NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Launching April 2019

rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
30
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So, could they make a low profile video card that it could run at a 75W limit but have an additional power plug that if used could boost the performance? I don't mind upgrading a power supply and even downgrading the cpu to use less power if it means using that extra power to get a noticeable bump in video performance.
 
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Copernicus

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 21, 2019
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So, could they make a low profile video card that it could run at a 75W limit but have an additional power plug that if used could boost the performance? I don't mind upgrading a power supply and even downgrading the cpu to use less power if it means using that extra power to get a noticeable bump in video performance.
I think that would be cool to see. :) However, SFF boxes and large PSUs just don't go together these days. It makes more sense for someone interested in running a high-powered graphics card to build a system around that card, and these days, that means a full-sized tower box.

I personally like SFF boxes both for their size, and for the fact that they are constrained in the amount of electricity they use. Getting the most out of 75 watts tickles me more than just dumping gallons of electricity into a card and seeing how much it can use. :)
 

theGryphon

Airflow Optimizer
Jun 15, 2015
240
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So, could they make a low profile video card that it could run at a 75W limit but have an additional power plug that if used could boost the performance? I don't mind upgrading a power supply and even downgrading the cpu to use less power if it means using that extra power to get a noticeable bump in video performance.
That would be a niche card for sure with a really uncertain demand. Still, an AIB manufacturer can anytime test the waters with a GTX 1660 (Ti) as LP size cannot reasonably support any heat above 120W, nevermind the circuitry. The fact that none of them ever does indicates they don't see a profitable investment there, which is a little myopic of a business thinking if you ask me. With exponentially increasing interest in SFF, whoever does it first might in fact carve out a market for themselves and be surprised financially. I remember when the first ITX-sized GPUs showed up... it was a skeptical reception initially to say the least.

*nudge nudge*
 
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rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
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I'd sure as heck buy 1. Maybe even 2 or 3. I was thinking something along the lines of 75W Motherboard power and another 75W direct from powersupply(PS) giving the video card a net 150W to work with. Not Earth shattering power but enough to make a difference and I know most Dell SFF can upgrade to 315W PS so that leaves 165W of power for everything other than the video card which should be plenty running standard tech. It seems feasible anyway.
 

Copernicus

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 21, 2019
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Well, after days of no movement at all, suddenly a hint has arrived: BLT has ordered quite a few more cards from Zotac. They've ordered 30 more in total, most of which should be arriving in the beginning of September, and a few more towards the middle of October. What is perhaps more surprising is that up until now they were "drop-shipping" these cards, rather than keeping any in stock. They only have 23 orders in at the moment, so now they're going to have plenty left over on their shelves. Which means that anyone who adds their name to the list now has a pretty good chance of picking up one of the September orders (assuming Zotac ever does fulfill any of the orders that have been placed with them).

Otherwise, it's still empty shelves for every US retailer I can find, and "out of stock" on Zotac's own website. So, the question is: would it be faster to place an order at BLT and wait until September, or cross your fingers that some other retailer receives a shipment before then? (Or grab one of those awful overpriced Canadian imports being sold on Newegg? :) )
 

rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
30
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Mind boggling. One would think the USA would be one of the biggest markets for computer tech including video cards. I'm sure there has got to be some stats to back that up someplace. It boggles my mind as to why a company would ship stock to that country last. There must be some sort of whacky logic I don't understand. Political reasons maybe?
 
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Copernicus

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 21, 2019
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Political reasons maybe?
Oh yeah. We elected a man who thinks tearing up trade treaties and being a total creep to anyone who wants to trade with us will do wonders for our economy. I would imagine we're going to be the worlds biggest pariah for quite some time. :(

Ok, getting off my political soapbox now. (But yeah, I voted for her, not him.)
 

rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
30
20
as LP size cannot reasonably support any heat above 120W, nevermind the circuitry
I find that hard to believe because we have laptops that run 1080's and they adequately manage both power and heat. I currently have a thin laptop with a 1070mq or m something on it and it does fine. Admittely, it gets pretty hot when running intense graphics but it works well even for multiple consecutive hours. You do need a cooler tray unless you enjoy burning your body parts though.
---
I tried finding Canadian sites that carried the 1060 LP card thinking it might be a good buy with the exchange rate but I was having a hard time of it. I ran into a bunch of false postitives.
 

