NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Launching April 2019

Copernicus

Average Stuffer
Apr 21, 2019
71
54
The spec sheet for my Optiplex 990 says the PCIe slot is limited to 35W, but given that my graphics card has external power I haven't had an opportunity to check if this is a real limitation or purely an on-paper spec.
->I seem to recall multiple folks saying that those limits on the slots are purposefully listed low.
Well, one thing all these SFF machines built for offices share is a relatively small amount of room to house their power supply. Thus, you get smaller PSUs, generally rated in the low 200 watt range.

Now, my understanding is that the way power supplies are rated, they reach maximum efficiency at around half of their rating, and go downhill from there. So, let's say, for a 240 watt PSU, you want to be running at most near 120 watts (if you're constantly less than that, you could have used a cheaper PSU), and you really really don't want to be getting all the way up to 240 watts (where you are wasting electricity even if you aren't damaging your machine). So, when you design the SFF box, you budget everything for a maximum of 120 watts. The CPU gets so much, the drives get so much, the GPU gets so much, etc.

So, if the spec sheet says the GPU shouldn't go over 35 watts, my interpretation is that going over that may end up pushing you well above 120 watts overall, and therefore beyond the sweet spot for your PSU. (This is assuming that you haven't reduced wattage somewhere else, of course.)

In short, it's nice to have a PSU rated for roughly double your average usage.
 

Copernicus

Average Stuffer
Apr 21, 2019
71
54
I don't think this was mentioned so forgive me if it was but according to this article it appears that MSI is offering both an OC & non OC version of the GTX 1650 LP:
Actually, it was mentioned, but it's been months now since that news came out, and MSI has only released the non-OC card (and even then that one has only reached a few stores in Japan and Hong Kong, and maybe one in Russia, so far as I know).

So yeah, I don't blame folks for forgetting what MSI is planning. Or that MSI even exists... :(
 

rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
21
10
budget everything for a maximum of 120 watts.
->How on earth am I going to conquer the planet on 120 watts? :) But good advice thanks. Even with a 315 watt PS I'm kinda hosed for a 1080 ti build unless the average watt usage of the vid card is signficantly less than 250 watts. This will need to be further investgated....
 
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rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
21
10
Please 'bear' with me..hehe..I'm just excited. I was able to successfully sanity test the Dell Optiplex sff 7060 last night and get Win 10 Pro setup and updated. I should have KVM switch coming today to make it easier to flip between my pc & my wifes. That way I can make sure she always has a machine she can use when she wants even when I'm working on a pc and don't finish.

It's suppose to rain today so I should have time to try out the MSI 1050 ti video card. Any recommendations for free software for benchmarking a video card?

Upon pondering the 1080ti SFF build further I'm thinking I just don't really have enough power for it for it to be viable with my current Dell sff cases unless I can find an internal power supply that's much more powerful that fits inside the case. However, I did find online a different SFF case (Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC case ) that can support the build:

Build: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/HYHhP6

Case: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/GsZ2FT/fractal-design-case-fdcanode202bk

My wife would blow a gastket right now if I started building this so even if I do head down that road it probably won't be for a while..at minimum months and probably next year....maybe.
 

rfarmer

SFF Guru
Silver Supporter
Jul 7, 2017
1,294
1,200
Please 'bear' with me..hehe..I'm just excited. I was able to successfully sanity test the Dell Optiplex sff 7060 last night and get Win 10 Pro setup and updated. I should have KVM switch coming today to make it easier to flip between my pc & my wifes. That way I can make sure she always has a machine she can use when she wants even when I'm working on a pc and don't finish.

It's suppose to rain today so I should have time to try out the MSI 1050 ti video card. Any recommendations for free software for benchmarking a video card?

Upon pondering the 1080ti SFF build further I'm thinking I just don't really have enough power for it for it to be viable with my current Dell sff cases unless I can find an internal power supply that's much more powerful that fits inside the case. However, I did find online a different SFF case (Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC case ) that can support the build:

Build: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/HYHhP6

Case: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/GsZ2FT/fractal-design-case-fdcanode202bk

My wife would blow a gastket right now if I started building this so even if I do head down that road it probably won't be for a while..at minimum months and probably next year....maybe.
Check out Unigine, Heaven and Valley are good free bench marking tools.
 
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Valantar

Master of Cramming
Jan 20, 2018
586
394
Also, an epic sff build story really deserves its own thread, as others on this site have done. :)
As the author of one of those other threads, I wholeheartedly second the request for a "@rogar308's Dell SFF Chop Shop" thread.

