Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[kazuma86]

With first flights to Poland being resumed I finally got to my T1 from test shipment. Yay!

Sorry for bad quality pics. And please don't laugh about HD 7770, I know and I will upgrade some day.

Standard hole alignment issue already reported. DisplayPort unusable because of it being too close to the edge in default build and HDMI barely giving signal. I will try to align it again and see if it helps.
Embarrassing issue with L12S. It doesn't fit with Aorus x570. I've used it in Ghost before and had to bend the pipes. It is lower then new but the structural bar in T1 still presses on it and bends it slightly in. I wouldn't recommend trying it with full 70mm. Rotating 90 degree may help (didn't try yet) but heat pipes would go beyond motherboard and potentially interfere with fan. It didn't fit in ghost at all when rotated. Also positioning L12S with heat pipes upside down is not recommended by Noctua, so that limits options.

There is L12S Ghost edition

NH-L12 Ghost S1 Edition

Noctua’s classic NH-L12 has proven to be the best air cooling solution for Louqe’s award-winning Ghost S1 enclosure. With its single NF-B9 PWM 92mm fan, the new Ghost S1 edition is tailored for use in this case and has been updated with the latest SecuFirm2™ mounting hardware for all current...

noctua.at

I hope, with this T1 Hype.. there will be AIO with good QC will produce for T1

 

[bynio]

There is L12S Ghost edition

NH-L12 Ghost S1 Edition

Noctua’s classic NH-L12 has proven to be the best air cooling solution for Louqe’s award-winning Ghost S1 enclosure. With its single NF-B9 PWM 92mm fan, the new Ghost S1 edition is tailored for use in this case and has been updated with the latest SecuFirm2™ mounting hardware for all current...

noctua.at

I hope, with this T1 Hype.. there will be AIO with good QC will produce for T1

Yes I'm aware and it will probably fit, but this one fit "well enough" in ghost already and there's not much more that can be done because fan rests on LPX memory.
That being said L12S is problematic.

 

[bynio]

What I fail to see before is that with clean front panel T1 works great as a vertical case.

 

[itsmichael]

What I fail to see before is that with clean front panel T1 works great as a vertical case.

It does and has been mentioned before! Someone tried to design a bottom panel to make it happen - don't know if they were able to finish that project tho

 

[bynio]

It does and has been mentioned before! Someone tried to design a bottom panel to make it happen - don't know if they were able to finish that project tho

Yes, he proposed a collar to hide cables, but standing on front panel works nice too.

FormD-T1 Vertical orientation base

I've been tinkering with the idea of creating a base to mount my T1 on to convert it to a vertical case. The base would be affixed to the case by the same screw holes which mount the top and bottom panels of the case. Since the T1 doesn't have front IO, I thought about adding them to the base...

smallformfactor.net

 

[bynio]

With first flights to Poland being resumed I finally got to my T1 from test shipment. Yay!

Sorry for bad quality pics. And please don't laugh about HD 7770, I know and I will upgrade some day.

Standard hole alignment issue already reported. DisplayPort unusable because of it being too close to the edge in default build and HDMI barely giving signal. I will try to align it again and see if it helps.
Embarrassing issue with L12S. It doesn't fit with Aorus x570. I've used it in Ghost before and had to bend the pipes. It is lower then new but the structural bar in T1 still presses on it and bends it slightly in. I wouldn't recommend trying it with full 70mm. Rotating 90 degree may help (didn't try yet) but heat pipes would go beyond motherboard and potentially interfere with fan. It didn't fit in ghost at all when rotated. Also positioning L12S with heat pipes upside down is not recommended by Noctua, so that limits options.

Ok, using less bulky DisplayPort connector helps. Basically element that supports graphics card and back plate is cut 45 deg and leaves less space. At least for that particular card.

 

[ManaNeko]

I apologize if I go a little off topic, but since the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240's performance is critical to the success of this case, it might be of interest.

I'm playing with the idea of putting an NVME SSD waterblock in a LT240 CPU (AMD Zen 3 4700 or higher) + GPU (eVGA 1080Ti FTW3) loop. I've seen blocks that can lower the heat of the NVME down 20°C, so I think it's a path worth exploring.
The rule of thumb I've heard for the last 15 years is one 120mm radiator per component in the loop.
Granted, the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240 is an ok piece of kit, but it's got low FPI density (lowest in AlphaCool's catalogue IIRC), isn't very thick and a pump which isn't that fast either. So that would add up to 3 components to cool for 2 capacity slots. Also, an NVME PCIe 4.0 heats up almost as much as a GPU.

