Chimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

[PlayfulPhoenix]

When is the soonest people can get their hands on this case?

We'll be able to speak to a timeline pretty soon. I want to have that sort of stuff in writing before we announce anything.

The 980ti classified is 5.94 inches in height; Cerberus says 5.906" (150mm) PCI "height" overall, would the 980ti classified EVGA fit?

Probably not, because you need room at the power plugs for the cables. We suggest 130mm maximum height at the plugs to ensure compatibility, which, granted, is conservative just so we're on the safe side. But the Classy puts the plugs right up against the edge of the card, and at that height it will pretty much be 1mm away from the side panel.

Were there any significant changes in design?

Nothing that's a big deal, IMO. And most of the changes are improvements, if anything.

Put it this way, you wouldn't see a difference if you put the previous and final design next to eachother unless you were really looking for any, and component support and such is unaffected. Updating the product page on our website will take minutes.

 

[Phuncz]

That's all good news, I can't wait !

 

[GODenergy]

We'll be able to speak to a timeline pretty soon. I want to have that sort of stuff in writing before we announce anything.



Probably not, because you need room at the power plugs for the cables. We suggest 130mm maximum height at the plugs to ensure compatibility, which, granted, is conservative just so we're on the safe side. But the Classy puts the plugs right up against the edge of the card, and at that height it will pretty much be 1mm away from the side panel.



Nothing that's a big deal, IMO. And most of the changes are improvements, if anything.

Put it this way, you wouldn't see a difference if you put the previous and final design next to eachother unless you were really looking for any, and component support and such is unaffected. Updating the product page on our website will take minutes.

Thanks fine, I plan to do the trade up for a reference gtx1080 and will probably still have this mATX board and such, as I wait for the Kimera. I only heard of it via a hardwarecanucks video, which I was immediatelyblown away because it looked like a mATX ncase.

May I ask why the dimensions of the case wouldn't simply be made to fit the currently biggest (length and height) GPU on the market? so lets say teh Titan X or GTX980Ti Classified is the biggest CARD on the market (hypothetically) , wouldn't it be then easy to engineer the case to fit that so called 5.94"inches? and do this subsequently for every component, at the most, the top end components, CPU coolers, GPU, PSU, that will you would almost guarantee any potential purchasers could build the most high end rig in mATX form? Well, I guess it's more complicated than that.

Looking at the current mITX, mATX market is abysmal. I don't see how this case would not smash the opposition. Look at how popular the Ncase m1 is now, just because it's basically answering what the consumers wanted for years (coolermasters, silversstones, antec, fractals, lian li, etc.. cases are too big for mITX and mATX and most of the time can't even fit gtx980Ti's and are ugly aesthetically).

If I could order now, I would hehe

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

May I ask why the dimensions of the case wouldn't simply be made to fit the currently biggest (length and height) GPU on the market? so lets say teh Titan X or GTX980Ti Classified is the biggest CARD on the market (hypothetically) , wouldn't it be then easy to engineer the case to fit that so called 5.94"inches? and do this subsequently for every component, at the most, the top end components, CPU coolers, GPU, PSU, that will you would almost guarantee any potential purchasers could build the most high end rig in mATX form? Well, I guess it's more complicated than that.

Well, length-wise, we already pretty much support everything. Height-wise, we support a large majority of graphics cards, and it's really the ones that are objectively "ridiculously tall" that aren't going to fit. As for CPU coolers, it's a bit more restrictive, but you can still fit very beefy ones.

The reason we don't just look for the tallest card (or biggest component in any dimension) and then use that to determine the size of Cerberus is because it would make Cerberus gargantuan, and it would mean forcing everyone to accept a ton of volume while only a tiny minority of users would actually benefit. SFF is about making the right compromises, and not supporting cards and components that are, frankly, stupidly large, is one of those compromises.

Perhaps, if Cerberus is larger, you could do even more, but you can already fit most "extreme" graphics cards and CPU coolers and the like inside the enclosure, and it's tiny for an mATX enclosure (especially given what does fit already). We'd have to ruin the small size in order to get that extra 5%, and we lose a lot more than we gain from doing that.

The philosophy of SFF is one of saying that you're better off investing everything into the 90% you want, rather than the 100% you want that has to come along with an additional 50% that you don't want or need. Sure, you might get a few percentage points more graphics performance if the Classy card fits, but by not having that, you get a tiny case that's a monster. Isn't that the better compromise? Are you really going to notice that performance gap, compared to the size of the thing?