Please 'bear' with me..hehe..I'm just excited. I was able to successfully sanity test the Dell Optiplex sff 7060 last night and get Win 10 Pro setup and updated. I should have KVM switch coming today to make it easier to flip between my pc & my wifes. That way I can make sure she always has a machine she can use when she wants even when I'm working on a pc and don't finish.

It's suppose to rain today so I should have time to try out the MSI 1050 ti video card. Any recommendations for free software for benchmarking a video card?

Upon pondering the 1080ti SFF build further I'm thinking I just don't really have enough power for it for it to be viable with my current Dell sff cases unless I can find an internal power supply that's much more powerful that fits inside the case. However, I did find online a different SFF case (Fractal Design Node 202 HTPC case ) that can support the build:

Build: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/HYHhP6

Case: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/GsZ2FT/fractal-design-case-fdcanode202bk

My wife would blow a gastket right now if I started building this so even if I do head down that road it probably won't be for a while..at minimum months and probably next year....maybe.
If the PSUs in your intended victims are similar in form factor to the one in my 990, the most powerful option I've found not requiring a motherboard swap to fit is the MeanWell UHP-350-12, which is an AC-12VDC PSU requiring a secondary DC-ATX board to be useful. Which would of course also require an adapter cable if your boards are new enough to ditch the 24-pin. Other than that according to my measurements these cases could fit TFX or FlexATX PSUs if equipped with an ITX motherboard and modified a bit, but that's... impractical.
 
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rogar308

Caliper Novice
Jul 18, 2019
21
10
Ok. Thanks for the info. I'm not a huge blogger and I poked around and I don't see anywhere where I can actually create a forum. Either I'm missing something (most likely) or I don't have permissions to do it. I do like the name Dell SFF Chop Shop & Case Carnage
 

Valantar

Master of Cramming
Jan 20, 2018
586
394
Ok. Thanks for the info. I'm not a huge blogger and I poked around and I don't see anywhere where I can actually create a forum. Either I'm missing something (most likely) or I don't have permissions to do it. I do like the name Dell SFF Chop Shop & Case Carnage
Regular users can't make subforums, only threads (just go into a suitable subforums and click "post thread"). The "Builds" or "mods" subforums sound like they'd fit reasonably well. And I don't see any reason why a thread documenting your exploits wouldn't make a delightful read :)
 

Copernicus

Average Stuffer
Apr 21, 2019
71
54
Kinda depressing; somehow, NextWarehouse has managed to convince Google to list them as one of the few US retailers selling the Zotac card (even though they have no stock), and so they keep coming up at the top whenever you search for it. Seems they are trying to take advantage of this fact: they raised their price for the card to $200 last week, and just increased it to $225 this evening. Hope nobody is falling for their tactics.

BLT says they are scheduled to receive their first shipment of cards tomorrow, we'll see if Zotac has finally decided to allow US retailers to sell the card...

EDIT (Friday): BLT did not receive their shipment as scheduled yesterday. It is now marked as "past due" on their web page. :(

EDIT 2 (Saturday): All of BLT's shipments from Zotac are now marked "past due". No other US stores, so far as I can see, have received any stock. Zotac's own on-line store currently indicates that it is out of stock.

All I can assume at this point is that Zotac has underestimated the demand for this product. Other Zotac products are in stock all over the place (including in the US), just not their LP 1650 card. BLT provides information not only on the orders they have placed with Zotac (14 cards, all of which were placed more than two weeks ago), but also the quantity requested (but not yet received) by their customers -- and that count has now ticked up to 28. So BLT has not succeeded in placing any new orders to Zotac for at least two weeks now.

Utterly frustrating. :(
 
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RichterSnipes

Minimal Tinkerer
Aug 17, 2019
3
8
Thought I'd make an account on here to post about my experience with this card.

I live in the U.S., and I've been looking for a new low profile GPU for awhile. My Gigabyte GTX 1050 Ti LP card was causing periodic signal loss since I got it two years ago. Two RMAs, multiple HDMI cables, and even a change of TV didn't fix it. As far as I can tell, it's a problem with the 1050 Ti as a whole.

That's where this card comes into play. Ever since I knew there'd be a low profile variant of the 1650, I've been looking for the most reasonable way to get this thing in my hands. I figured the SFF Forums were the perfect place to figure that out. It's a niche product, after all. And it looks like I was right, thanks to Copernicus making a living diary off of the card's availability. I'm actually grateful for that. If it weren't for this thread, I'd have never known that Zotac sold its products on its own website!

