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"SFF" Keyboards

What's the smallest you'd go with a keyboard?

  • 100%

    Votes: 21 7.6%
  • 80%

    Votes: 27 9.8%
  • 75%

    Votes: 54 19.6%
  • 60%

    Votes: 126 45.8%
  • 40%

    Votes: 23 8.4%
  • Electrodes implanted into brain, effectively 0%

    Votes: 16 5.8%
  • Something else

    Votes: 8 2.9%

  • Total voters
    275

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Original poster
Feb 28, 2015
3,243
2,361
freilite.com
I know it is sacrilege but I am still very fond of my nearly five year old and very SFF Logitech K810.

Eh, not necessarily. I don't know about this particular one, but dell makes some pretty good scissor-switch boards, and if they're well made they can actually have a very nice feel to them, as is Apple, Lenovo and Dell make evident on their laptop keyboards. Some people also like the more defined nature of some scissors compared to mechs. In general, mechanical switches are often thought of too religiously. As long as it feels good for you, there's no reason you shouldn't type on it.

The reason why many enthusiast rightfully despise scissors and rubber domes is because you can't really tune them. With mechanical switches you can swap housings, stems, springs and keycaps, install o-rings, landing pads and silencing clips or lube them on very specific areas. Clicky switches also allow jailhouse mods, which are quite cool. You can make variable weight/feel keyboards, you can install locking switches, you can do everything imaginable to make a board that fits you perfectly. With membrane-based boards, no such thing is possible. You either like what you get, or you don't. No way to really "make it yours".
 

ricochet

SFF AFFLICTED
Oct 20, 2016
547
345
Concur, I definitely love the feel of some mechanical keyboards but my Logitech K810 keys are so smooth. With excellent bluetooth (which has never failed me); ridiculously long battery life; and adjustable key back lighting I have been more than pleased with this sub 290 mm long keyboard.
 

GuilleAcoustic

Chief Procrastination Officer
SFFn Staff
LOSIAS
Jun 29, 2015
2,987
4,427
guilleacoustic.wordpress.com
fsociety keyboard: https://hackaday.io/project/13210-the-fsociety-keyboard

 

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Original poster
Feb 28, 2015
3,243
2,361
freilite.com

I'm going to be a party pooper here and say the presentation of this board is almost making me puke.
As a tech demo, it's fine, it's a cool project and neat to see that you can throw all of this stuff together on such a small space, but the visions they outline in the product descriptions are utter nonsense.

First off, store passwords on the keyboard and then make it connect to WiFi directly? What a great idea, that sure makes me feel safe. You could of course increase safety by having a separate EEPROM chip where the passwords are stored, but there's no mention of such a thing.

We often end up inputting the same damn-password so many times because most of those safe-secure password keeper are just too complicated to startup.

Well then make a macro for it, there's a good reason programmable keyboards exist. Using the same password because your password manager is too complicated to start up is like not fastening your seatbelt because it takes too much time.

HID such as keyboard has simply become an integral part of the society and also our primary window to the digital world.

No, they are an interface between man and machine. That's why they're called Human Interface Devices. The primary window to the digital world is the screen, not the keyboard. Keyboards are not a part of society, that's just overselling their importance.

This Project... [...] is not just about helping or assisting, but shaping the way you interact with the digital domain in a long term. Self-deactivation after hours in front of computer or automatically kill your browser in case you've been in social media for too long are just an example of how it can help shaping the better you.

Guess what, all of that stuff can already be done with simple scripts on your device. I see where they're coming from, but saying that making the keyboard much smarter is the ultimate solution is overstating it.

is not just about another keyboard that does Macro, but instead, it's all about a keyboard that generates its own macro depending on your surrounding and just the way you want it.

I wanna see that algorithm. And even if it existed, a simple ATMega2560 is far from a solid choice to run a machine learning algorithm that analyses your typing patterns and automatically generates macros from that. ARM-based boards already exist.

This board just feels like someone wanted to make a keyboard to fool around with, which it is, and then tried to find reasons why you'd actually want such a thing in your live after the fact.

And it's not like you'd have to hype it up anyway. It's packed full of neat little stuff that I'm sure people will find ways to do cool stuff with, whether it's useful or not. You wouldn't even have to use it as a keyboard to do fun stuff with it, and as just a keyboard it also has interesting ideas like the analogue sticks or the LEDs between the keys.
But this is not a revolution that will change the way we think about interacting with a computer, as much as the description wants to make me believe that.
 
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BirdofPrey

Standards Guru
Sep 3, 2015
797
493
In that case, you might want to consider a USB-to-USB adapter like the one Hasu makes. It's not the most beautiful solution, but it's the best you can do for making a stock board programmable, unless you get one where the controller can be swapped out, like the CoolerMaster Quick Fire boards or the HHKB.
No need to go that crazy; if I am not mistaken, there's programs that remap keys without any additional hardware.


