DAN C4-SFX

Kazker

Minimal Tinkerer
Feb 13, 2020
3
0
Hi Dan, I think that's a very smart design. Congratulations. I can't wait to see it in production. I'd even buy you a prototype 😜

Do you have a release date in mind? I don't know whether to buy an ncase m1 on the 22nd or wait for your new creation.

Thanks for your talent!
 

Navic

Average Stuffer
Jan 6, 2019
65
80
I'm not trying to speak for DAN, but I think that he doesn't want to give out any predictions because he doesn't want to get people's hopes up and then crush them when there's delays. Judging by the last thread and from the Sidearmd thread, nothing goes to plan, and giving predictions for production and such (especially at this stage, I don't even think he has a prototype) is useless, because they are going to change and just gives false hope. These projects take a while, follow it and wait. If you need something now, get it, and when this comes out, you could sell that case and get this one.
 

ckaym

Chassis Packer
Oct 14, 2018
20
11
I don't doubt this is going to be good SFF case, but I see it's another mid-size-SFF that focus on supporting multiple modes rather than be optimized for one specific purpose. As result it got fat 14.5mm (30mm thicker than A4). So it's a compact case, but again will not be very portable.
I was hoping to have something like the Ghost S1 but at about 124~130mm thick, to make it easier to fit in backpacks (for example 'Manfrotto Manhattan mover-50'), and to keep it lightweight (which Dan A4 did great at 1.25kg, but Ghost S1 did so poorly at about 3kg without the TopHats needed for water-cooling).
Ie given that Dan already have great small mostly air-cooled case with the A4, the C4 would be great to focus on water-cooling while keeping the slim profile and lightweight construction.
Imo the target parameters should be around 125~130mm which will fit fine 240mm rads (which are typically 280mm long incl. the ports).
The basic body (imagine a Ghost S1 w/o any hats) should be as tall to barely fit the itx-mobo with minimal extra space for cables (& later tubes) ie about 185mm.
Just for comparison I was seriously considering buying A4 and modding it with rads on top (and bottom) with 240mm rads, but its height of 200mm was over the limit. The height of a "Hat" module containing a 240mm rad would be about 55mm tall, and it you want to fit 2 of those (to make it fully water-cooled and overclockable) it means that you'll need to add at least 110mm to the main body. The limit for how tall such case should be is imo at 300mm (again for easier choice of backpacks), which means that a bottom+body+top rads should be something like at most: 55mm+190mm+55mm (ideally the main body should be few mm shorter to allow for small tolerances).
The length of the case is a bit easier in regards to fitting in backpack, because most of them can fit at least 400mm (and many get closer to 500mm).
The minimal length imo should be about 350mm (so that it has little extra space for separate pump like EK SPC-60 for example, probably with just a top instead of reservoir to save on space). But length can be easily increased to 400mm to allow for more PSU mounting orientations, and extra space for cables, tubes & perhaps small or flat reservoir. Ideally length should be adjustable, perhaps with extendable rails. Now ideally all dimensions should be extendable, but that'll be more complex to design, rather than fix 2 of them and only add rails for the 3rd dimension.
Regarding weight if you can keep the main body under 1.5kg (from the A4 it's obviously possible), and the additional Top/Bottom "hats" about 0.5kg each it'll give still portable (like backpackable) sff pcat least if watercooled with full-aluminium loop like EK-FluidGaming for example. The target for fully built pc like this incl. two hats (Top & bottom) ie with 2x240mm rads, in a single loop with single pump, should be around 7kg and under 13L.

Here's a rough example for my idea, with the case frame made of 8 pieces of 60x20x2mm aluminium extruded profiles with necessary length and holes (minus the side-panels and top-n-bottom mesh filters)
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/d0c8c865-c776-47bc-9a12-01f6466da15f/SFF-ITX-PC-Case-126L

Ie compare it with the desktop-laptops like Eurocom Sky X7C (i9-9900K, RTX 2080) which are close to 6kg and obviously incl. display and keyboard (which you would have to add to a sff-pc - ie either carry or ensure you'll have them where you're going to use it). But the extra weight (and inconvenience that you can use it on your lap) of such sff-pc can be offset by the better & quiet cooling allowing for overclocking, and much better upgrade-ability, compared to any laptop.
Just keep in mind that if you disregard mobility of such pc it become unimportant which case is smaller/lighter/better-optimized, as it'll be almost the same if it's a 7L case or 15L case.
 
