Production Lazer3D CG7 Cravo - Low profile silent case (slim mATX | mini itx)
- Thread starter owliwar
- Start date
Hi guys, I Might need some rested eyes on this.
I've spent the last weekend learning about fluid simulation (I'm really like these things) so I decided to test my vent pattern against an "ideal" circular cut.
my metodology was to measure the average air velocity inside the case with 2x92mm fans on one side panel (dont know the specs because it was some randon 92mm fans on solidoworks), case closed but with nothing inside, and just changing the vent pattern.
The ideal cut was this:
and then some similar patterns
1
2
3
I was considering the av velocity of the ideal cut as 100% and then going on this.
pattern 1 - 69%
pattern 2 - 67%
pattern 3 - 64%
pattern 1 had the best result . but I did'nt like how open it was. I'm tryng to balance aesthetics and performance.
I suddenly realised that i was covering part of the fan on top on bottom, so I tested to see if the openings had impact in performance.
It did impact more with open layouts
with this pattern that was very similar to 2 it got around 78%, so the thin cuts were doing something.
In the end this was the best ratio of good looking / performance that I found, but I still wasn't satisfied.
But I'm not sure? I mean, How much I'm overthinking this? is 20% simulated average air speed even going to change something? like, a degree or 2?
For learning and academic purposes, this was awesome and wanted to share.
I even started doing some tests in a another way of fixing the fans, with an additional fan bracket that gets locked by the side panel. It adds 3mm to the fan position but its a bit more efficient. this pattern goes about ~ 73% in the same scale.
new fan bracket:
I've spent the last weekend learning about fluid simulation (I'm really like these things) so I decided to test my vent pattern against an "ideal" circular cut.
my metodology was to measure the average air velocity inside the case with 2x92mm fans on one side panel (dont know the specs because it was some randon 92mm fans on solidoworks), case closed but with nothing inside, and just changing the vent pattern.
at first it was something like this, but I realized (not very quickly) that I had to make my boundaries small.
the rest of the test were with the case boundaries.
the rest of the test were with the case boundaries.
The ideal cut was this:
and then some similar patterns
1
2
3
I was considering the av velocity of the ideal cut as 100% and then going on this.
pattern 1 - 69%
pattern 2 - 67%
pattern 3 - 64%
pattern 1 had the best result . but I did'nt like how open it was. I'm tryng to balance aesthetics and performance.
I suddenly realised that i was covering part of the fan on top on bottom, so I tested to see if the openings had impact in performance.
It did impact more with open layouts
with this pattern that was very similar to 2 it got around 78%, so the thin cuts were doing something.
In the end this was the best ratio of good looking / performance that I found, but I still wasn't satisfied.
But I'm not sure? I mean, How much I'm overthinking this? is 20% simulated average air speed even going to change something? like, a degree or 2?
For learning and academic purposes, this was awesome and wanted to share.
I even started doing some tests in a another way of fixing the fans, with an additional fan bracket that gets locked by the side panel. It adds 3mm to the fan position but its a bit more efficient. this pattern goes about ~ 73% in the same scale.
new fan bracket:
I remembered about this video and decided to watch it again and I didn't remember it being so over...
I Guess I'll go back a few versions of this top panel
I Guess I'll go back a few versions of this top panel
small update!
this week we fiddled a lot on the fan brackets. the side fans were leaving to much screws on the exterior, and we wanted a cleaner look. its in a rail like system so you could position the fans better around the case now, and the fan bracket also will just pop in there, making installation a lot easier.
Now if fits even better 2 92x15mm fans with 2 slot cards, and 92x25mm fans with single slot cards. It will look like this, but maching the color of the case in matte OR clear:
I misjudged some clearances, and the cpu fan bracket had to be lowered by 2mm, this will leave the max cpu cooler at around 69mm, but 70mm cooler might just fit, because the bracket has some wiggle room. Anyway, we designed a secondary drive bracket so that you could remove this cpu fan bracket altogether and have 74mm cooler clearance, allowing coolers like the cryorig C1 and more.
