Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[fabio]

I wonder if you can reverse the fan direction on the Nvidia 30XX via software, I know it's prob inefficient, but that's a big win for sandwiches cases.

Anyways, I ordered a custom power supply for RTX3090 anyways, so let's see how it goes.

Nice!!! I will not buy any 3080/3090 before I see the benchmarks, teardowns, etc! So it's good you will do the first tests! ?

 

[M-jeri]

Nice!!! I will not buy any 3080/3090 before I see the benchmarks, teardowns, etc! So it's good you will do the first tests! ?

 

[vusun123]

This image has been floating around the Vietnamese enthusiasts community for 4 days now. High chance this is an Asus RTX 3080 TUF gaming (FE cards aren't being sold here aside from importing personally), since the poster is Asus VN's product manager, and the tester is a prominent overclocker here. According to the tester, it's being tested on an open-bench test rig, room temperature of 25C, stock cooling config

 

[Luke NK]

Let me know if you need more info or tests!

Dear fabio,

You being the master crammer that you are and having done extensive tests in this case cramming rads, pumps, and even gpus! Is there any chance you could cram an a12x25 below the l12s instead of the slim fan?

I've seen mods like this before where people used vlp ram and even a mod where someone cut a portion of the frame of the fan so it can fit without interfering with ram. Maybe you can come out with something more interesting, or use a similar mod?

Anyways just interested in what you could do and how temps could improve with this config

 

[tinyitx]

Just because you could, does it mean you should ?

I bet, many would, regardless.

I wonder if you can reverse the fan direction on the Nvidia 30XX via software, I know it's prob inefficient, but that's a big win for sandwiches cases.

It is almost certainly inefficient as blades of PC fans are shaped directionally.

Nice!!! I will not buy any 3080/3090 before I see the benchmarks, teardowns, etc! So it's good you will do the first tests! ?

Patience is a virtue. 1st shipment will be usually small and be sold out in seconds anyway.
Tier 1 chips (cherry picked with best overclockability) are only about 10% reportedly. Most will go to FE cards. The remaining 90% are Tier 2 and 3 chips.

 

[fabio]

Dear fabio,

You being the master crammer that you are and having done extensive tests in this case cramming rads, pumps, and even gpus! Is there any chance you could cram an a12x25 below the l12s instead of the slim fan?

I've seen mods like this before where people used vlp ram and even a mod where someone cut a portion of the frame of the fan so it can fit without interfering with ram. Maybe you can come out with something more interesting, or use a similar mod?

Anyways just interested in what you could do and how temps could improve with this config

I had an A12x25 with the L12S inside my Lone L5, with VLP Ram and a SuperMicro MB. In that case the Intake is the solution for the CPU fan, and noise and temp where super good (but it was a 9900K locked at intel specs, so...).

But you have to change the mounting system from the spring mount version with the old L12 one without spring (I've just got it for free from Noctua because I've bought the L12 some time ago)

Sorry, I will no try it here, the X570 Motherboards don't really allow to do it properly, and because the AMD chips run pretty good with high frequency ram, ATM there are no VLP ram above 3200mhz, as far as I know!
But It is pretty doable in specific cases!

 

[fabio]

BTW, SOON I will sell a LOT OF MY GOODIES!!! EU preferred of course ?

 

[ellroy80]

@fabio, thank you for including the photo of the different setups. That makes things much clearer for me now. As they say, a picture paints a thousand words!

I have performed a very simple analysis of the data that you have posted so far. I have simply looked for which combination produces the highest and lowest temperatures. The results are VERY interesting. I did not normalise to ambient temperature because there was only a 0.7C degree difference between the highest and lowest ambient temperatures measured.