Do you guys think the LT240 loop might get overwhelmed by the heat dumped by this setup, given that I plan on fitting the radiator with 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 and 1 NF-A12x25, or will it simply heat up a bit more and make the fans spin a tad faster to reach homeostasis?

Also, I'm hearing people disputing the value of using larger inner diameter hoses because of the restriction caused by the 1/4G fitting. However, I never thought that this was the issue at stake.
The way I see it (and bear with me, I'm not that kind of engineer), the value of having larger hoses in a closed-loop system is for its ability to hold a larger volume of water.
The benefit of that being that a larger body of water can store a larger amount of calories in the form of heat, which would result overall in the slowing down of heat accumulation and hence result in a natural softening of the fan curves, as they don't need to work as fast to dissipate that energy since homeostasis takes longer to reach, leading to a quieter system overall.

Does that reasoning make sense in practice?

 

[Speedster]

Also, I'm hearing people disputing the value of using larger inner diameter hoses because of the restriction caused by the 1/4G fitting. However, I never thought that this was the issue at stake.
The way I see it (and bear with me, I'm not that kind of engineer), the value of having larger hoses in a closed-loop system is for its ability to hold a larger volume of water.
The benefit of that being that a larger body of water can store a larger amount of calories in the form of heat, which would result overall in the slowing down of heat accumulation and hence result in a natural softening of the fan curves, as they don't need to work as fast to dissipate that energy since homeostatis takes longer to reach, leading to a quieter system overall.

Does that reasoning make sense in practice?

Where does the additional volume of water come from? The ID of the tubing is the same in order to be installed into the fitting, unless you plan on changing out all the fittings too?

 

[element72]

I apologize if I go a little off topic, but since the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240's performance is critical to the success of this case, it might be of interest.

I'm playing with the idea of putting an NVME SSD waterblock in a LT240 CPU (AMD Zen 3 4700 or higher) + GPU (eVGA 1080Ti FTW3) loop. I've seen blocks that can lower the heat of the NVME down 20°C, so I think it's a path worth exploring.
The rule of thumb I've heard for the last 15 years is one 120mm radiator per component in the loop.
Granted, the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240 is an ok piece of kit, but it's got low FPI density (lowest in AlphaCool's catalogue IIRC), isn't very thick and a pump which isn't that fast either. So that would add up to 3 components to cool for 2 capacity slots. Also, an NVME PCIe 4.0 heats up almost as much as a GPU.

Do you guy think the LT240 loop be overwhelmed by the heat dumped by this setup, given that I plan on fitting the radiator with 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 and 1 NF-A12x25, or will it simply heat up a bit more and make the fans spin a tad faster to reach a homeostasis?

Also, I'm hearing people disputing the value of using larger inner diameter hoses because of the restriction caused by the 1/4G fitting. However, I never thought that this was the issue at stake.
The way I see it (and bear with me, I'm not that kind of engineer), the value of having larger hoses in a closed-loop system is for its ability to hold a larger volume of water.
The benefit of that being that a larger body of water can store a larger amount of calories in the form of heat, which would result overall in the slowing down of heat accumulation and hence result in a natural softening of the fan curves, as they don't need to work as fast to dissipate that energy since homeostatis takes longer to reach, leading to a quieter system overall.

Does that reasoning make sense in practice?

You can't do that. I think you want to do this setup: 15mm and 25mm fans, height wise.

 

[element72]

how come the pics were taken down? https://imgur.com/gallery/xrunIMT I wished I saved them because they had some interesting angles in the pictures.

 

[PKAWA]

I apologize if I go a little off topic, but since the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240's performance is critical to the success of this case, it might be of interest.

I'm playing with the idea of putting an NVME SSD waterblock in a LT240 CPU (AMD Zen 3 4700 or higher) + GPU (eVGA 1080Ti FTW3) loop. I've seen blocks that can lower the heat of the NVME down 20°C, so I think it's a path worth exploring.
The rule of thumb I've heard for the last 15 years is one 120mm radiator per component in the loop.
Granted, the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240 is an ok piece of kit, but it's got low FPI density (lowest in AlphaCool's catalogue IIRC), isn't very thick and a pump which isn't that fast either. So that would add up to 3 components to cool for 2 capacity slots. Also, an NVME PCIe 4.0 heats up almost as much as a GPU.