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NinoPecorino

Tweezer Squeezer
Gold Supporter
Nov 24, 2017
302
217
I don't doubt this is going to be good SFF case, but I see it's another mid-size-SFF that focus on supporting multiple modes rather than be optimized for one specific purpose. As result it got fat 14.5mm (30mm thicker than A4). So it's a compact case, but again will not be very portable.
I was hoping to have something like the Ghost S1 but at about 124~130mm thick, to make it easier to fit in backpacks (for example 'Manfrotto Manhattan mover-50'), and to keep it lightweight (which Dan A4 did great at 1.25kg, but Ghost S1 did so poorly at about 3kg without the TopHats needed for water-cooling).
Ie given that Dan already have great small mostly air-cooled case with the A4, the C4 would be great to focus on water-cooling while keeping the slim profile and lightweight construction.
Imo the target parameters should be around 125~130mm which will fit fine 240mm rads (which are typically 280mm long incl. the ports).
The basic body (imagine a Ghost S1 w/o any hats) should be as tall to barely fit the itx-mobo with minimal extra space for cables (& later tubes) ie about 185mm.
Just for comparison I was seriously considering buying A4 and modding it with rads on top (and bottom) with 240mm rads, but its height of 200mm was over the limit. The height of a "Hat" module containing a 240mm rad would be about 55mm tall, and it you want to fit 2 of those (to make it fully water-cooled and overclockable) it means that you'll need to add at least 110mm to the main body. The limit for how tall such case should be is imo at 300mm (again for easier choice of backpacks), which means that a bottom+body+top rads should be something like at most: 55mm+190mm+55mm (ideally the main body should be few mm shorter to allow for small tolerances).
The length of the case is a bit easier in regards to fitting in backpack, because most of them can fit at least 400mm (and many get closer to 500mm).
The minimal length imo should be about 350mm (so that it has little extra space for separate pump like EK SPC-60 for example, probably with just a top instead of reservoir to save on space). But length can be easily increased to 400mm to allow for more PSU mounting orientations, and extra space for cables, tubes & perhaps small or flat reservoir. Ideally length should be adjustable, perhaps with extendable rails. Now ideally all dimensions should be extendable, but that'll be more complex to design, rather than fix 2 of them and only add rails for the 3rd dimension.
Regarding weight if you can keep the main body under 1.5kg (from the A4 it's obviously possible), and the additional Top/Bottom "hats" about 0.5kg each it'll give still portable (like backpackable) sff pcat least if watercooled with full-aluminium loop like EK-FluidGaming for example. The target for fully built pc like this incl. two hats (Top & bottom) ie with 2x240mm rads, in a single loop with single pump, should be around 7kg and under 13L.

Here's a rough example for my idea, with the case frame made of 8 pieces of 60x20x2mm aluminium extruded profiles with necessary length and holes (minus the side-panels and top-n-bottom mesh filters)
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/d0c8c865-c776-47bc-9a12-01f6466da15f/SFF-ITX-PC-Case-126L

Ie compare it with the desktop-laptops like Eurocom Sky X7C (i9-9900K, RTX 2080) which are close to 6kg and obviously incl. display and keyboard (which you would have to add to a sff-pc - ie either carry or ensure you'll have them where you're going to use it). But the extra weight (and inconvenience that you can use it on your lap) of such sff-pc can be offset by the better & quiet cooling allowing for overclocking, and much better upgrade-ability, compared to any laptop.
Just keep in mind that if you disregard mobility of such pc it become unimportant which case is smaller/lighter/better-optimized, as it'll be almost the same if it's a 7L case or 15L case.
so you're saying you don't like it?
 

gteixeira

Efficiency Noob
Dec 31, 2019
6
0
From what I understood from the old C4 thread, the concept was to enable the smallest 240mm AIO/ full custom water cooled case possible.

In comment #79 , this appears to be a better compatibility version of the A4.

Whatever the configuration there seems to be a compromise:

120mm height limit for a GPU means that my card (rtx 2070 Zotac mini) doesn't fit in the classical layout (Besides the M1 layout appears to not favor GPU cooling as well as a sandwich layout.). The same for the sapphire versions of the rx5700 and 5700xt, or vega 56, or a lot of GPUs.

If you have one of these GPU in sandwich layout they are 2 slots, meaning, there will be a space between the side panel and the card, and therefor turbulence.

If you go for a custom loop, there are no GPU blocks (that I'm aware) that are both lesser than 120mm in height and 300mm in length.