• The L12S intake, no fan on top combination produces a CPU temperature of 75C - only 1 degree warmer than the lowest temperature of 74C. However, it results in the highest GPU, SSD (front and back), and VRM temperatures. Furthermore, the chipset temperature is the second hottest measured. These results suggest that the cool air being sucked in from outside the case is doing a great job at keeping the CPU cool, but the warm air is then trapped within the case and heating everything else up. Rotating the cooler 90 degrees makes things even worse, consistent with Noctua's recommendation that the heatpipes should be facing up.
• The L12S 90 degrees intake, top A12x25 exhaust produces the lowest CPU and GPU temperatures (74C and 39C, respectively). The SSDs are the second coolest at 45C and 42C, while the cooling of the VRM (55C, third lowest) and chipset (58C, third lowest) is adequate. This is consistent with the above results, in that the top fan is removing the stagnant warm air from the case.
• The L12S exhaust, no fan on top results are quite remarkable. The CPU is the third coolest at 76C - only 2 degrees warmer than the coolest; and the GPU at 40C is only 1 degree warmer than the coolest (the coolest for both is in the setup immediately above). However, the front and rear SSDs are significantly cooler than in the setup immediately above (by 5 and 1 C, respectively), and the chipset is 4C cooler than in that immediately above. Clearly, the fan in exhaust works to pull air in from everywhere it can (which is probably literally from everywhere, given the amount of mesh in the case) and therefore helps to cool all components. The one exception to that rule are the VRMs, which are the second hottest at 59C.
• Having the top fan as intake produces the lowest VRM temperatures. This is not surprising given that the fan is blowing directly on the VRMs. However, the temperatures of most of the other components are worse than having the fan set to exhaust. I assume this is because the fan is pushing warm air back into the case.
• Surprisingly, having a bottom intake makes things worse when the L12S fan is set to exhaust. Perhaps this is because the bottom fan used is more powerful than that on the HSF, and therefore more air is being pushed in than exhausted out? If so, the additional air pushed in might be trapped and be stagnating in the case?

If all of my assumptions are correct, then:

• The coolest results would be observed with the heatpipes facing up, HSF fan set to intake, and an exhaust fan above the cooler. This doesn't look possible with your setup though, because the ends of the heatpipes are in the way of mounting a fan?
• The quietest setup of those tested is the L12S set to exhaust. Surprisingly, this produces great temperatures too (heatpipes need to be up, though). I wonder if the cooling potential of this setup would be improved by using a bottom intake fan (i.e. case flipped) that is the same model as that used on the L12S? i.e. an A12x15. This means that the air pulled in should be exhausted by the L12S fan, resulting in potentially less stagnant air in the case. Do you have another A12x15 to test this hypothesis?

Super interesting stuff!!! It has certainly got me thinking about how I might cool the CPU in my case. Heatpipe orientation (and CPU socket position as an extension of that), fan size, fan position relative to the case, and HSF fin density are all things to take into account. Thanks for doing all of this testing!!!

EDIT: @fabio, disregard my request above for an A12x15 bottom intake fan + exhaust setup. I think it all makes sense now, after a second look at your photos (as long as I'm interpreting them correctly). With the L12S fan set to exhaust and having no fan on top, cool air will be pulled from the bottom of the case, past the chipset and SSD, then out through the HSF. This is why the VRM cooling isn't great in this setup - air coming from the bottom of the case will be exhausted before it reaches them. If you flip the case, orient the HSF so the heatpipes face up, set the HSF fan to exhaust, and add a bottom intake fan, the VRM cooling should be better but the chipset/SSD temperatures should be worse because the cool air will be exhausted out by the HSF before it reaches them. I think.

 

[AP2]

Pretty excited for the 3090 - I already ripped apart my current nvlink 2080ti setup in preparation for it.

 

[fabio]

Almost correct! BUT:

• The L12S intake, no fan on top combination produces a CPU temperature of 75C - only 1 degree warmer than the lowest temperature of 74C. However, it results in the highest GPU, SSD (front and back), and VRM temperatures. Furthermore, the chipset temperature is the second hottest measured. These results suggest that the cool air being sucked in from outside the case is doing a great job at keeping the CPU cool, but the warm air is then trapped within the case and heating everything else up. Rotating the cooler 90 degrees makes things even worse, consistent with Noctua's recommendation that the heatpipes should be facing up.
  Actually Noctua suggests also the 90 degrees orientation.
  
  
• The L12S 90 degrees intake, top A12x25 exhaust produces the lowest CPU and GPU temperatures (74C and 39C, respectively). The SSDs are the second coolest at 45C and 42C, while the cooling of the VRM (55C, third lowest) and chipset (58C, third lowest) is adequate. This is consistent with the above results, in that the top fan is removing the stagnant warm air from the case.
• The L12S exhaust, no fan on top results are quite remarkable. The CPU is the third coolest at 76C - only 2 degrees warmer than the coolest; and the GPU at 40C is only 1 degree warmer than the coolest (the coolest for both is in the setup immediately above). However, the front and rear SSDs are significantly cooler than in the setup immediately above (by 5 and 1 C, respectively), and the chipset is 4C cooler than in that immediately above. Clearly, the fan in exhaust works to pull air in from everywhere it can (which is probably literally from everywhere, given the amount of mesh in the case) and therefore helps to cool all components. The one exception to that rule are the VRMs, which are the second hottest at 59C.
  