Looking at the current mITX, mATX market is abysmal. I don't see how this case would not smash the opposition. Look at how popular the Ncase m1 is now, just because it's basically answering what the consumers wanted for years (coolermasters, silversstones, antec, fractals, lian li, etc.. cases are too big for mITX and mATX and most of the time can't even fit gtx980Ti's and are ugly aesthetically).

We want to bring to mATX what projects like the M1 brought to mITX. We think that mATX is the best form factor for most, and that there are also people on mITX and ATX that would be best served by the form factor, if a case like Cerberus was available.

The final version of Cerberus, I think, will nail this. I think we've found the optimum, and I think people will be very happy with the final version, and when and how they can get their hands on it.

If I could order now, I would hehe

Me too

 

[Necere]

The reason we don't just look for the tallest card (or biggest component in any dimension) and then use that to determine the size of Cerberus is because it would make Cerberus gargantuan, and it would mean forcing everyone to accept a ton of volume while only a tiny minority of users would actually benefit

While I generally agree with your sentiments, I have to take issue with this claim. Full-size tower coolers are usually between 158-165mm tall, and are extremely common. How often do you see the Hyper 212 recommended, for example? I'd bet that a majority of aftermarket heatsinks that are sold fall into the full tower category. That's not to say that a good top-down cooler won't perform nearly as well, but for the absolute best (air-only) performance - both in terms of cooling and noise - large tower coolers can't be beat, and they are definitely used by a lot more than a tiny minority.

 

[Phuncz]

But aren't tall RAM modules and huge graphics cards the same basic problem: it usually fits for large ATX cases. People look at a roundup, skip to the conclusion and assume the one with the shiniest award is hands-down the best. Like the Asus STRIX cards: awesome cooling, if you have a large case. Or Corsair Dominator Platinum RAM modules which are twice as high: those won't fit below every tower cooler either.

In the end system builders, be it a person or a company, need to look at specs before purchasing and not randomly purchase what looks cool or seems to be the best. Every day you see people posting on forums: "I bought this graphics card but it doesn't fit in the case" or "my CPU cooler and RAM aren't compatible" because they didn't do the research. There's a reason why my friends and family come to me to build their PCs, they know it won't work by randomly selecting stuff and I am careful with component selection.

 

[Necere]

But aren't tall RAM modules and huge graphics cards the same basic problem: it usually fits for large ATX cases. People look at a roundup, skip to the conclusion and assume the one with the shiniest award is hands-down the best. Like the Asus STRIX cards: awesome cooling, if you have a large case. Or Corsair Dominator Platinum RAM modules which are twice as high: those won't fit below every tower cooler either.

In the end system builders, be it a person or a company, need to look at specs before purchasing and not randomly purchase what looks cool or seems to be the best. Every day you see people posting on forums: "I bought this graphics card but it doesn't fit in the case" or "my CPU cooler and RAM aren't compatible" because they didn't do the research. There's a reason why my friends and family come to me to build their PCs, they know it won't work by randomly selecting stuff and I am careful with component selection.

You're not wrong, but still the statement was that "only a tiny minority of users would benefit," when there's clearly many people using full tower coolers. I suppose it's debatable how much actual benefit they're getting with those vs. a big top-down, or even a 92mm cooler, but if you go by what people say, it's pretty common for people to ask for the "best" cooler, and that means full size tower coolers.

 

[iFreilicht]

it's pretty common for people to ask for the "best" cooler, and that means full size tower coolers.

It's also pretty common for people to ask for the "best" motherboard, the "best" CPU or the "best" phone, when really something less powerful would suffice.
From a marketing perspective, it's of course beneficial if your case fits the best components, but as you said, the actual benefit is questionable, and with the philosophy of KI, you're designing a case towards that, and not towards arbitrary and maybe senseless requests.
As I see it, the people that actually need those ridiculously large coolers would be better suited with an AIO, from which they would probably even benefit MORE than from a larger air cooler.

 

[Necere]

The one area where I would say supporting large coolers has a real impact is in building the absolute quietest system you can. For that, not only do you want pretty much the biggest heatsinks you can get, you also want a minimum of 120mm (and preferably 140mm) fans throughout, and limiting the CPU cooler size also has the effect of limiting the rear fan size to less than 120mm.

 

[iFreilicht]

We can agree on that. Wouldn't a 240 AIO be even better in terms of noise than a huge air-cooler, though?

 

[Necere]

We can agree on that. Wouldn't a 240 AIO be even better in terms of noise than a huge air-cooler, though?