Valantar

King of Cable Management
Jan 20, 2018
634
458
I find that hard to believe because we have laptops that run 1080's and they adequately manage both power and heat. I currently have a thin laptop with a 1070mq or m something on it and it does fine. Admittely, it gets pretty hot when running intense graphics but it works well even for multiple consecutive hours. You do need a cooler tray unless you enjoy burning your body parts though.
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I tried finding Canadian sites that carried the 1060 LP card thinking it might be a good buy with the exchange rate but I was having a hard time of it. I ran into a bunch of false postitives.
Laptops are custom built and don't need to care whatsoever about standardized form factors in relation to cooling, power delivery, or other issues. A dual slot LP card is far more restricted than a laptop in that it has very limited board space in a very specific shape (including display outputs), needs a bulky PCIe power plug if it's above 75W, needs to not exceed the standard measurements for its size category to avoid interference with cases or components, can't assume direct access to cool air from outside the case, and certainly can't expect to exhaust hot air directly from the cooler. All of which laptop designers can do whatever they want with. And look at any laptop with a powerful GPU and you'll see that the GPU and it's cooling solution takes up a lot of space. Not to mention that laptops are generally expected to throttle, while even SFF desktop components are scrutinized far more stringently in terms of "delivering what is promised".
 

RichterSnipes

Efficiency Noob
Aug 17, 2019
5
9
So, could they make a low profile video card that it could run at a 75W limit but have an additional power plug that if used could boost the performance? I don't mind upgrading a power supply and even downgrading the cpu to use less power if it means using that extra power to get a noticeable bump in video performance.
I'd be down for one! My HTPC uses a Corsair SF450, and it runs plenty under its rated limit at all times. Never even see its fan turn outside of a couple of seconds on a cold boot. The only problem would be clearance for the 6-pin connector. I'm sure that could get worked out just fine, though.
I think that would be cool to see. :) However, SFF boxes and large PSUs just don't go together these days. It makes more sense for someone interested in running a high-powered graphics card to build a system around that card, and these days, that means a full-sized tower box.

I personally like SFF boxes both for their size, and for the fact that they are constrained in the amount of electricity they use. Getting the most out of 75 watts tickles me more than just dumping gallons of electricity into a card and seeing how much it can use. :)
You'd be surprised at how small of boxes you can stuff even a full-size GPU into. Just hop into some other threads on this site and you'll see some stunningly small chassis for full-powered systems. And I wouldn't necessarily call SFX power supplies "large PSUs". I'd rather have the PSU inside the case, anyways, since using an external power supply reminds me too much of laptops and makes me feel like I'm cheating on the PC's overall size.
Mind boggling. One would think the USA would be one of the biggest markets for computer tech including video cards. I'm sure there has got to be some stats to back that up someplace. It boggles my mind as to why a company would ship stock to that country last. There must be some sort of whacky logic I don't understand. Political reasons maybe?
I don't think it's for that. The U.S. is the biggest, most homogenized consumer market in the world. Companies won't bother to release products here unless they can feel confident that they can carve a strong enough base for them. They don't mind selling small amounts in countries with smaller economies, but it's a bigger risk (and potential waste of company resources) to do so for the U.S. It becomes a harder ask when the product in question only garners a niche audience. Economies of scale don't come into effect if the bigger market doesn't have enough people clamoring to purchase the item in the first place.

Just look at the GTX 950 LP. It got released in Japan and Europe, but guess what got left out? The United States. And that was in early-mid 2016, before... well, you know.
 
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Copernicus

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 21, 2019
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Companies won't bother to release products here unless they can feel confident that they can carve a strong enough base for them. They don't mind selling small amounts in countries with smaller economies, but it's a bigger risk (and potential waste of company resources) to do so for the U.S.
I have trouble believing this. For one thing, Zotac has been selling dozens of different products in the US for a very, very long time; they have the expertise and the contacts within the US to understand how to market products here. For another thing, this is not quite that much of a niche product; from what I've seen, it seems to be selling fairly well elsewhere across the world; moreover, those US retailers who provide info on how many cards they have ordered are showing that they have placed decent-sized orders; BLT now has 44 cards on order (24 of which are already claimed by customers), NextWarehouse has at least 5 on order, and several others state that they have orders on the way. Amazon and Newegg are silent, but I can't believe that they haven't ordered any cards at all.

I can't believe that Zotac can see no reward for the risk of selling this particular card in the US; at least in terms of existing demand.

EDIT: I guess there is demand for this product pretty much everywhere. I've been keeping tabs on the PC-Canada site; they started with about 6 cards two weeks ago, got a second shipment to increase their total to 20, and at this moment are sold out. So far, it looks like retailers can sell every one of these cards they can get their hands on...
 
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Choidebu

King of Cable Management
Aug 16, 2017
873
839
Maybe US is believed to be the market for biggest and latest, while smallest and most power efficient not so much?