  
• Having the top fan as intake produces the lowest VRM temperatures. This is not surprising given that the fan is blowing directly on the VRMs. However, the temperatures of most of the other components are worse than having the fan set to exhaust. I assume this is because the fan is pushing warm air back into the case.
• Surprisingly, having a bottom intake makes things worse when the L12S fan is set to exhaust. Perhaps this is because the bottom fan used is more powerful than that on the HSF, and therefore more air is being pushed in than exhausted out? If so, the additional air pushed in might be trapped and be stagnating in the case?
  This is true with the S12A Fan. I am testing now the same setup with the A12x25.

If all of my assumptions are correct, then:

• The coolest results would be observed with the heatpipes facing up, HSF fan set to intake, and an exhaust fan above the cooler. This doesn't look possible with your setup though, because the ends of the heatpipes are in the way of mounting a fan?
  WELL, it is partially correct! I can mount a slim 92mm fan to help the exhaust... But the problem will still be the chipset and SSD temp IMO.
  
  
• The quietest setup of those tested is the L12S set to exhaust. Surprisingly, this produces great temperatures too (heatpipes need to be up, though). I wonder if the cooling potential of this setup would be improved by using a bottom intake fan (i.e. case flipped) that is the same model as that used on the L12S? i.e. an A12x15. This means that the air pulled in should be exhausted by the L12S fan, resulting in potentially less stagnant air in the case. Do you have another A12x15 to test this hypothesis?
  I can try it with the A12x25 (why the 15mm?), but I still think the best orientation of the case is with the fans on TOP! Especially with almost every NOT BLOWER GPU, that exhaust inside the case, top and bottom. (I am using a blower style now because I don't have an open style cooler ATM available).

Super interesting stuff!!! It has certainly got me thinking about how I might cool the CPU in my case. Heatpipe orientation (and CPU socket position as an extension of that), fan size, fan position relative to the case, and HSF fin density are all things to take into account. Thanks for doing all of this testing!!!

EDIT: disregard my request above for an A12x15 bottom intake fan + exhaust setup. I think it all makes sense now, after a second look at your photos (as long as I'm interpreting them correctly). With the L12S fan set to exhaust and having no fan on top, cool air will be pulled from the bottom of the case, past the chipset and SSD, then out through the HSF. This is why the VRM cooling isn't great in this setup - air coming from the bottom of the case will be exhausted before it reaches them. If you flip the case, orient the HSF so the heatpipes face up, set the HSF fan to exhaust, and add a bottom intake fan, the VRM cooling should be better but the chipset/SSD temperatures should be worse because the cool air will be exhausted out by the HSF before it reaches them. I think.

In general, the hot air has to be forced out. The top and bottom panel, and even more the mesh, don't allow the air to exhaust properly otherwise. I am finding them a bit compelling without any fan!

 

[BSartist]

Almost correct! BUT:

• The L12S intake, no fan on top combination produces a CPU temperature of 75C - only 1 degree warmer than the lowest temperature of 74C. However, it results in the highest GPU, SSD (front and back), and VRM temperatures. Furthermore, the chipset temperature is the second hottest measured. These results suggest that the cool air being sucked in from outside the case is doing a great job at keeping the CPU cool, but the warm air is then trapped within the case and heating everything else up. Rotating the cooler 90 degrees makes things even worse, consistent with Noctua's recommendation that the heatpipes should be facing up.
  Actually Noctua suggests also the 90 degrees orientation.
  
  
• The L12S 90 degrees intake, top A12x25 exhaust produces the lowest CPU and GPU temperatures (74C and 39C, respectively). The SSDs are the second coolest at 45C and 42C, while the cooling of the VRM (55C, third lowest) and chipset (58C, third lowest) is adequate. This is consistent with the above results, in that the top fan is removing the stagnant warm air from the case.
• The L12S exhaust, no fan on top results are quite remarkable. The CPU is the third coolest at 76C - only 2 degrees warmer than the coolest; and the GPU at 40C is only 1 degree warmer than the coolest (the coolest for both is in the setup immediately above). However, the front and rear SSDs are significantly cooler than in the setup immediately above (by 5 and 1 C, respectively), and the chipset is 4C cooler than in that immediately above. Clearly, the fan in exhaust works to pull air in from everywhere it can (which is probably literally from everywhere, given the amount of mesh in the case) and therefore helps to cool all components. The one exception to that rule are the VRMs, which are the second hottest at 59C.
  
