"SFF" Keyboards

[XeaLouS]

Mine is pretty empty as well: Keyboard Layout.
The thing is that I'm using space as Fn if it's held, which absolutely kills any game where you need the spacebar.

I'm not a fan of SpaceFN. I tried it out for 3 minutes and the space moving on release really quirks me out. That and the fact that pretty much every game ever will break.

I believe the optimal layout (for me) would have two function keys, one on either caps/ctrl and the other near right windows. That way you can do one handed shortcuts with both hands.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/a1f572fb6bfb0f1f1556a055e398c3ea

 

[iFreilicht]

That and the fact that pretty much every game ever will break.

And that's why I got a key to disable it. And for my next board, I'll have split space anyway so it won't be much of a problem anymore.

I believe the optimal layout (for me) would have two function keys, one on either caps/ctrl and the other near right windows. That way you can do one handed shortcuts with both hands.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/a1f572fb6bfb0f1f1556a055e398c3ea

Looks good and useable, though I would rather put the left thumb cluster on ESDF as opposed to WASD. It's directly beneath your fingertips on homerow anyway.

 

[BirdofPrey]

OK, now I am super pissed as I type this on my phone. My Razer keyboard (black widow I think) suddenly up and died on me. CTRL was stuck at first then all of a sudden while I tried to troubleshoot, nothing.

Already hated this Razer piece of crap for a while now anyway. Mainly because the software is crappie and SOMEHOW they manage to put the "would you like to install our software" popup in the Windows installation environment.

I'm grabbing this for now since it looks decent and more importantly, is cheap and should arrive today, but I am probably going to replace it.

At the very least it means I can try out a TKL keyboard, and see if I like it. Not so happy about the lack of dedicated F keys, but whatever (and why does nobody ever find room for a Fn key on the left? Sometimes I like keeping my hand on my mouse,) but at least it will break me of my F2 habit on starcraft.

Anyways I need some suggestions for a replacement.
I use tactile keys so blue or red keyswitches are a must, and aside from that I want to get a floating key design to hopefully have less crap collect under the keys (mostly dust and cat fur), but those are hard to come by. I'd love an integrated USB hub or at least pass-through for my wireless receivers. Don't care about lighting as long as I can turn it off (and when it is on, I like it super dim).
We'll see how much I miss the num pad.

 

[iFreilicht]

OK, now I am super pissed as I type this on my phone. My Razer keyboard (black widow I think) suddenly up and died on me. CTRL was stuck at first then all of a sudden while I tried to troubleshoot, nothing.

Already hated this Razer piece of crap for a while now anyway. Mainly because the software is crappie and SOMEHOW they manage to put the "would you like to install our software" popup in the Windows installation environment.

Another one for the statistics. Razer isn't recommended in enthusiast circles for a reason.

I'm grabbing this for now since it looks decent and more importantly, is cheap and should arrive today, but I am probably going to replace it.

The Magicforce is a pretty popular board, actually. Pretty good quality for the price. Though I would've advised you to invest another 30 bucks to get Gateron Blue switches over the Outemu blues.

At the very least it means I can try out a TKL keyboard, and see if I like it. Not so happy about the lack of dedicated F keys, but whatever (and why does nobody ever find room for a Fn key on the left? Sometimes I like keeping my hand on my mouse,) but at least it will break me of my F2 habit on starcraft.

Because standard bottom row. Three 1.25u keys on the left, 6.25u spacebar, four 1.25 keys on the right. This is the layout that is dictated by the ANSI and ISO standard layout specifications, so most boards use it and all keycap sets support it. You can decide to not use standard cap sizes, but that means that aftermarket sets are less likely to fit your board.
A cool example is the Filco MiniLa Air:

It even has a non-standard stagger on R2 to fit the arrow keys in, which is quite neat.

Anyways I need some suggestions for a replacement.
I use tactile keys so blue or red keyswitches are a must, and aside from that I want to get a floating key design to hopefully have less crap collect under the keys (mostly dust and cat fur), but those are hard to come by. I'd love an integrated USB hub or at least pass-through for my wireless receivers. Don't care about lighting as long as I can turn it off (and when it is on, I like it super dim).
We'll see how much I miss the num pad.

Hm, integrated USB hub is hard to get with boards that are both smaller than 100% and have floating keys. I think your best bet is to post in the "What keyboard should I buy?"-thread on /r/mechanicalkeyboards, maybe someone knows a board like this. You might have to look into doing a custom build or at least a mod of an existing board.

 

[BirdofPrey]

Holy crap this thing is tiny.
Also loud (there was an Amazon review that claims the keyswitch activation force was somewhere between MX Blues ans Green, despite ostensibly being an MX blue clone) Need to get some o-Rings,

Another one for the statistics. Razer isn't recommended in enthusiast circles for a reason.

