Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

Increase volume from 9.8L to 10.5L to support MSI Suprim X 30XX?

  • Yes, worth the trade off to be more compatible with components

    Votes: 27 14.2%
  • No, not worth it b/c it is not better than the ROG 30XX, which fits now at <10L

    Votes: 163 85.8%

  • Total voters
    190

eedev

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 23, 2020
121
221

2020-04-17: lifted features from T1 EVO (aka V2.0), not sure to call it V1.2 or V1.5​



TLDR:
- Still less than 10L, either 9.8 or 9.95L, currently 135x220x335mm
- 46mm under the mobo for Radiator + Fan, 20.5mm TX240 radiator + *dual 25mm thick fans, 27 or 30mm thick radiator + *dual 15mm slim fans
- Support dual 240mm radiator setup, with 48mm CPU cooler height left for Pump & Res combo
- Will support both ROG 30XX and MSI Gaming X Trio 30XX, debating MSI Suprim X 30XX support, it's 13mm longer and will push volume over 10L
- Support 1.25, 1.50, 1.75, 2, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 3, 3.25 GPU Slots for more GPU vs CPU space allocation possibilities

How does it compare to T1 V1.1 *IMO
- This update is really for 3 kinds of people: 1) need to fit ROG 30XX , 2) need to fit MSI Gaming X Trio 30XX, 3) want dual 240 radiator setup.
- T1 V1.1 is overkill for most setups, so most don't need this update

I have a few questions:
  • This design (side radiator mobo side) implies that in order to use 2x240 one would need a single slot watercooled GPU right? My GPU for example uses two slots because of it's HDMI stacked ports which makes this impossible for me.
  • On the renders we see that the "main" radiator is on the bottom, like the current T1 was designed but almost everyone flipped their case so that radiator is on top because it seems to perform better, why did you keep it this way here?
Thanks!
 
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Reactions: thelaughingman

dalyboy

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Apr 18, 2021
3
3

2020-04-17: lifted features from T1 EVO (aka V2.0), not sure to call it V1.2 or V1.5​



TLDR:
- Still less than 10L, either 9.8 or 9.95L, currently 135x220x335mm
- 46mm under the mobo for Radiator + Fan, 20.5mm TX240 radiator + *dual 25mm thick fans, 27 or 30mm thick radiator + *dual 15mm slim fans
- Support dual 240mm radiator setup, with 48mm CPU cooler height left for Pump & Res combo
- Will support both ROG 30XX and MSI Gaming X Trio 30XX, debating MSI Suprim X 30XX support, it's 13mm longer and will push volume over 10L
- Support 1.25, 1.50, 1.75, 2, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 3, 3.25 GPU Slots for more GPU vs CPU space allocation possibilities

How does it compare to T1 V1.1 *IMO
- This update is really for 3 kinds of people: 1) need to fit ROG 30XX , 2) need to fit MSI Gaming X Trio 30XX, 3) want dual 240 radiator setup.
- T1 V1.1 is overkill for most setups, so most don't need this update

Been following this thread with interest. This looks great! 😊

Without knowing implications on manufacturing process...In my opinion get the MSI Suprim X support included, if that can be done with 135x220x350mm dimensions then it should mean volume still below below 10.5 L, can still be 10L for marketing. 😉 1L more than the original but for good reason - you can say ALL air cooled GPU from Nvidia 3000 series and AMD RX 6000 series ARE supported; this takes the ‘guessing game‘ out of it for builders especially with the current situation with the GPU shortages.

From what I’ve seen the 30XX Suprim X are one of the better 30XX AIB variants, a bit big, but considered the most ‘premium’ (based on reviews) - Would be a shame not to support it.

With this and the other planned changes, I would most definitely consider this a ‘V1.5’. If a PCIe 4.0 riser can be sourced for inclusion (optionally if required etc.) - V1.5 could then be a ’final’ evolution for Nvidia 3000 and AMD RX6000 generation, the ‘ultimate’ SFF case for this generation!

Nobody knows the future but I can’t see GPUs getting bigger than a Suprim X next generation; certainly not founders and made by AMD variants.