I agree with @iFreilicht on most points. This sounds like a bunch of stuff cobbled together to sound cool more than to be useful.

Granted, I have though it would be neat to have a keyboard that could double as a Thunderbolt dock and/or contains some storage, and I've never been against keyboards with mice in them (though I think the best placement is near the thumbs so you don't actually have to take your hands off the keyboard (I'm also a heavy user of keyboard navigation, though, mind you, so the less time mousing the better.)
 

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Original poster
Feb 28, 2015
3,243
2,361
freilite.com
No need to go that crazy; if I am not mistaken, there's programs that remap keys without any additional hardware.

Yeah stuff like SharpKeys. Don't know whether there's something that allows the same flexibility of a programmable keyboard. So stuff like layers and toggle keys and tap dancing. But not everyone needs that kind of stuff.
 

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Original poster
Feb 28, 2015
3,243
2,361
freilite.com
My problem with the Yoda is the keycaps set issue due to the pointing stick.

That's a little annoying, but easily fixable with a small mod. However I wonder whether placing the track point somewhere else would be feasible.

Because as I see it, the most accuracy will be had with either the thumb, or the forefinger. The ergodox is one good candidate:



But what'd be even more interesting would be having a trackpoint in the middle section of an Atreus or similar split-angled board:



Maybe one could make a trackpoint fit where a key normally is, or on a board with a split spacebar put it between the two thumb-keys.
 
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XeaLouS

Cable-Tie Ninja
Dec 29, 2015
180
123
My Anne Pro finally arrived and tested it. I wrote some comments on reddit, but for anyone looking for a (cheap) 60% board:
  • The Anne Pro is fully programmable, but has a few annoying quirks
    • Fn + B/R/T/Y/U mess with LEDs/bluetooth so don't bind anything to them
    • Stabilizers are rattly. I think i can get a $3 fix for it though
    • Keycaps are Doubleshot PBT, but font isn't that great. Keys also aren't terribly thick, but aren't thin either.
    • Supports "full" remapping but you can't have two fn keys.
    • Heaps of cool RGB LED Effects
    • Bluetooth works flawlessly for me.
    • Supports multiple layouts - 3 default and one custom. Use LeftCtrl + RightCtrl to switch
    • Case isn't directly compatible with other 60% cases, but pcb/plate are smaller. You are basically getting the most compact 60% pcb on the market.
    • Case is apparently cheap and plasticy. In my experience its pretty good but i'm going to make a wooden one.
I solved all the keybinding issues in software (using autohotkey). If you want a high-quality and cheap 60% board, i recommend the Anne non-pro version ($35 usd + shipping, no bluetooth, no rebinding, only red LEDs) and using Autohotkey to rebind.

My next 60% is probably going to be either a GH60 or Infinity. Will probably wait a year before splurging.
 
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iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Original poster
Feb 28, 2015
3,243
2,361
freilite.com
The Anne Pro is fully programmable, but has a few annoying quirks
  • Fn + B/R/T/Y/U mess with LEDs/bluetooth so don't bind anything to them

It's not fully programmable if those functions can't be bound to anything else. Either way, the Anne Pro is a great board, saw your post of the box on reddit earlier ;)
 

iFreilicht

FlexATX Authority
Original poster
Feb 28, 2015
3,243
2,361
freilite.com
Topre shows variable actuation force switches with backlighting and Cherry-compatible stems. Proposed product is a full 104-key model.

They should sell parts kits and let the mad keyboard scientists go crazy!

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/topre-realforce-rgb-variable-actuation,31961.html

Yeah this was rumored to be a thing for quite some time now, glad to see they actually pulled through. I'd be interested to see how the lighting is implemented exactly.

The problem with topre kits is that the "switches" aren't separate but all on the same sheet of rubber, so it doesn't really make a lot of sense to ship the board disassembled.
 
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3lfk1ng

King of Cable Management
SFFn Staff
Bronze Supporter
Jun 3, 2016
918
1,717
www.reihengaming.com
While I like computers that are extremely tiny (don't we all?), I like and use my numpad far too much to completely get rid of it.
I dabble in 3D-Design and use the numpad for inputting values.

I wrote this keyboard review back in February but figured that it would be worth sharing with the community for anyone interested in full-size RGB keyboard.
It uses the elusive Cherry MX RGB Nature White switches (Linear, 45g).
Ducky Shine 5

If I were to get an SFF keyboard, I would get the Realforce 87U and accompany it with the Realforce 23UB when needed.
 
Last edited:
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