Completed S401: Salvo Studios <8L mITX Steel Unibody Chassis w/ GPU & CPU fans in same direction

Poblopuablo

King of Cable Management
Jan 14, 2018
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@grsychckn do you have a link for the rubberized stickers you provided with the s400 stand? They worked well and could be an easy alternative to coating the stand with a spray adhesive that would likely be unreversable.


Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LXNE096/?tag=theminutiae-20

But the ones you included were not nearly are textured as the one I linked (IIRC).
 
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grsychckn

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grsychckn

SFF Guru
Original poster
Salvo Studios
Oct 11, 2017
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Update: I've been convinced I need to pursue the S402. My goal will be to try and get the design completed early summer so the prototype can be made around May/June. I am quite sure I won't need as many prototypes because it will be a revision of the S401. I'm going to start a new thread once I have some of the CAD design completed so I can present it with the list of changes I intend on making.

One thing though: I'm torn about making the case wider as the main benefit is to support larger CPU coolers, but I'm not sure that a volume increase of 20-25% justifies the decision. 120mm AIO coolers will have official support in the S402 so that would be one way to address the CPU cooling, but even with my 9900K I'm not finding it impossible to cool and keep quiet when using one set of panel spacers. Maybe the solution is to only increase the thickness to the current width when one set of panel spacers is installed. Let me know your thoughts those of you who follow this thread.
 

grsychckn

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Oct 11, 2017
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Update: I've been convinced I need to pursue the S402. My goal will be to try and get the design completed early summer so the prototype can be made around May/June. I am quite sure I won't need as many prototypes because it will be a revision of the S401. I'm going to start a new thread once I have some of the CAD design completed so I can present it with the list of changes I intend on making.

One thing though: I'm torn about making the case wider as the main benefit is to support larger CPU coolers, but I'm not sure that a volume increase of 20-25% justifies the decision. 120mm AIO coolers will have official support in the S402 so that would be one way to address the CPU cooling, but even with my 9900K I'm not finding it impossible to cool and keep quiet when using one set of panel spacers. Maybe the solution is to only increase the thickness to the current width when one set of panel spacers is installed. Let me know your thoughts those of you who follow this thread.

Update #2: Got my taxes back from the accountant today only to discover that I am going to owe a little more than I thought. This means a large sum of the capitol I planned on using for my next project is going to be required for taxes. On top of this, I was given a quarterly tax schedule based on my revenues to help avoid any penalties next year when filing. When a business begins reporting over a certain amount of revenue each year, the IRS requires a quarterly voucher be paid so they can be sure they get their money before the business can declare bankruptcy. Otherwise, there is a penalty to be paid when filing the taxes for that year. In summary, this will have an impact on future projects I have planned.

On a separate note, I got a quote for the C7 90-degree AM4 adapter brackets. It looks like I'll be able to offer them around $12 + shipping. I'm going to buy a small lot of them and hope to have them available within the next month or so.
 

Linero

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Feb 9, 2017
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After reading about the rough time you are having to handle taxes and payments, I hope your next project goes well and smooth!

That being said, my feedback would be to try and go back to the S400 look. The beehive holes on the S401 is what ultimately made me uninterested in the whole product, sorry. I might be exaggerating, but that's just me and I am not able to stand how wide these holes look. Also, increasing the size of the case to support anything extra wouldn't be the best idea for a wider audience. I am personally interested in this project due to how to portable and small this case is. A bigger case would be against what people came here for in the first place.

Take my feedback and assumptions with a grain of salt. I hope they help though.
Wishing you the best =)
 
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rfarmer

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Jul 7, 2017
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Update: I've been convinced I need to pursue the S402. My goal will be to try and get the design completed early summer so the prototype can be made around May/June. I am quite sure I won't need as many prototypes because it will be a revision of the S401. I'm going to start a new thread once I have some of the CAD design completed so I can present it with the list of changes I intend on making.

One thing though: I'm torn about making the case wider as the main benefit is to support larger CPU coolers, but I'm not sure that a volume increase of 20-25% justifies the decision. 120mm AIO coolers will have official support in the S402 so that would be one way to address the CPU cooling, but even with my 9900K I'm not finding it impossible to cool and keep quiet when using one set of panel spacers. Maybe the solution is to only increase the thickness to the current width when one set of panel spacers is installed. Let me know your thoughts those of you who follow this thread.