  
• Having the top fan as intake produces the lowest VRM temperatures. This is not surprising given that the fan is blowing directly on the VRMs. However, the temperatures of most of the other components are worse than having the fan set to exhaust. I assume this is because the fan is pushing warm air back into the case.
• Surprisingly, having a bottom intake makes things worse when the L12S fan is set to exhaust. Perhaps this is because the bottom fan used is more powerful than that on the HSF, and therefore more air is being pushed in than exhausted out? If so, the additional air pushed in might be trapped and be stagnating in the case?
  This is true with the S12A Fan. I am testing now the same setup with the A12x25.

If all of my assumptions are correct, then:

• The coolest results would be observed with the heatpipes facing up, HSF fan set to intake, and an exhaust fan above the cooler. This doesn't look possible with your setup though, because the ends of the heatpipes are in the way of mounting a fan?
  WELL, it is partially correct! I can mount a slim 92mm fan to help the exhaust... But the problem will still be the chipset and SSD temp IMO.
  
  
• The quietest setup of those tested is the L12S set to exhaust. Surprisingly, this produces great temperatures too (heatpipes need to be up, though). I wonder if the cooling potential of this setup would be improved by using a bottom intake fan (i.e. case flipped) that is the same model as that used on the L12S? i.e. an A12x15. This means that the air pulled in should be exhausted by the L12S fan, resulting in potentially less stagnant air in the case. Do you have another A12x15 to test this hypothesis?
  I can try it with the A12x25 (why the 15mm?), but I still think the best orientation of the case is with the fans on TOP! Especially with almost every NOT BLOWER GPU, that exhaust inside the case, top and bottom. (I am using a blower style now because I don't have an open style cooler ATM available).

Super interesting stuff!!! It has certainly got me thinking about how I might cool the CPU in my case. Heatpipe orientation (and CPU socket position as an extension of that), fan size, fan position relative to the case, and HSF fin density are all things to take into account. Thanks for doing all of this testing!!!

EDIT: disregard my request above for an A12x15 bottom intake fan + exhaust setup. I think it all makes sense now, after a second look at your photos (as long as I'm interpreting them correctly). With the L12S fan set to exhaust and having no fan on top, cool air will be pulled from the bottom of the case, past the chipset and SSD, then out through the HSF. This is why the VRM cooling isn't great in this setup - air coming from the bottom of the case will be exhausted before it reaches them. If you flip the case, orient the HSF so the heatpipes face up, set the HSF fan to exhaust, and add a bottom intake fan, the VRM cooling should be better but the chipset/SSD temperatures should be worse because the cool air will be exhausted out by the HSF before it reaches them. I think.

In general, the hot air has to be forced out. The top and bottom panel, and even more the mesh, don't allow the air to exhaust properly otherwise. I am finding them a bit compelling without any fan!

I know it's not Noctua recommended (due to degraded performance), but can you try the L12S rotated 180 degrees with two fans on top? I'm curious how that compares to other orientations without the two fans.

Also from your pictures, a few orientations show the case is some form of disassembly. Is this purely for ease of working through the testing or are there fit issues with the cooler?

Sorry for the 20 questions! This is the exactly cooler I am targeting to pair with a RTX 3080. My T1 is coming in November and I'm in the research stage

Unrelated quick question: are you doing this out of suspicion that a 240mm radiator will inhibit exhaust too much for the dissipation from the RTX 30s? That's been my suspicion, but I'm hoping a few guinea pigs will test the viability of a good air cooler (L12S) vs. 120mm AIO vs. 240mm AIO.

 

[bynio]

I know it's not Noctua recommended (due to degraded performance), but can you try the L12S rotated 180 degrees with two fans on top? I'm curious how that compares to other orientations without the two fans.

Also from your pictures, a few orientations show the case is some form of disassembly. Is this purely for ease of working through the testing or are there fit issues with the cooler?

Sorry for the 20 questions! This is the exactly cooler I am targeting to pair with a RTX 3080. My T1 is coming in November and I'm in the research stage

Unrelated quick question: are you doing this out of suspicion that a 240mm radiator will inhibit exhaust too much for the dissipation from the RTX 30s? That's been my suspicion, but I'm hoping a few guinea pigs will test the viability of a good air cooler (L12S) vs. 120mm AIO vs. 240mm AIO.

I didn't see much difference between 90 and 180 intake on R5 3600. No additional fans.