I bought it before I would have really considered myself an enthusiast. At that point in time, all I really knew was that I preferred the clicky keys over non-clicky and don't really like linear switches. More, importantly, Frys pretty much only carries the major brands which is exactly the opposite of the best keyboards (mechanical or not)

The Magicforce is a pretty popular board, actually. Pretty good quality for the price. Though I would've advised you to invest another 30 bucks to get Gateron Blue switches over the Outemu blues.

Good to know. As I said, the reviews seemed pretty good, the negative reviews were standard junk, and most review were positive. Gateron switches would have been nice, but as I mentioned before, I was looking for something with same day delivery which severely limited my options.

Because standard bottom row. Three 1.25u keys on the left, 6.25u spacebar, four 1.25 keys on the right. This is the layout that is dictated by the ANSI and ISO standard layout specifications, so most boards use it and all keycap sets support it. You can decide to not use standard cap sizes, but that means that aftermarket sets are less likely to fit your board.

case in point, this keyboard doesn't have standard sized keys on the bottom row. Anyways, the way I see it, there's still a couple options whther it's reusing capslock as Fn or using the windows key and making the original function and Fn command. Those are, after all, the most changed/disabled keys, so it's a good use.

Hm, integrated USB hub is hard to get with boards that are both smaller than 100% and have floating keys. I think your best bet is to post in the "What keyboard should I buy?"-thread on /r/mechanicalkeyboards, maybe someone knows a board like this. You might have to look into doing a custom build or at least a mod of an existing board.

Indeed. USB hubs/passthroughs aren't exactly common even on generic fullsized keyboards, which i a shame, since they can be rather useful. For me I like them since my mouse is wireless so having the receiver right next to the mouse minimizes interference and gives me the best signal quality, something I can't get from the USB ports on the back of my PC. I also have a wireless module for my Wacom tablet.


A keyboard I've been eyeing for a while is the DSX that comes up on Massdrop from time to time, but I just never seem pull the trigger on it. It's not exactly cheap (and most drops aren't actually significantly discounted from what you can buy from Amazon or other large volume stores, though this is only available through massdrop as far as I can tell), and, as is seemingly the Massdrop norm, takes forever to ship.

I've dreamed of making my own, custom keyboard, but haven't found the time to fully research things, let alone build it, and I definitely would rather make a custom PCB rather than manually soldering dozens of wires even if it is more expensive and requires more, proper engineering which makes it even more of an undertaking,

 

[Phuncz]

Yesterday I opened up my Corsair K70 (non RGB) mostly out of curiosity but also to see if I could do anything about the flaky volume scroll wheel (it's all over the place in one direction). After removing almost twenty screws from between the keys, there was also one located below the logo (!) and another one below the round cap next to the scroll wheel at the outer top right edge.

But to my regret, it wasn't an optical scroll wheel with a hair in front of it but a "rotary pulse encoder" if I'm interpreting it correctly.
The PCB that has the switches and the aluminium faceplate seem inseperable without removing the switches, which are soldered on the PCB. But that shouldn't be a surprise for a major brand keyboard. The screw below the stick-on logo, which isn't easily replaced, is a cheap shot in my opinion. But I didn't mind fixing it back in place, one of the edges wasn't quite flush when I got it, so I made it straight (thin piece of metal), removed all the glue residue and applied new glue.

 

[BirdofPrey]

Well, since this keyboard was already cheap as dirt, I don't feel bad about also ordering a 6' USB cable and some sound dampening o-rings. The stock cable is too short, so I had to move my PC, which make accessing the front panel inconvenient, but having a removable cable has its benefits. The switches themselves aren't too loud, but the keycaps are echo chambers

The lack of dedicated home and end keys is already starting to bug me. I use those keys for text editing more often than I use PgUp/PgDn for moving the view so I kinda wish Home/End were the main keys with PgUp/PgDn on the Fn layer. Lack of F keys is whatever, we'll see on the lack of a numpad; I haven't done any data entry today.


@Phuncz, why were you expecting it to be optical at all? Rotary pulse encoder seems the obvious choice to me.

 

[Phuncz]

@Phuncz, why were you expecting it to be optical at all? Rotary pulse encoder seems the obvious choice to me.