Good luck! Excited by this, and can not wait for this to hopefully get into my and other customer‘s hands. 👍🏽
 

Wahaha360

a.k.a W360
Original poster
SFFLAB
NCASE
Feb 23, 2015
1,776
8,614
I have a few questions:
  • This design (side radiator mobo side) implies that in order to use 2x240 one would need a single slot watercooled GPU right? My GPU for example uses two slots because of it's HDMI stacked ports which makes this impossible for me.
  • On the renders we see that the "main" radiator is on the bottom, like the current T1 was designed but almost everyone flipped their case so that radiator is on top because it seems to perform better, why did you keep it this way here?
Thanks!

1) Yes, correct, only 1 slot GPU in water block will work. I have the EK-Asus 3090, using it for fit and testing. People who wants to fit *two 240 in a <10L case are the crazy ones, it’s a free feature for them.

2) it’s just render that way, you can flip the case.
 

FischOderAal

Average Stuffer
Apr 15, 2020
65
72

2020-04-17: lifted features from T1 EVO (aka V2.0), not sure to call it V1.2 or V1.5​



TLDR:
- Still less than 10L, either 9.8 or 9.95L, currently 135x220x335mm
- 46mm under the mobo for Radiator + Fan, 20.5mm TX240 radiator + *dual 25mm thick fans, 27 or 30mm thick radiator + *dual 15mm slim fans
- Support dual 240mm radiator setup, with 48mm CPU cooler height left for Pump & Res combo
- Will support both ROG 30XX and MSI Gaming X Trio 30XX, debating MSI Suprim X 30XX support, it's 13mm longer and will push volume over 10L
- Support 1.25, 1.50, 1.75, 2, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 3, 3.25 GPU Slots for more GPU vs CPU space allocation possibilities

How does it compare to T1 V1.1 *IMO
- This update is really for 3 kinds of people: 1) need to fit ROG 30XX , 2) need to fit MSI Gaming X Trio 30XX, 3) want dual 240 radiator setup.
- T1 V1.1 is overkill for most setups, so most don't need this update

What about the stand feature? Is it planned to be moved over from EVO as well?
 

Wahaha360

a.k.a W360
Original poster
SFFLAB
NCASE
Feb 23, 2015
1,776
8,614
Been following this thread with interest. This looks great! 😊

Without knowing implications on manufacturing process...In my opinion get the MSI Suprim X support included, if that can be done with 135x220x350mm dimensions then it should mean volume still below below 10.5 L, can still be 10L for marketing. 😉 1L more than the original but for good reason - you can say ALL air cooled GPU from Nvidia 3000 series and AMD RX 6000 series ARE supported; this takes the ‘guessing game‘ out of it for builders especially with the current situation with the GPU shortages.

From what I’ve seen the 30XX Suprim X are one of the better 30XX AIB variants, a bit big, but considered the most ‘premium’ (based on reviews) - Would be a shame not to support it.

With this and the other planned changes, I would most definitely consider this a ‘V1.5’. If a PCIe 4.0 riser can be sourced for inclusion (optionally if required etc.) - V1.5 could then be a ’final’ evolution for Nvidia 3000 and AMD RX6000 generation, the ‘ultimate’ SFF case for this generation!

Nobody knows the future but I can’t see GPUs getting bigger than a Suprim X next generation; certainly not founders and made by AMD variants.

Good luck! Excited by this, and can not wait for this to hopefully get into my and other customer‘s hands. 👍🏽

Supporting this GPU has been very divisive among the people I have asked. The only way is with a poll, to that end, we have it here and also on subreddit as well.

You make a good argument, but there are also arguments against compatiblity, where do you draw the line and stop right.

I guess the community will decide.
 

dalyboy

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Apr 18, 2021
3
3
Supporting this GPU has been very divisive among the people I have asked. The only way is with a poll, to that end, we have it here and also on subreddit as well.

You make a good argument, but there are also arguments against compatiblity, where do you draw the line and stop right.

I guess the community will decide.

Yep, fair to let the community decide.