I ordered the card from there last Monday. Shipping is pretty hefty, but the final price wasn't that much higher than it'd be if I bought it from a U.S. retailer and paid sales tax afterwards. It got here exactly a week later, and it was well packaged. The card's box was completely surrounded by foam slabs. Overall a pleasant surprise. The card itself is fairly standard outside of it being low profile. Two fans, no back shield, no-frills design. But it's really the only card for me at this point nonetheless. The planned Asus card is too long to fit into my Silverstone ML09 case, and the MSI card has absolutely pathetic I/O choices with only one HDMI port and DVI. Not even DisplayPort!

The 1650 was a snug fit, but that's to be expected with SFF builds. As for the actual results: The signal loss issue is gone! That, and this being a more powerful card than the 1050 Ti already makes this card a big winner in my book. Things definitely seem snappier in terms of rendering graphics in games, but I haven't done that much rigorous testing on it. I figure there's not much of a point to stress it. It's a hybrid HTPC and gaming machine, not a master-race-level gaming powerhouse.

I've got to parrot what others are saying: The fans are pretty loud. If I didn't know any better, I'd say they might even be louder than the Gigabyte GTX 1050 Ti LP I was using. And that only has one fan doing all the cooling! To me the sound is fairly ambient, but I know others won't agree on that. It really depends on how much you're focusing on the fans instead of what you're doing on the computer. Now, if it's at load in a game and there's a slow/silent moment going on in it, then it's definitely off-putting.

If you're in the U.S. and still waiting for this card, I'd heavily suggest ordering it from Zotac's website when it's in stock. The process couldn't be more self-explanatory, and delivery time was faster than expected, too. I'm pretty stoked overall. I've wanted to be able to upgrade the GPU for awhile, even forgetting the blackout issue I've had with it. Now I've killed two birds with one stone.
 

raksan

Trash Compacter
May 3, 2017
37
47
Thank you for sharing your thoughts @RichterSnipes, I have two low profile 1050ti cards (new gigabyte and second hand msi). Both run fine with no issue. The cards live in very compact and tight PC. The msi is less fortunated as it fit inside the Dell 755 sff which only give the PCIE power like 25w, but it still run great. When the news about 1650lp come out I'm so excited, but I'm not going to upgrade it soon. I still keep an eye for one when the price is more acceptable.
 

RichterSnipes

Minimal Tinkerer
Aug 17, 2019
3
8
Happy to share my account of this with you all! Hopefully that helps assure people that the Zotac site should be fine for purchasing a card from. Obviously I hope the card(s) do become available on traditional online retailers in the U.S., but this is definitely a fine route to go.

@raksan It's good to hear you don't have any issues with the 1050 Ti. I'm not surprised that many people don't have issues with it. If it was more widespread I'd think there'd have been a recall by now. I feel like the issue might be related to running the card at 4K via HDMI. When I had the card and PC hooked up to a 1080p TV, I didn't experience the issue. Only with my 4K screen did the signal dropouts occur.

Speaking of news, does it seem like there's any concrete proof that the 1650 Ti will exist in the consumer discrete graphics card market? The only articles I saw about it were from months ago about Asus potentially developing several variants of it.
 
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Copernicus

Average Stuffer
Apr 21, 2019
71
54
Speaking of news, does it seem like there's any concrete proof that the 1650 Ti will exist in the consumer discrete graphics card market? The only articles I saw about it were from months ago about Asus potentially developing several variants of it.
I have heard nothing myself, but there is certainly room leftover in the 1650 silicon for a ti design if they wish...
 

Valantar

Master of Cramming
Jan 20, 2018
586
394
I have heard nothing myself, but there is certainly room leftover in the 1650 silicon for a ti design if they wish...
One has to wonder how much of a difference two more SMs/64 CUDA cores would make, though. Especially if they want to keep it below 75W (which we need for an LP card) there's no room to increase clocks or include faster memory.
 
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Copernicus

Average Stuffer
Apr 21, 2019
71
54
One has to wonder how much of a difference two more SMs/64 CUDA cores would make, though. Especially if they want to keep it below 75W (which we need for an LP card) there's no room to increase clocks or include faster memory.
I believe that the 1050 ti is actually clocked slower than the 1050 for precisely that reason. But it still performs better.
 

Valantar

Master of Cramming
Jan 20, 2018
586
394
I believe that the 1050 ti is actually clocked slower than the 1050 for precisely that reason. But it still performs better.
That's true, but it also has 128 more CUDA cores, and the base number it's trying to beat is lower. After all the 128-core increase of the 1050ti is a 20% increase over the 1050's 640, while the 1650 already has 896 cores and there are only 64 more on the die - a maximum increase of 7%. That really doesn't leave much wiggle room in terms of real-world performance increases in the same power budget.
 
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