Do you guy think the LT240 loop be overwhelmed by the heat dumped by this setup, given that I plan on fitting the radiator with 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 and 1 NF-A12x25, or will it simply heat up a bit more and make the fans spin a tad faster to reach a homeostasis?

Also, I'm hearing people disputing the value of using larger inner diameter hoses because of the restriction caused by the 1/4G fitting. However, I never thought that this was the issue at stake.
The way I see it (and bear with me, I'm not that kind of engineer), the value of having larger hoses in a closed-loop system is for its ability to hold a larger volume of water.
The benefit of that being that a larger body of water can store a larger amount of calories in the form of heat, which would result overall in the slowing down of heat accumulation and hence result in a natural softening of the fan curves, as they don't need to work as fast to dissipate that energy since homeostatis takes longer to reach, leading to a quieter system overall.

Does that reasoning make sense in practice?

Cool to see that there are even waterblocks for SSD's. Didn't know that. But i'm wondering where you'd want to put it because the front will be cool enough and the back where it's needed doesn't provide the space to place it in there.

 

[DrHudacris]

You can't do that. I think you want to do this setup: 15mm and 25mm fans, height wise.

That's correct. It's only possible to run 2x 15mm fans and 1x 25mm fan with the TX radiator.

 

[ManaNeko]

That's correct. It's only possible to run 2x 15mm fans and 1x 25mm fan with the TX radiator.

Is that an issue with the screws digging too deep on both sides of the rad at the same time?

 

[ManaNeko]

Where does the additional volume of water come from? The ID of the tubing is the same in order to be installed into the fitting, unless you plan on changing out all the fittings too?

The threads are G1/4, but you can use larger ID fittings for larger hoses. Or did I miss something completely?

 

[TSOF]

That's correct. It's only possible to run 2x 15mm fans and 1x 25mm fan with the TX radiator.

How are the temps/noise with that setup? How much does the additional 24mm help?

Cheers, I think you might have answered this before?

 

[carrefinho]

I apologize if I go a little off topic, but since the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240's performance is critical to the success of this case, it might be of interest.

I'm playing with the idea of putting an NVME SSD waterblock in a LT240 CPU (AMD Zen 3 4700 or higher) + GPU (eVGA 1080Ti FTW3) loop. I've seen blocks that can lower the heat of the NVME down 20°C, so I think it's a path worth exploring.
The rule of thumb I've heard for the last 15 years is one 120mm radiator per component in the loop.
Granted, the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240 is an ok piece of kit, but it's got low FPI density (lowest in AlphaCool's catalogue IIRC), isn't very thick and a pump which isn't that fast either. So that would add up to 3 components to cool for 2 capacity slots. Also, an NVME PCIe 4.0 heats up almost as much as a GPU.

Do you guy think the LT240 loop be overwhelmed by the heat dumped by this setup, given that I plan on fitting the radiator with 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 and 1 NF-A12x25, or will it simply heat up a bit more and make the fans spin a tad faster to reach a homeostasis?

Also, I'm hearing people disputing the value of using larger inner diameter hoses because of the restriction caused by the 1/4G fitting. However, I never thought that this was the issue at stake.
The way I see it (and bear with me, I'm not that kind of engineer), the value of having larger hoses in a closed-loop system is for its ability to hold a larger volume of water.
The benefit of that being that a larger body of water can store a larger amount of calories in the form of heat, which would result overall in the slowing down of heat accumulation and hence result in a natural softening of the fan curves, as they don't need to work as fast to dissipate that energy since homeostatis takes longer to reach, leading to a quieter system overall.

Does that reasoning make sense in practice?

The high temperature on PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives is the result of small passive heatsinks in combination with limited thermal transfer(thermal pads). The actual controller that contributes to most of the heat output consumes only 7 watts under load, in no way comparable to a GPU that could draw upwards of 300 watts, and thus doesn't really count as a major heat-outputting component to be considered in a water-cooling loop. I have not tested this but I'd assume strapping a small fan to these SSDs(if they have a decent heatsink in the first place) would achieve similar thermal improvements as forced airflow is very effective on heatsinks. Sure if you like the look or whatever go for it but SSDs are really not worth water-cooling imo.

 

[Ashenfall]

I apologize if I go a little off topic, but since the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240's performance is critical to the success of this case, it might be of interest.