 

[fabio]

I know it's not Noctua recommended (due to degraded performance), but can you try the L12S rotated 180 degrees with two fans on top? I'm curious how that compares to other orientations without the two fans.

Also from your pictures, a few orientations show the case is some form of disassembly. Is this purely for ease of working through the testing or are there fit issues with the cooler?

Sorry for the 20 questions! This is the exactly cooler I am targeting to pair with a RTX 3080. My T1 is coming in November and I'm in the research stage

Unrelated quick question: are you doing this out of suspicion that a 240mm radiator will inhibit exhaust too much for the dissipation from the RTX 30s? That's been my suspicion, but I'm hoping a few guinea pigs will test the viability of a good air cooler (L12S) vs. 120mm AIO vs. 240mm AIO.

I can try, maybe, tomorrow, but it is not in my priority, I did a previous test and with my CPU was reaching 98C! But we'll see, maybe was just placed badly!

The pictures are just to show the orientation. Regarding the case, I needed to remove 1 of the side structure to fit the CPU cooler in both the orientation everything stays in place, mounted and closed with no bulge, etc!

in the option with the heat pipes up, I can only have 1 fan on top, above the PSU.

 

[JRey]

First look at the RX 6000 heat sink, confirmed by Radeon on Twitter.
Radeon 6000 Heatsink

It looks to be a large card, very close to the Radeon 7990 which is ~12 inches (304mm). Based on the where the 2x 8-pins are located, water cooling with the DC-LT 2600 + 40 res may not be possible in in the location @fabio popularized.

Edit.
AMD added the card to some map in Fortnite. Here’s some screenshots showing the card along with the PCI-E connector for a size comparison.
https://t.co/pdysKfK7rc

 

[fabio]

I've UPDATED THE TESTS WITH 2 MORE + 1 EASTER EGG @Luke NK

Here the pictures for the easter egg!

To have the A12x25 mounted, I need the mounting brackets from the Noctua L12, without the spring, and the AM4 Kit from Noctua! (the mounting brackets are different from the one included in the L12S! But are the same of the L12, if you have one. You can swap the mounting systems between the two cooler without any problem)

Plus, I had to revert to the normal PSU cabling, because the J-Hack M2427 is too tall for the 25mm fan.

I am using VLP 2666MHz RAM Innodisk 2x16gb, Samsung B-Die, Running at 3200MHz 17,18,18,18,38 1,35V

But apart from these small details, it FITS without any modification my Gigabyte X570!

 

[DrHudacris]

First look at the RX 6000 heat sink, confirmed by Radeon on Twitter.
Radeon 6000 Heatsink

It looks to be a large card, very close to the Radeon 7990 which is ~12 inches (304mm). Based on the where the 2x 8-pins are located, water cooling with the DC-LT 2600 + 40 res may not be possible in in the location @fabio popularized.

Edit.
AMD added the card to some map in Fortnite. Here’s some screenshots showing the card along with the PCI-E connector for a size comparison.
https://t.co/pdysKfK7rc

Comparing to the PCI connector I'm getting closer to 280mm!

 

[Goatee]

I thought I would join in (temporarily) on the air cooling craze.

I had to stick a bypass in so my new (old) 2080ti can fit in and it runs rather nicely. I cant wait to get a block on it.

With a bit of an overclock its ~+50% over the (overclocked) 1080ti I had in before in this synthetic test.

 

[JRey]

Comparing to the PCI connector I'm getting closer to 280mm!

Even at 280mm, the T1 can only accommodate 312mm of GPU space.
the DC40 is 60x40x40mm, 8mm too thick.

I guess the only way to easily watercool is to use the LT Solo with a QDC for filling the loop.

 

[Goatee]

Even at 280mm, the T1 can only accommodate 312mm of GPU space.
the DC40 is 60x40x40mm, 8mm too thick.

I guess the only way to easily watercool is to use the LT Solo with a QDC for filling the loop.

Personally I would suggest a DDC based pump if you can, it has a much better noise profile than the dc-lt.

DDC based pump/cooler combo’s like the apogee / aquanaut / free flow are better options if you can get hold of one.

 

[JRey]

Personally I would suggest a DDC based pump if you can, it has a much better noise profile than the dc-lt.

DDC based pump/cooler combo’s like the apogee / aquanaut / free flow are better options if you can get hold of one.

I would prefer to use the freeflow since it's DDC-based but there's no release date... unless @Wahaha360 has a potential ETA? =)