Well I was hoping it was, atleast then I could easily fix the problem. But as I said, mostly out of curiosity. I can't even count how many items I've opened "to take a looksy" when I was feeling the slightest amount of boredom.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

Opening is the first proof of intelligence. Guess I'd have hoped for optical too, only to be disappointed with pulse counter

 

[iFreilicht]

case in point, this keyboard doesn't have standard sized keys on the bottom row. Anyways, the way I see it, there's still a couple options whther it's reusing capslock as Fn or using the windows key and making the original function and Fn command. Those are, after all, the most changed/disabled keys, so it's a good use.

Are you talking about your Magicforce? That seems pretty standard to me, it's just missing one key on the main cluster, but they are all the correct size.

The PCB that has the switches and the aluminium faceplate seem inseperable without removing the switches, which are soldered on the PCB. But that shouldn't be a surprise for a major brand keyboard.

That's just how keyboard switches are designed. The switches are clicked into the plate from the top, so once they're soldered in, there's no way to get the plate off without desoldering them all.

The lack of dedicated home and end keys is already starting to bug me. I use those keys for text editing more often than I use PgUp/PgDn for moving the view so I kinda wish Home/End were the main keys with PgUp/PgDn on the Fn layer. Lack of F keys is whatever, we'll see on the lack of a numpad; I haven't done any data entry today.

Sounds like you need a programmable keyboard! Endless customisation options.

You wouldn't have to go that far to get what you want, though. All you'd have to do is get a kit together of PCB, case, and maybe plate of a layout you want, then screw standoffs into the case to raise the PCB to get floating keys and then use the space that you made that way to install a USB hub inside the case. Make a cutout for three ports, solder the fourth one to the input USB of the PCB and you're done. Some PCBs even have pin header pads for the USB connection, which would make that part easier.

You can reuse the switches from the board you got now to save money, too.

 

[Phuncz]

That's just how keyboard switches are designed. The switches are clicked into the plate from the top, so once they're soldered in, there's no way to get the plate off without desoldering them all.

I always thought there were plenty of boards with replaceable switches. Not that I need different switches, but the idea appeals to me

 

[EdZ]

You can replace individual switches (desolder the switch, then unclip from the plate and lift out) but if you need to get the plate out you need to desolder every switch.

 

[Phuncz]

That sounds like something that's not worth my time to on 104 switches. Especially since they'd need to be resoldered back eventually.
So these aren't offered in friction-fit sockets ever ?

 

[iFreilicht]

That sounds like something that's not worth my time to on 104 switches. Especially since they'd need to be resoldered back eventually.
So these aren't offered in friction-fit sockets ever ?

Yes they are, and you can actually build a board like that yourself, which is what I'll be trying to do for my next one. Search for "keyboard hot swappable switches", you'll find a good bit of info on that.

 

[Phuncz]

Ah yes, the Wooting board also is going to have these. I keep ending up at their site, sooner or later I'll end up with one of their keyboards.

 

[iFreilicht]

Ah yes, the Wooting board also is going to have these. I keep ending up at their site, sooner or later I'll end up with one of their keyboards.

Wootings optical switches aren't compatible with any other switch-type, though, so you'll be limited to whatever switches they offer.

 

[BirdofPrey]

Are you talking about your Magicforce? That seems pretty standard to me, it's just missing one key on the main cluster, but they are all the correct size.

Ah you're right. I has thought they were smaller since it wasn't a full sizes row, but I did notice they were one of the standardly uses sizes.

Sounds like you need a programmable keyboard! Endless customisation options.

You wouldn't have to go that far to get what you want, though. All you'd have to do is get a kit together of PCB, case, and maybe plate of a layout you want, then screw standoffs into the case to raise the PCB to get floating keys and then use the space that you made that way to install a USB hub inside the case. Make a cutout for three ports, solder the fourth one to the input USB of the PCB and you're done. Some PCBs even have pin header pads for the USB connection, which would make that part easier.

You can reuse the switches from the board you got now to save money, too.

Programmable keyboards are nice, though I'm not as sold on a kit since most of them are in more or less the same standard TKL or 60% layouts with only a little bit of leeway for altering the layout, so I might as well get an already built one.

 

[iFreilicht]

Programmable keyboards are nice, though I'm not as sold on a kit since most of them are in more or less the same standard TKL or 60% layouts with only a little bit of leeway for altering the layout, so I might as well get an already built one.

In that case, you might want to consider a USB-to-USB adapter like the one Hasu makes. It's not the most beautiful solution, but it's the best you can do for making a stock board programmable, unless you get one where the controller can be swapped out, like the CoolerMaster Quick Fire boards or the HHKB.

 

[yoyo55]

Love my new Magicforce 68.....gonna switch over to the WhiteFox when i get delivery of it in November and use the magicforce for my secondary system

 

[ricochet]

I know it is sacrilege but I am still very fond of my nearly five year old and very SFF Logitech K810.