I think increasing the CPU cooler height would be a good idea, you could also add support for 3 slot GPUs by doing that. Not something I am looking for personally but a lot of people in this forum are pushing for 3 slot GPU support.
 

annasoh323

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Apr 4, 2018
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Update: I've been convinced I need to pursue the S402. My goal will be to try and get the design completed early summer so the prototype can be made around May/June. I am quite sure I won't need as many prototypes because it will be a revision of the S401. I'm going to start a new thread once I have some of the CAD design completed so I can present it with the list of changes I intend on making.

One thing though: I'm torn about making the case wider as the main benefit is to support larger CPU coolers, but I'm not sure that a volume increase of 20-25% justifies the decision. 120mm AIO coolers will have official support in the S402 so that would be one way to address the CPU cooling, but even with my 9900K I'm not finding it impossible to cool and keep quiet when using one set of panel spacers. Maybe the solution is to only increase the thickness to the current width when one set of panel spacers is installed. Let me know your thoughts those of you who follow this thread.
Whoa, when did this happen? Best of luck! Re: CPU coolers, it depends on which units you intend on supporting. If the biggest you would want to go is, say, the Big Shuriken 2 Rev B at around 60ish mm, that's one thing, while the Noctua L12 series would be another class. Personally, I'm still pretty happy with my C7 + fans setup but I'm not sure how that'd handle a higher TDP chip. Interested to hear the developments of your 9900K testing.
Update #2: Got my taxes back from the accountant today only to discover that I am going to owe a little more than I thought. This means a large sum of the capitol I planned on using for my next project is going to be required for taxes. On top of this, I was given a quarterly tax schedule based on my revenues to help avoid any penalties next year when filing. When a business begins reporting over a certain amount of revenue each year, the IRS requires a quarterly voucher be paid so they can be sure they get their money before the business can declare bankruptcy. Otherwise, there is a penalty to be paid when filing the taxes for that year. In summary, this will have an impact on future projects I have planned.

On a separate note, I got a quote for the C7 90-degree AM4 adapter brackets. It looks like I'll be able to offer them around $12 + shipping. I'm going to buy a small lot of them and hope to have them available within the next month or so.
Uncle Sam always gets his cut, huh... Just mailed out the last of my tax forms yesterday. Hopefully, I'm done for the year with that. Good news about the brackets though. Next upgrade is still mentally reserved for AM4 so this is good to know.
I think increasing the CPU cooler height would be a good idea, you could also add support for 3 slot GPUs by doing that. Not something I am looking for personally but a lot of people in this forum are pushing for 3 slot GPU support.
I know he's been thinking of implementing his flex slot idea from the S700 but how that impacts AIO support, drive, support, and video card support are an unknown to me. If you could fit a three-slot card AND a ton of drives, that'd be pretty neat. Is this where my scorn for the fatty EVGA 2060 comes back to bite me?
After reading about the rough time you are having to handle taxes and payments, I hope your next project goes well and smooth!

That being said, my feedback would be to try and go back to the S400 look. The beehive holes on the S401 is what ultimately made me uninterested in the whole product, sorry. I might be exaggerating, but that's just me and I am not able to stand how wide these holes look. Also, increasing the size of the case to support anything extra wouldn't be the best idea for a wider audience. I am personally interesting in this project due to how to portable and small this case is. A bigger case would be against what people came here for in the first place.

Take my feedback and assumptions with a grain of salt. I hope they help though.
Wishing you the best =)
Still hoping he finds that perfect balance between airflow and aesthetics. The honeycomb pattern is AWESOME from an airflow perspective. I'd hate to lose that but I am sympathetic to the aesthetic concerns. Hopefully, there's another tesselating sort of pattern that works for all of the relevant design considerations.
 

vanbeveren

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Mar 21, 2019
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I really like the build quality of the case but I do kind of wish that the holes were all just a little bit smaller and it had an ever so slightly more closed feeling to it at least.

You see so much of what’s inside right now that it can feel like a barely enclosed test bench to some extent.

btw: Thanks for getting me hooked on this stuff… LOL

I just bought one of those Lone L5 cases today...ha!
 

Piewalker

Trash Compacter
Jul 3, 2018
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I really like the build quality of the case but I do kind of wish that the holes were all just a little bit smaller and it had an ever so slightly more closed feeling to it at least.