Total drive capacity has been reduced by 3x2.5" drives, because of clearance from side fans. (but you could even fit one 7mm 2.5" drive over the TFX PSU if you don't mind taping it
)
edit: I gotta give better names for these brackets..
this week we fiddled a lot on the fan brackets. the side fans were leaving to much screws on the exterior, and we wanted a cleaner look. its in a rail like system so you could position the fans better around the case now, and the fan bracket also will just pop in there, making installation a lot easier.
Now if fits even better 2 92x15mm fans with 2 slot cards, and 92x25mm fans with single slot cards. It will look like this, but maching the color of the case in matte OR clear:
I misjudged some clearances, and the cpu fan bracket had to be lowered by 2mm, this will leave the max cpu cooler at around 69mm, but 70mm cooler might just fit, because the bracket has some wiggle room. Anyway, we designed a secondary drive bracket so that you could remove this cpu fan bracket altogether and have 74mm cooler clearance, allowing coolers like the cryorig C1 and more.
Total drive capacity has been reduced by 3x2.5" drives, because of clearance from side fans. (but you could even fit one 7mm 2.5" drive over the TFX PSU if you don't mind taping it
)edit: I gotta give better names for these brackets..
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really love this case, love the horizontal layout. also liked that slanted wood front or the scroll pattern, but i guess that is not staying though. and this is an ITX chassis right.
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Hi JKiejr, thanks!really love this case, love the horizontal layout. also liked that slanted wood front or the scroll pattern, but i guess that is not staying though. and this is an ITX chassis right.
the img is broken for some reason but I'm makint this 'atari look' first. I cant promise more versions at right now
the one I'm finishing right now is. the matx /atx model with support for a single full size gpu is on the making, but I'm making sure the case work as is first.
This 7L model is both the itx + tfx psu and the DC-ATX layout. there are a few extra pieces that could be swaped so you could build your desired system. It fits mAtx boards up to 20.6mm/ 8.1" wide on the dc-atx layout.
I might have to come up with a name for each model
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Are the edges of the air vents sharp or rounded? Sharp corners interfere with airflow, and you can get greatly improved performance if you can make the edges of your air vents rounded (see here for further explanation: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/). Granted, if you're laser cutting the panels from acrylic that might be hard to do though since the laser cuts in a straight line.Hi guys, I Might need some rested eyes on this.
I've spent the last weekend learning about fluid simulation (I'm really like these things) so I decided to test my vent pattern against an "ideal" circular cut.
my metodology was to measure the average air velocity inside the case with 2x92mm fans on one side panel (dont know the specs because it was some randon 92mm fans on solidoworks), case closed but with nothing inside, and just changing the vent pattern.
at first it was something like this, but I realized (not very quickly) that I had to make my boundaries small.
the rest of the test were with the case boundaries.
The ideal cut was this:
and then some similar patterns
1
2
3
I was considering the av velocity of the ideal cut as 100% and then going on this.
pattern 1 - 69%
pattern 2 - 67%
pattern 3 - 64%
pattern 1 had the best result . but I did'nt like how open it was. I'm tryng to balance aesthetics and performance.
I suddenly realised that i was covering part of the fan on top on bottom, so I tested to see if the openings had impact in performance.
It did impact more with open layouts
with this pattern that was very similar to 2 it got around 78%, so the thin cuts were doing something.
In the end this was the best ratio of good looking / performance that I found, but I still wasn't satisfied.
But I'm not sure? I mean, How much I'm overthinking this? is 20% simulated average air speed even going to change something? like, a degree or 2?
For learning and academic purposes, this was awesome and wanted to share.
