava]

https://noctua.at/en/nf-a12x15-pwm
vs
https://noctua.at/en/nf-a12x25-pwm/specification
airflow 94 vs 102 m³/h
quiet small difference !!
why you even bother with thicker fan.

.

Yeah... but look at the pressure difference, which is huge.

----

I really really want to get a FE RTX3080... but I'm wondering what will happen with the components inside my T1. 300+ W is not a small amount to be dissipated, specially with one of the fans blowing directly towards the psu.

Also, stock might be extremely limited on launch so... I'll either have to go and buy the 3080 blind... or wait weeks once we have reviews. Mmmmmmm.

 

[prava]

Thanks for the well thought out reply.
You might be right but I was thinking that exactly because they are so efficient with minimal to no cooling (hence the hybrid fan) that it might work.
I will monitor temps very carefully, and if it gets too hot I might just use the Bisky watercooling block with the add on sensor and a second 120mm radiator. with additional 25mm fan.
It's just that I want to try the simplest option first, before I buy a lot of stuff i don't need.
And frankly I really love the look of the new FE cards.

I believe you need to look at it the other direction. New psus can afford to operate passively precisely because they are so efficient. Efficiency means that the psu produces very little residual heat from converting 220AC to 12DC... but I doubt that they are designed to be able to absord 200% of they heat they are producing themselves. Because air from the gpu will be very hot, even if that exact fan is only cooling 100W worth of parts... it is a lot of heat.

IMO the FE is the one to go on a T1 (and I might pull the trigger myself on release... provided I make up my mind AND I can get one), but I would keep the psu the fan facing outside so that it gets cool air no matter what, and even in this position the psu itself will be getting hot air from the gpu, although only to the body itself so it won't be that bad.

At the same time, I don't like being forced to buy the FE from NVIDIA as I like the service and warranty that Amazon offers... and the RTX3080 being 320W tells me that AMD must have something decent or else NVIDIA would have never pushed the card so much.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[gwertheim]

So the EVGA XC3 2.2 slot will fit in the Ghost also ? Or does the Dan have more clearance ?

Your asking in the wrong place about those cases

 

[gwertheim]

SO, I am playing around a bit with the Air-cooled setup, trying different L12s orientation, fans intake/exhaust.
I did a Blender render test for 30min, with the CPU fan both in Intake and Exhaust.
Even if the CPU run a bit higher in temp, having the CPU fan in EXHAUST let all the other components to be cooler!
This is true of course with my AMD 3950X at stock and the Titan V with the Blower Cooler.

The results are (all panel closed and both fans at 100% - Top Noctua S12A Exhaust):

L12S INTAKE
CPU - 75C / 77max
GPU - 45C
SSDs - 55C (OS Front), 57C (Back)
VRM - 68C
CHIPSET - 64C
AMBIENT - 23,4C

-

L12S EXHAUST
CPU - 76C / 79max
GPU - 40C
SSDs - 40C (OS Front), 41C (Back)
VRM - 59C
CHIPSET - 54C
AMBIENT - 23,0C

Later I will try to rotate 90degrees the L12S and check if any difference! With this, I'll try also the second top fan as well if makes any change.

What about the L12 ghost edition.

I still have the OG L12 but don't have time to do the testing

 

[gwertheim]

Does anyone know when the USB C / SSD card reader front panel replacement for the T1 will be on sale? The T1 Front Panel Lid shown here:

FormD

Here's your gift card!

formdworks.com

It's been "Coming soon" since I first found the site. Does anyone know if it will be out before the end of the year?

Thanks,
John

Q4 or 2021

 

[PKAWA]

The unit can produce almost 1000watt before being cut off.
The fan won't even turn on before it hits 350watt.
I'll try to get the 3090 first and will decide from there after I have a feel for what the temps coming from that fan are actually like under load.

 

[fabio]

What about the L12 ghost edition.

I still have the OG L12 but don't have time to do the testing

The “Ghost Edition” is basically the L12 with the old B9 fan as well, BUT without the 120mm fan included ?

 

[Ashenfall]

The unit can produce almost 1000watt before being cut off.
The fan won't even turn on before it hits 350watt.
I'll try to get the 3090 first and will decide from there after I have a feel for what the temps coming from that fan are actually like under load.

problem is that fan coming on at 350W is what happens at 25C ambient, and most likely that's on an open bench

I suspect dumping a 3090's worth of exhaust straight into the PSU will cause the fan to turn on much earlier than 350W, but we won't know until testing

 

[prava]

The unit can produce almost 1000watt before being cut off.
The fan won't even turn on before it hits 350watt.
I'll try to get the 3090 first and will decide from there after I have a feel for what the temps coming from that fan are actually like under load.

Fan control has to be based on a mix of both wattage AND temperature. Because you could cook the psu just by using it at less than the starting wattage for the fan to start on a very hot environment, and it would be a huge design failure.

So, it certainly has both.

Now, the 750W unit from Corsair tops at 92% officiency at 100% load. Which means that, at such a load, it has to dissipate around 70W of heat.

Do you really think you can dump +100W inside and that nothing will happen?! Even if the product has been designed with a certain margin... it would make no sense to design a PSU that produces 75W TOPS to be able to handle double or more of said heat.

Also, I have found a review that states that the SF600s maximum operating temperature is 40ºC.

problem is that fan coming on at 350W is what happens at 25C ambient, and most likely that's on an open bench

I suspect dumping a 3090's worth of exhaust straight into the PSU will cause the fan to turn on much earlier than 350W, but we won't know until testing

Dumping Amperes heat into the PSU will exceed its maximum operating temperature, as it is rated for 40ºC max for its intake air.

 

[ghostfish]

I believe you need to look at it the other direction. New psus can afford to operate passively precisely because they are so efficient. Efficiency means that the psu produces very little residual heat from converting 220AC to 12DC... but I doubt that they are designed to be able to absord 200% of they heat they are producing themselves. Because air from the gpu will be very hot, even if that exact fan is only cooling 100W worth of parts... it is a lot of heat.

IMO the FE is the one to go on a T1 (and I might pull the trigger myself on release... provided I make up my mind AND I can get one), but I would keep the psu the fan facing outside so that it gets cool air no matter what, and even in this position the psu itself will be getting hot air from the gpu, although only to the body itself so it won't be that bad.

At the same time, I don't like being forced to buy the FE from NVIDIA as I like the service and warranty that Amazon offers... and the RTX3080 being 320W tells me that AMD must have something decent or else NVIDIA would have never pushed the card so much.

Decisions, decisions...

I think you're overly concerned about the PSU situation. The SF750 is rated for continuous 100% output at 50C ambient. The exhaust air from the flow through fan will likely get hotter than that running Furmark, but the PSU won't be anywhere near 100% loaded.

For ML or rendering workloads that keep the GPU and CPU 100% loaded for long periods, it's something to think about. For productivity or gaming workloads I don't think it matters.