You see so much of what’s inside right now that it can feel like a barely enclosed test bench to some extent.

btw: Thanks for getting me hooked on this stuff… LOL

I just bought one of those Lone L5 cases today...ha!
Have to disagree. The vented hex pattern has much better airflow than pinholes, something I desperately needed in my fully water-cooled build. Aesthetically, I love the hex pattern. But ideally to appease both camps, it'd be great to have two different airflow patterns to choose from from the get-go, or at least offer additional airflow design patterns that can be customized with the current acrylic panel set up.
 

vanbeveren

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Mar 21, 2019
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Have to disagree. The vented hex pattern has much better airflow than pinholes, something I desperately needed in my fully water-cooled build. Aesthetically, I love the hex pattern. But ideally to appease both camps, it'd be great to have two different airflow patterns to choose from from the get-go, or at least offer additional airflow design patterns that can be customized with the current acrylic panel set up.

I don’t really have a problem with the hex pattern, I’m just not sure I like the hex openings being so large and there being so many of them (especially on front panel).

Ideally just offering different metal side panels would be best - but perhaps really prohibitive on the cost side.

I just wish there were less openings - not by a lot - just a bit less
 

grsychckn

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It's still amazing to me how polarizing my choice of the hex pattern was (including the size of the holes). I've got a lot of time to play with patterns and I think I'm going to start in a few weeks and post some samples to the new thread for feedback. Right now, I'm leaning towards a triangle-based hole punch tool and making a pattern from that base shape.

Different side panels would be cost prohibitive as I'd have to make multiple designs and then order quantities based on my estimations for desirability. Regardless, a less polarizing pattern solves a lot of problems.

Right now, my plan is to remove the front vent holes and move the power button back to the middle (probably going to drop SFX-L support as the SF750 is just as good as any SFX-L). I'm constantly trying to reduce the number of parts required while also not making things more complicated. The solid side panel is only necessary to cover the mounting hardware and the mainboard rear access hole. I think if I can use the flex slot for the GPU area, I'll be able to remove nearly all the embossed screw holes which then only leaves the mainboard hole to figure out. If I make the case about 7mm wider, it will support the BS2 and IS-60 coolers and I shouldn't need to offer panel spacers. I also don't currently plan on making a handle.

I'd really love to have the base design ready by June for the Ryzen 3000 series, but it's not likely to be possible until late fall. But at least that gives me lots of time to tweak and improve the design before manufacturing.

Thanks to everyone for being respectful and for the kind words. Receiving feedback that helps the design evolve is very valuable to me.
 

vanbeveren

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Mar 21, 2019
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It's still amazing to me how polarizing my choice of the hex pattern was (including the size of the holes).

And just to be clear - nothing about the current setup is a deal breaker (obviously, since I have one)..
Just sharing thoughts if I had my way - which I certainly don't ever expect! :-)

Don't change this one thing though.
Build quality.

Good lord this thing is a TANK and I LOVE LOVE LOVE that!!

(maybe make some rubber foot pad options though - hah)
 

Linero

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Feb 9, 2017
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Right now, my plan is to remove the front vent holes and move the power button back to the middle (probably going to drop SFX-L support as the SF750 is just as good as any SFX-L).
Could not agree with this plan more. Please do it!

Also, while I did complain about the size and pattern of the holes. I think decreasing the size would have a more positive impact on aesthetics than the pattern. Ultimately, changing both would be ideal here. If it it's possible, of course.
 
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Piewalker

Trash Compacter
Jul 3, 2018
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Right now, I'm leaning towards a triangle-based hole punch tool and making a pattern from that base shape.

Recently on one of his live streams, Josh @NFC said his patented SKYSLOTS on the S4MINI were specifically designed because of their aerodynamic properties. I believe he actually consulted with an aerodynamics engineer and noted that, for some reason, that slot style has some inherently advantageous characteristic that promotes both air inflow and outflow compared to other vent styles.

This may have something to do with their curved aspect of the openings and their size (volume) compared to more angular openings. Openings with more angles may be deleterious, since air flowing into or around any angle (especially those acute angles that form a triangle) can bunch up more and create more turbulence compared to a shape with no angles, such as a circle or elongated circle. Again, we want as much LAMINAR airflow as possible and want to avoid TURBULENT airflow. Circles and their variations will do that more than triangles.