Laptop gpus aren't even the same sku as your desktop ones. Different core counts, different boost strategy, power control, formfactor and such. Can't compare apples to oranges.
 

rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
30
20
+1 GTX 1060 LP BLT order. Might as well support the guys trying to get us the goods. Thanks @Copernicus

I dunno. On the size, heat & power of video cards issue I guess we can agree to disagree. My point though is that if they can do it in a laptop format they can also do it in an itx/sff size too. Whether they choose to or not or if there's enough profit in it is another story. Being able to take up 2 slots of space gives them quite a bit of realestate to work with in my opinion. I will concede there are some cases(intended double meaning there) where it makes it more challenging then others. That said, by the sheer amount of ideas, people & products on this site pushing the tech as far as it will go is quite amazing and exciting. If we can get technology safely to Mars we sure should be able to get a better video card working in an sff cases. Ok, maybe that's a bit over dramatic but you get what I'm trying to say. Like for example, why not have an adapter for the laptop sized video card that connects to a pci slot. I understand it's more than that but if the card is like half the size then that leaves more options for say cooling. I would also argue that a sff case may need to behave more like a laptop in performance in certain instances. Also, if you are already taking up 2 slots why not plug into 2 slots giving you potentially more bandwidth and power options. Maybe it's time for a new hybrid design.
 
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Choidebu

King of Cable Management
Aug 16, 2017
873
839
You're talking over your head here. Learn the facts and what's the current possibilities first.

MXM gpus, 1060, 1070 up to 1080 are a available, MXM to pcie card is also available. The problem is just price.

1080 mxm is $1000 on amazon
MXM to pcie riser is $440 on ebay

Meanwhile that same 1080 desktop card cost you $500.

All that for 15% less performance and 17% less power consumption?

It's just economics - it's why apple can get away with their pricing and customers still queues to buy and lick their behind while at it.
 
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rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
30
20
Awesome sauce! Thanks for the links. I don't know why the adapter cards are so bloody expensive. The the thing to know is what specific tech to look for (ie MXM). You knew the specifics. I didn't.

So the simple answer is we do have the tech available to put laptop video cards into sff. It just costs a heck of a lot to do it.
---
From BLT preorder email:
Currently, this item is scheduled to ship to us from the factory for arrival on 9/2/19
 
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Valantar

King of Cable Management
Jan 20, 2018
634
458
Awesome sauce! Thanks for the links. I don't know why the adapter cards are so bloody expensive. The the thing to know is what specific tech to look for (ie MXM). You knew the specifics. I didn't.

So the simple answer is we do have the tech available to put laptop video cards into sff. It just costs a heck of a lot to do it.
---
From BLT preorder email:
Currently, this item is scheduled to ship to us from the factory for arrival on 9/2/19
Not really. MXM cards are significantly larger than HHHL PCIe cards, better suited for GPUs due to their square-ish shape, and lack power connectors and video outputs - i.e. an AIC with a similar layout and the same parts would be even bigger. The advantage of MXM is volume, as laptop designers are able to move cooling to whereever is prudent in that laptop. Fitting the GPU die, VRAM and VRM components from a modern mid-range GPU onto a HHHL card would likely require some sort of exotic PCB solution like a sandwich layout, which would make this extremely expensive while also making cooling very very difficult.

Beyond that, laptops are generally terribly noisy (for good reason!) and expensive (also generally for good reason). Making laptop-density graphics possible in a desktop form factor would likely require a GPU to be tailor-made for a specific case (which is how they do it in laptops), which isn't exactly ideal.
 
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Analogue Blacksheep

Cable-Tie Ninja
Bronze Supporter
Dec 2, 2018
199
91
Just thinking about things:

Does Navi have potential for a LP GPU?
Are three slot GPU's the answer?

There was a post by @Necere in a previous thread that looked at the latter option.

 

Copernicus

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 21, 2019
92
60
Anandtech has put up a small article covering the Asus low-profile GTX 1650 cards. No new information, so far as I can see, but a nice summary. Also, someone else has posted what appears to be the first real unboxing video for the Zotac LP 1650:


EDIT: And now, a new US retailer (Consutronix) has popped up, and this is the first one to state that they have the Zotac card in stock. At least, that's what their website says; I haven't confirmed it yet. And I've never heard of these guys before myself, so I have no idea how trustworthy they are. Still, I'm hoping that this means other retailers will be receiving stock soon; Zotac does seem to prefer releasing their products on Saturdays... Link:

 
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Copernicus

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 21, 2019
92
60
Hello everyone,
Any news about availability of this model in other retailers? especially in the USA
Right now, the Zotac model is available pretty much everywhere in the world except the USA. If politics is the reason for this, I can only assume that our President's recent actions can only cause further delays (and price increases)...

I've been keeping an eye on things; the retailer BLT has indicated they expect a shipment by the end of next week, but Zotac had also told them they would be receiving cards a few weeks ago, and those never arrived. So, no idea.

BTW, Newegg has managed to acquire some Asus LP 1050 ti cards, if you're in a hurry and don't mind three year old tech.