I even started doing some tests in a another way of fixing the fans, with an additional fan bracket that gets locked by the side panel. It adds 3mm to the fan position but its a bit more efficient. this pattern goes about ~ 73% in the same scale.
new fan bracket:
they are sharp because of lazer. the panel is 5mm and there is another 5mm to the fans itself. I tested again after that and it did improve (teoricaly) quite a lot after that 5mm gap. As soon as this prototype is ready we will be able to test the noise levels of this pattern
also thanks for the link!
Wow, nice work you are doing here bro, congrats!
It's very cool finding another brazilian project here (I'm from Brazil too). I think I remember you from early last year anyway.
If you want to find a good/cheap case manufacturer in Brazil, I did some research last year, and this was the best I found:
www.reteckminas.com
I think it's worth giving them a call, as they charge less than 100$ for each metal prototype (not aluminum though, only sheet metal), and I've seen great feedback from their store.
Here is my recent project if u want to give a look: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/z-case-p50-premium-console-sized-pc-case-7-9l.6643/
Keep up the progress, and good luck to us. Cheers!
It's very cool finding another brazilian project here (I'm from Brazil too). I think I remember you from early last year anyway.
If you want to find a good/cheap case manufacturer in Brazil, I did some research last year, and this was the best I found:
www.reteckminas.com
I think it's worth giving them a call, as they charge less than 100$ for each metal prototype (not aluminum though, only sheet metal), and I've seen great feedback from their store.
Here is my recent project if u want to give a look: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/z-case-p50-premium-console-sized-pc-case-7-9l.6643/
Keep up the progress, and good luck to us. Cheers!
Hi @BernardoZ, thanks a lot!
didn't know you were from brazil, I'll DM later so I don't sidetrack too much here, got some curiosity on your project as well. looking really nice!
didn't know you were from brazil, I'll DM later so I don't sidetrack too much here, got some curiosity on your project as well. looking really nice!
Is this case going to be made of ABS place? How will thermals be like? And is there any advantage or disadvantage to using this over aluminum?
Hi Dumplinknet, This case will be made out of matte acrylic for the main panels, and solid wood for the front panel, depending on the version.
This specific acrylic sheet we use use is very scratch resistant and strong, acrylic wont bent easily, the color is part of the material, and acrylic makes it easy for us to make customization.
This case has really good airflow openings and support for both 80mm and 92mm fans. also the cooler support is very good at 74mm for a sff case. The TFX psu is also used as exhaust for the cpu area, if you were using that layout. Thermals should be very good, as well as noise levels.
I cant give you exact numbers yet as I've only made simulated tests, but in next couple weeks I'll have the updated version made.
I would post this later but here's a sneak peak of that customization I'm talking about
Quick update:
got a system build inside the first prototype. Had to redo some things, adjust some clearances, that kind of thing. since this is pretty much ready so far, I've updated the first post renders and descriptions.
Now the bottom fan bracket has mounting points for a hdplex ac-dc converter. so the ac-dc layout of this case should be very easy to implement.
with that clearance issues I talked about it wasnt possible anymore to mount the storage drives over the pci cards, so flex atx motherboard had to decrease to 18.8cm wide, with 2x 2.5"' sata drives in the small drive bracket.
I added support for 80mm fans in the top and bottom fan brackets, since I found that 80x10mm or 80x15mm fans are easier to buy in some countries. (In Brazil there is a single 92x15mm fan in the market, but plenty of 80x15mm).
fan bracket is like this now:
got a system build inside the first prototype. Had to redo some things, adjust some clearances, that kind of thing. since this is pretty much ready so far, I've updated the first post renders and descriptions.
Now the bottom fan bracket has mounting points for a hdplex ac-dc converter. so the ac-dc layout of this case should be very easy to implement.
with that clearance issues I talked about it wasnt possible anymore to mount the storage drives over the pci cards, so flex atx motherboard had to decrease to 18.8cm wide, with 2x 2.5"' sata drives in the small drive bracket.