In the past year, I've personally written a number of peer-reviewed manuscripts on obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and airway characteristics. Volume AND shape of the airway are very important to promote a laminar flow. In other words, even if you increase airway volume, air flow path can still be turbulent, thus shape of the airway is still a critical factor, just like the shape of a wing or elevator or engine cowl. Of course, with OSA we're talking airway dynamics in terms of cylinders, but my point is I believe the same principles can apply to vents to some degree.

Take this FANTASTIC study on different fan vents, Effects of Grill Patterns on Fan Performance/Noise:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/.
It was published back in 2011 by Puget Systems, a custom PC shop outside Seattle. These are the patterns they tested:



Their conclusion was based on both noise and airflow (remember, both greater noise and impaired airflow are factors that are directly caused by more TURBULENT airflow).

They ranked the patterns from best to worse:
  1. Wire
  2. Swirl
  3. Loose Swirl
  4. Stamped Circles
  5. Honeycomb
  6. Mesh
  7. Concentric Circles
  8. Angled Slats
  9. Turbine
Honeycomb is right in the middle and performs decently. We can't fault the honeycomb in the S401 at all because I think it does the job nicely. I applaud that @grsychckn chose honeycomb over the stamped circles (pinhole mesh, basically), the latter of which causes a high-pitch whine. But there's another factor here favorable to the honeycombs: the struts separating them essentially act create a small hex cylinder (3mm or so), or in other words act as fins directing airflow out. If you had a pattern with larger dead areas in-between, you'd impede airflow. Even if triangles are chosen, keep them as close together as possible to maximize airflow by decreasing the area of obstruction as much as possible.

My vote would be a variation of the Loose Swirl (#3). I would think we want to avoid the more fragile arms of the typical #2 Swirl pattern. Just like #2, #3 Loose Swirl is essentially a skewed triangle but with more curvature in the acute angles. Its angles are not necessarily super-hard angles like the #2 Swirl pattern, and they have more volume. I'm solidly in favor of larger vent openings (greater volume). I would modify #3 even more to make both ends more curved, say like a twisting tear drop.

Right now, my plan is to remove the front vent holes and move the power button back to the middle (probably going to drop SFX-L support as the SF750 is just as good as any SFX-L).
Please keep SFX-L support! It's all I'll ever use because of the larger, quieter fan. We can argue all day about pros and cons, but SFX-L is popular, and I'd hate to see others choose a different case based on incompatibility with SFX-L.

I'm constantly trying to reduce the number of parts required while also not making things more complicated. The solid side panel is only necessary to cover the mounting hardware and the mainboard rear access hole. I think if I can use the flex slot for the GPU area, I'll be able to remove nearly all the embossed screw holes which then only leaves the mainboard hole to figure out.

@grsychckn

What do you mean "use the flex slot for the GPU area"? Do you mean have an opening on the backside of the chassis in the GPU area? That would be VERY flexible so I won't have to cut out the chassis to make way for fans on that side. If you recall, my build has the GPU on the bottom of the chassis laying against the solid wall. If that side was also vented with whatever pattern you end up choosing, or if you make that back lower half a removable "flex" panel, I could put the radiator/fans on the bottom and bring the GPU to the top side where its plexi-water-RGB glory can be seen.
 

Thehack

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Mar 6, 2016
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At the end of the day, we can sum it up to perforation %. The more area devoted to perforation the more airflow you get.

I also believe it is a matter of perforation area compared to material thickness. Triangles would be awful since their tight corners would create turbulence. Even given the same perforation % triangles would perform worse. Having larger but yet fewer perforation would likely win out.

Circles are pretty bad due to how much material is left between cutouts. It also costs more machine time for less perforations %.

Honeycomb, hexagons, are perfect because their corners are more than 90 degrees and you can get a high perforation % for less machine time.

But really, it's more about design and how it speaks to you. I love the sky slots because it is a very balanced shape. I haven't measured it but it likely has a golden ratio because it feels very balanced.

Using a spiral design would throw off a lot of alignment symmetry, something I would never do.
 

vanbeveren

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Mar 21, 2019
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The industrial look is awesome and airflow is great too! No regrets here.

SO true. The build quality and durability and industrial look are second to none.

Off-topic a bit has anybody put a Radeon VII in here?
Looks pretty stock size and run surprisingly cooler than previous AMD stuff.

I’m trying to figure out my next move here in terms of keeping this as one single dual boot (mac/win) build or not
 
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