No. The pump is an additional source of noise that you don't have with air cooling, and, while they aren't generally very loud, they also can't get as quiet as the best fans can. Whether they can be "quiet enough" is entirely subjective, and for some people they'll be fine. But for the absolute quietest system possible, you can't beat high-end air.

Watercooling has its value, of course: for high TDP GPUs and SLI/Crossfire, you can get much quieter under load with everything under water than pure air cooling could hope to achieve. At the other end of the spectrum, it has applications in SFF, where it can be advantageous to move the heat all to one place to dispose of. It's easier to make a quiet watercooled SFF than air cooled, IMO, at least for high performance parts.

 

[Pat-Roner]

No. The pump is an additional source of noise that you don't have with air cooling, and, while they aren't generally very loud, they also can't get as quiet as the best fans can. Whether they can be "quiet enough" is entirely subjective, and for some people they'll be fine. But for the absolute quietest system possible, you can't beat high-end air.

Watercooling has its value, of course: for high TDP GPUs and SLI/Crossfire, you can get much quieter under load with everything under water than pure air cooling could hope to achieve. At the other end of the spectrum, it has applications in SFF, where it can be advantageous to move the heat all to one place to dispose of. It's easier to make a quiet watercooled SFF than air cooled, IMO, at least for high performance parts.

This is very true. With a powerfull tower cooler there are usually two noise sources, but with a 240 AIO there are 3. In my experience tower coolers are superior noise wise - unless you are doing crazy overclocking. But people that want silent builds usually don't go that route.

 

[GODenergy]

Well, length-wise, we already pretty much support everything. Height-wise, we support a large majority of graphics cards, and it's really the ones that are objectively "ridiculously tall" that aren't going to fit. As for CPU coolers, it's a bit more restrictive, but you can still fit very beefy ones.

The reason we don't just look for the tallest card (or biggest component in any dimension) and then use that to determine the size of Cerberus is because it would make Cerberus gargantuan, and it would mean forcing everyone to accept a ton of volume while only a tiny minority of users would actually benefit. SFF is about making the right compromises, and not supporting cards and components that are, frankly, stupidly large, is one of those compromises.

Perhaps, if Cerberus is larger, you could do even more, but you can already fit most "extreme" graphics cards and CPU coolers and the like inside the enclosure, and it's tiny for an mATX enclosure (especially given what does fit already). We'd have to ruin the small size in order to get that extra 5%, and we lose a lot more than we gain from doing that.

The philosophy of SFF is one of saying that you're better off investing everything into the 90% you want, rather than the 100% you want that has to come along with an additional 50% that you don't want or need. Sure, you might get a few percentage points more graphics performance if the Classy card fits, but by not having that, you get a tiny case that's a monster. Isn't that the better compromise? Are you really going to notice that performance gap, compared to the size of the thing?



We want to bring to mATX what projects like the M1 brought to mITX. We think that mATX is the best form factor for most, and that there are also people on mITX and ATX that would be best served by the form factor, if a case like Cerberus was available.

The final version of Cerberus, I think, will nail this. I think we've found the optimum, and I think people will be very happy with the final version, and when and how they can get their hands on it.



Me too

Can you give an estimate when the case will be orderable? are we looking at july, august, or later or ?

 

[jeshikat]

I agree that saying a "tiny minority" would benefit or appreciate room for full-size air coolers isn't really correct, but it's a moot point since Cerberus isn't going to get any wider at this point.

Can you give an estimate when the case will be orderable? are we looking at july, august, or later or ?

We've yet to meet any of our estimated timelines so far. So I'll say hopefully July, more likely later, but almost certainly before the end of the year.

 

[PNP]

but almost certainly before the end of the year.

My DS214+ might even be finished indexing files by then

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

If we end up having a ship date that's anything that can be described as "the end of the year", I'll eat my shorts

We're really pushing to move quickly. Just don't want unaccounted for roadblocks to make us promise anything we can't keep. But we've got a lot done that reduces the possibility for those.

 

[Phuncz]

 

[skukza]

Is red an option this time?

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Is red an option this time?

We'll offer as many colors as we can, and prioritize in the same order we did for the Kickstarter: Black, White, Red, and Blue.

Black and white are 100%. The others, we'll let you know

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

I'd be damn tempted if it doesn't get off my budget.

On the heatsink topic, I'm a very happy user of a Noctua NH-C14 top flow cooler. Using only the bottom fan in upward flow configuration, due to 110mm height limitation, I have more than decent temps and it stays wisper quiet. Even with both fans fitted, the height remains on the low side.