I added support for 80mm fans in the top and bottom fan brackets, since I found that 80x10mm or 80x15mm fans are easier to buy in some countries. (In Brazil there is a single 92x15mm fan in the market, but plenty of 80x15mm).
fan bracket is like this now:
@GuilleAcoustic sorry to tag you here but the comments you've made on the project hybrid on cooller orientation made me a bit worried, do you mind checking it here a bit?
in horizontal mode I was planning to keep the motherboard inverted, as to serve as monitor stand. I didn't wanted any unnecessary holes in this position, as to give some sense of protection. my venting holes arent that smal and in this layout could have things spilled inside or something. its a real concern
what i'm mostly asking is, basically any cooler that uses vapor chambers wont work in -90º orientation?
..... what about gpu coolers? I imagine it works because the z height its too low but...
the case can be rotated to the other orientation but If it is really the best way (or the only safe way) I'd change the front panel then.
but then a monitor would defintly block most ventts on this panel..
vent diameter is around 8mm so.... I'm not sure
any tips?
in horizontal mode I was planning to keep the motherboard inverted, as to serve as monitor stand. I didn't wanted any unnecessary holes in this position, as to give some sense of protection. my venting holes arent that smal and in this layout could have things spilled inside or something. its a real concern
what i'm mostly asking is, basically any cooler that uses vapor chambers wont work in -90º orientation?
..... what about gpu coolers? I imagine it works because the z height its too low but...
the case can be rotated to the other orientation but If it is really the best way (or the only safe way) I'd change the front panel then.
but then a monitor would defintly block most ventts on this panel..
vent diameter is around 8mm so.... I'm not sure
any tips?
Classic (grooved) heatpipes don't allow flipped operation (against gravity). The only kind of heatpipe that allows downward operation are Sintered Powder heatpipes.
You can read more about heatpipes here: http://celsiainc.com/heat-pipes-technology-performance-shapes-custom-design/
You can read more about heatpipes here: http://celsiainc.com/heat-pipes-technology-performance-shapes-custom-design/
Hmmmm
assuming the cost I don't thing there are many sinthered heat pipes in sff coolers then?
thanks!
I'll see if I can find a list of cpu coolers that uses this kind of heatpipe..
aparently cryorig c1 uses it, and its the biggest cooler that fits here so Its a good start at least..
edit: aparently there isnt many low profile ones that uses this.. so I'll flip the front of the case anyway. won't be much trouble
assuming the cost I don't thing there are many sinthered heat pipes in sff coolers then?
thanks!
I'll see if I can find a list of cpu coolers that uses this kind of heatpipe..
aparently cryorig c1 uses it, and its the biggest cooler that fits here so Its a good start at least..
edit: aparently there isnt many low profile ones that uses this.. so I'll flip the front of the case anyway. won't be much trouble
Hi duke, thanks for commenting!
I'm not so sure yet, but I'm aiming at mid march / early April.
The model is basically ready, just need to test this updated version so we can move on to instruction manuals and that kind of stuff
If we do an small batch early I'll let you know
Hey all
I know I've been teasing a lot lately, but bear with me
we are making the second prototype very soon, and as most structural work has been done I had time to do a bunch of renders to test all different styles that could work with this case.
If you have a favorite please tell me! to keep things simple and affordable we will not be able to do crazy custom collors, but rather some pre-config models to choose from, so pick you favorites! I'm planning to have 4 to 5 styles to choose from, so it will be nice to know what you liked the most!
edit: redid the gallery, there is 14 numbered options now
I know I've been teasing a lot lately, but bear with me
we are making the second prototype very soon, and as most structural work has been done I had time to do a bunch of renders to test all different styles that could work with this case.
If you have a favorite please tell me! to keep things simple and affordable we will not be able to do crazy custom collors, but rather some pre-config models to choose from, so pick you favorites! I'm planning to have 4 to 5 styles to choose from, so it will be nice to know what you liked the most!
edit: redid the gallery, there is 14 numbered options now
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