Continuing with the custom loop I think there will be difficult to align the gpu and cpu water inlets, so that the tubing goes straight and doesn't waste space (besides there is only one radiator exhausting from the bottom).

I read all of the old thread. I impulsively bought a a GPU waterblock when the last layout was revealed. I'm underwhelmed.

I understand how sick of all of this Dan must be.

Conclusion:

I love the new case from the outside (with the power button on the front ), the open space beneath the motherboard tray aligned for GPU exhaust seems like a great idea.

The first batch will probably be sold out, just due to Dan's reputation, but it doesn't solve any specific problem, so I doubt it will be regarded as one of the great.

I speak for myself, but at this point It would be preferable one of those radical experimental concepts of double radiators cases, or something new.

A project like this is must be extremely complicated to coordinate and Dan doesn't need to prove anything. So why compromise?

I don't think this project is for me.

Best wishes, maybe the next one will.
 

Necere

SFF Guru
NCASE
Feb 22, 2015
1,518
2,890
If you have one of these GPU in sandwich layout they are 2 slots, meaning, there will be a space between the side panel and the card, and therefor turbulence.
A small correction: the closer the fans are to the side panel vents, the more turbulence (and therefore noise) you get. You want some gap between the GPU and side panel.
 

dss

Case Bender
Feb 8, 2020
2
1
Looking forward to an officially blessed layout after running my Ncase (v1) like this the past year :) ...

 

Arboreal

Master of Cramming
Silver Supporter
Oct 11, 2015
412
443
Looking forward to an officially blessed layout after running my Ncase (v1) like this the past year :) ...

Inverted drive geometry.... Nice!
I assume it's been worthwhile for running cooler than usual.
 

Karamazov555

Case Bender
Feb 14, 2020
2
4
Just leaving this here:
C4-SFX - Original v1 - 9,85L (128*239*322) / April 2018
C4-SFX - New v? - 10.8L (148*240*315) / February 2020

To this day, the A4 is the smallest case supporting a full size GPU and a "standard" PSU. I wish @dondan kept the same philosophy with the absolute smallest case supporting 240mm standard AIO (and full size GPU).

@dondan I feel that you as a brand lost your way with the current design.
 

newtothegame

Trash Compacter
Sep 1, 2018
36
44
Congrats on bringing the project back to life Dan. Although the design isn't in tune with my aesthetic sensibility, I wish you the best with this endeavour.
 
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dondan

King of Cable Management
Original poster
DAN Cases
Feb 23, 2015
970
3,018
@ckaym & @newtothegame : Thank you for your feedbacks but I made my decission on the layout.

@gteixeira: Why you would put a Zotac Mini card in this case that is made for longer GPUs? For example the "Watercool Heatkiller IV" will fit.

@Karamazov555: I don't think my brand is limited to cases that are the smallest. But if you need it: >>The the C4-SFX is the smallest DTX Case with 240 AIO support.<<
 

dondan

King of Cable Management
Original poster
DAN Cases
Feb 23, 2015
970
3,018


In this survey I like to know what front I/O and top panel vent design you like to have on the final product. This survey will be available one week. After this week I will start prototyping this product.

Thank you for your time and help!

 
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gasmeone

What's an ITX?
Feb 16, 2020
1
0
Hey @dondan , so in this case i'm in too 😇. but i think we need something like a little cable cover underneath the power supply.

I always imagined the case with water cooling, but if the air cooling variant would be sufficient for something like a ryzen 3900x or 3700x, it would also be okay.
But would it be possible to put the motherboard in front of it to put a radiator behind it? then you would have to work with riser cable again but the radiator could take in fresh air from the side and the graphics card from below but it would probably upset the whole concept again mhh.

nevertheless, i like the current design and, unlike most others, i don't think the front io is a bad idea either, the render image looks almost perfect.

I also wonder whether the graphics card can still draw enough air from below or whether it would be an advantage to gain a little more height there, because in my BEQUIET! -case I unfortunately notice that the airfolw suffers from the design. But I can also be wrong and it doesn't matter in this case..

keep up the fantastic work!
 

dondan

King of Cable Management
Original poster
DAN Cases
Feb 23, 2015
970
3,018
@gasmeone: Sorry but your layout idea with radiator on back of motherboard requires heavy changes to the design so this is not possible. For the GPU question: You can rotate the case so the GPU can pull fresh air from the top side.

Here is a comparison of i/o on front vs on top:



While the i/o and power less front looks very clean it also looks a bit of boring?
 
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