I don't think it's correct to say the LT240 is "critical to the success of the case". The case can be successful by itself using air coolers and other AIOs. LT240 has simply been tested to be, so far, the best radiator for thermal performance whilst still not being a huge PITA to fit which is why everyone's latching onto it. But if you spec your system right, air coolers and 120mm AIOs are sufficient

Granted, the AlphaCool Eisbäre LT240 is an ok piece of kit, but it's got low FPI density (lowest in AlphaCool's catalogue IIRC), isn't very thick and a pump which isn't that fast either.

Problem is I don't believe there is another 240mm radiator that is full copper, at or under 27mm thick (the absolute limit for easy fitment), with higher FPI. Other 240mm full copper rads on the market that are thicker and higher FPI are either *too* thick (30mm) or too wide and long to fit, and higher FPI rads with just the right thickness are aluminium, not full copper

Pump is relatively easy to replace

Also, I'm hearing people disputing the value of using larger inner diameter hoses because of the restriction caused by the 1/4G fitting. However, I never thought that this was the issue at stake.
The way I see it (and bear with me, I'm not that kind of engineer), the value of having larger hoses in a closed-loop system is for its ability to hold a larger volume of water.
The benefit of that being that a larger body of water can store a larger amount of calories in the form of heat, which would result overall in the slowing down of heat accumulation and hence result in a natural softening of the fan curves, as they don't need to work as fast to dissipate that energy since homeostatis takes longer to reach, leading to a quieter system overall.

You're correct in think larger ID hoses lead to an increase in water volume. There was a famous incident of cheating in an old NASCAR event where a car used larger ID diameter fuel hoses that allowed it to carry more fuel in the total system than was allowed by regulations. Same principle here

On the scale of what you can realistically fit into the T1 without running into routing/kinking issues? I don't believe you'll get an appreciable increase in volume over a more sensible ID. This isn't a car.

As for the slowing down heat accumulation, you're correct, but again the difference isn't as big as you think. Have a look at this video:
Compare results for the Arctic Liquid Freezer 280 vs NZXT Kraken X62 (both 280mm rads, Arctic's rad is 8mm thicker). The Arctic takes 51 seconds longer to reach steady state. Do you think you would notice that when you're sitting at your computer for hours?

 

[TSOF]

An aftermarket heatsink combined with a small fan in front of the MOBO (as Fabio has demonstrated) should dramatically reduce NVME temps.

 

[aexeq]

I think I might push you in the right direction @ManaNeko
PCIe Gen4 SSDs tend to get hot not, because they output that much heat, they rather just don't get actively cooled.
The SSD shouldn't even add 10% more heat to your loop.
Also using another fan with the NH-A12x25 in push/pull won't increase cooling much, if at all.
I tend to use the lower FPI radiators due to their ability to scale better with low fan RPM.
IMO the TX240 would only be good, if you plan to use 2 12x15 fans for clearance reasons.
Otherwise the SE 240 Classic would be my preferred choice with one 12x15 and one 12x25.

You should tag @fabio for some detailed information about performance tho.

 

[DrHudacris]

Is that an issue with the screws digging too deep on both sides of the rad at the same time?

Hmm, I'm not sure. Now that I think about it, I think it could be possible, but really pointless because the LT rad is just 16fpi. Which don't benefit much from push/pull and higher fan speeds.

How are the temps/noise with that setup? How much does the additional 24mm help?

Cheers, I think you might have answered this before?

My thermal data isn't as extensive as @fabio, but he reports 1-2 degrees cooler for an otherwise identical set-up components wise. Noise is pretty good too, I keep the slim fans at 0 rpm when idling.

Problem is I don't believe there is another 240mm radiator that is full copper, at or under 27mm thick (the absolute limit for easy fitment), with higher FPI. Other 240mm full copper rads on the market that are thicker and higher FPI are either *too* thick (30mm) or too wide and long to fit, and higher FPI rads with just the right thickness are aluminium, not full copper.

The TX240 is a 22fpi copper radiator. According to @fabio's testing, is also about 1-2 degrees cooler.

Also using another fan with the NH-A12x25 in push/pull won't increase cooling much, if at all.
I tend to use the lower FPI radiators due to their ability to scale better with low fan RPM.
IMO the TX240 would only be good, if you plan to use 2 12x15 fans for clearance reasons.
Otherwise the SE 240 Classic would be my preferred choice with one 12x15 and one 12x25.

This is true, a negligible difference. But I think it's still possible to fit 1x 15mm and 1x 25mm fan with the TX240, but you'd have to use short bracket and can only attach the radiator with 2 screws.