Defo. no performance benefit in supporting Suprim, as most 30XX cards end up at around the same point for the model once tinkered with. My opinion was based on feeling it was easier ‘packaging‘ the product (metaphorically) for sale and have a bit of a unique selling point, no checking of compatibility lists for potential buyers - i.e. it just works with every GPU from 30XX generation.

You are right though, another future product could end up being incompatible.

Whilst I doubt we will get many bigger product variants being released this generation, aside from perhaps ’halo’ products. Hopefully the next generation of cards (esp. Nvidia) are not so power hungry, so the trend for bigger and bigger GPUs doesn’t continue.

I wasn’t sure if staying below 10L was a principle of the project, if so, I totally respect that. Saying small as possible would be beneficial for transportation/shipping and for those looking to carry to different locations regularly. I don’t think anybody would notice the 10.5L under normal usage though.

My Sapphire 6900XT will fit either way. 🙂
 

dalyboy

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Apr 18, 2021
3
3
Really good reading the considered comments on Reddit in relation to the sizing vote. On reflection I think sticking to a limit of 10L is a good principle that shouldn’t be compromised. If a few cards are too big then that is an ultimately a compromise the needs to be made in order maintain a truly SFF machine. Likewise for other types of components, otherwise there is a risk of 10.5L becoming 11L, and then so on.

I think the vote is looking to head in the direction of sticking to 10L anyway, which is all good. Look forward to this getting into production.
 

Wahaha360

a.k.a W360
Original poster
SFFLAB
NCASE
Feb 23, 2015
1,776
8,614
@Wahaha360 given you are considering making the case bigger, what about making it 9mm taller to support 240mm AIOs with 27mm rads and 25mm fans?

This makes the case > 10L.

Others will also ask for 30mm rad AIO support, for AIOs like NZXT Kraken, so you can add 3mm on top of your proposal, where does it end? There are many sandwich style cases 10-14L that support mainstream 240 AIO + dual 25mm thick fans. Why not one of those, so many to choose from.

Another issue is performance expectations. This layout is a lot more dense or crammed than other layouts, fan with good static pressure really helps. Unfortunately, most AIOs bundle inferior fans compare to the Noctua / Arctic offerings, a lot of 25mm fans are even *worse than Noctua / Arctic slim fans in terms of noise vs performance. By limiting the fans to Noctua / Arctic slim fans on 240 AIO builds, people will likely get better performance vs. noise.

Anyways, making the case >10L sacrifices uniqueness for questionable performance gain seems sacrilegious.

I guess it's also a builder mentality, I like building things, so I prefer to encourage others to build their own full loop (soft tube) over getting an AIO.
 

thelaughingman

SFF Guru
Jul 14, 2018
1,007
1,090
Others will also ask for 30mm rad AIO support
@ellroy80 and that only takes into account the thickness of the rad, some AIO rad may be wider or longer etc. even some EK-240 AIO does not fit due to manufacturing tolerance on the width of the rad

I guess it's also a builder mentality, I like building things, so I prefer to encourage others to build their own full loop (soft tube) over getting an AIO.
I can personally attest to this - I built my first custom loop in the T1 and never going back. the T1 v1.1-1.2 (or 1.5?) has a clear purpose of existence, clear positioning in terms of target user segment and price segment and you've been communicating that intent well. the proof is in the pudding the explosion of T1 popularity is a testament to that.

btw on the Suprim X support - it's pretty clear from both polls that the majority doesn't want it, and anecdotally Hardware Unboxed is recommending the X Trio over the Suprim X model LOL

 

Skripka

Cat-Dog Perch Manager
Bronze Supporter
May 18, 2020
208
210
@Wahaha360 given you are considering making the case bigger, what about making it 9mm taller to support 240mm AIOs with 27mm rads and 25mm fans?

Checkout this 3D printed mod:

 

Wahaha360

a.k.a W360
Original poster
SFFLAB
NCASE
Feb 23, 2015
1,776
8,614
Can we subscribe to a newletter os something to get notified as soon as the V1.2 is available to purchase? Also, can we reserve?

Thank you !!

Too early, we will probably list on the website for everyone to subscribe when we are done testing the prototype.