DAN C4-SFX - old

[teajanky]

hello dondan, i am joining the discussion because you asked. I have never build in an sff case before, I do not compare the potential C4 with the A4, M1 or others because i have never seen those in real life. For me the change in size doesn't matter, it will be favorable against my current midtower anyway. I don't have anything against the flex option, that said i would choose the sandwich design for various reasons. I want to watercool with an AIO, and I am convinced that the initial design, allows for good exchange of the air that is otherwise traped inside the case, is part of the feature. If there is also an option for something different, that does not bother me in the slightest. 149 mm is also okay with me.

BUT, i agree with @Bonusround in the question: why do we even need the flex? You said yourself that 3 slot cards are not really necessary, and as previously mentioned, if the case gets that big (149 mm) we are really close to just have 3 slot in the sandwich orientation. The only tangible addition would be much improved aircooling support, but only as a tradeoff for probably worse overall cooling for cpu and gpu, even with the gpu ontop/flipped layout. (3.5 HDD left out till further confirmed)

The main questions for the flex design should then be:
- Is it okay/necessary to increase the case size?
- Do we need better aircooling support?
- Is the flex really the best use of space in an already 149mm case vs. just having a slightly deeper 3 slot capable sandwich?

I think the important question really is, are the gains from flexing to classic actually interesting for a big enough group to warrant the extra effort and possible downsides (more work/time to get to a final product?, some might abandon the project for various reasons). Once again the flex doesn't bother me but i will not use it either.

(I'm happy that we don't think about dual rads atm tho that was a little over my head for a first timer)

 

[Quick99]

The best selling itx case on newegg is the Fractal Design Node 202. It does not support 3 slot cards. It supports 2.5 slot cards only if you use 15mm fans. In fact, none of the top 10 best selling itx cases on newegg support 3 slot GPUs.

So the people that are arguing that you need to support 2.75 & 3 slot GPUs or you won't have a big enough market are just flat out wrong.

 

[dondan]

The best selling itx case on newegg is the Fractal Design Node 202. It does not support 3 slot cards. It supports 2.5 slot cards only if you use 15mm fans. In fact, none of the top 10 best selling itx cases on newegg support 3 slot GPUs.

Sorry but I think this is not true. Currently there is no case with the same size/look/price of the Node 202 that supports also 3 Slot. If there is no alternative how do you can say a 3 slot version would be less popular? Furthermore many popular cases on Newegg are "die stamped" + plastic cases that are very well priced. I think they reflict a different target audience.

If I look on selling numbers only I should make a case for GTX 1060/1050 RTX2060 only because these are the most selling products. But I create a enthusiast case with a volume/performance/cooling ratio that is better of any case on the top 10 newegg list.

 

[dondan]

- Is the flex really the best use of space in an already 149mm case vs. just having a slightly deeper 3 slot capable sandwich?

I only give you an detailed answer on your last question because the first and second question I will answer with an yes.

Here is the minimum size of each layout (pure hardware only) without adding keep out zones, cable routing ways, hdd drive space, case metal thickness, s.o:

sandwich: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 120*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.4L
sandwich: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO: 125*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.75L
sandwich: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO: 130*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9,1L
sandwich: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 135*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9.45L

classic hw layout: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*200*303 (W*H*L)= 8.2L
classic hw layout: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*210*303 (W*H*L)= 8.6L
classic hw layout: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*215*303 (W*H*L)= 8,8L
classic hw layout: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*220*303 (W*H*L)= 9L

 

[talkion]

I only give you an detailed answer on your last question because the first and second question I will answer with an yes.

Here is the minimum size of each layout (pure hardware only) without adding keep out zones, cable routing ways, hdd drive space, case metal thickness, s.o:

sandwich: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 120*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.4L
sandwich: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO: 125*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.75L
sandwich: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO: 130*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9,1L
sandwich: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 135*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9.45L

classic hw layout: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*200*303 (W*H*L)= 8.2L
classic hw layout: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*210*303 (W*H*L)= 8.6L
classic hw layout: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*215*303 (W*H*L)= 8,8L
classic hw layout: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*220*303 (W*H*L)= 9L

Of course, for what it's worth, the sandwich layout supports substantially taller GPUs, right?

 

[teajanky]

I only give you an detailed answer on your last question because the first and second question I will answer with an yes.

Here is the minimum size of each layout (pure hardware only) without adding keep out zones, cable routing ways, hdd drive space, case metal thickness, s.o:

sandwich: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 120*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.4L
sandwich: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO: 125*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.75L
sandwich: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO: 130*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9,1L
sandwich: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 135*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9.45L

classic hw layout: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*200*303 (W*H*L)= 8.2L
classic hw layout: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*210*303 (W*H*L)= 8.6L
classic hw layout: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*215*303 (W*H*L)= 8,8L
classic hw layout: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*220*303 (W*H*L)= 9L

Thank you, now I understand your point better. I am for the flex anyway since I think the idea is exiting, even if I am going to use the sandwich for sure. I would also prefer a slightly larger cases with better cable management. I'm looking forward to the new renders. I feel we are a step closer to a viable product.

 

[Sean Crees]

@dondan I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask this. But i remember when you were first designing the A4-SFX, and you had multiple versions of the A4, and you decided to go with the SFX version first. Is there any plans, perhaps after the C4-SFX is done, to make a shorter A4, utilizing a separated AC/DC and DC/DC power adapters like the ones from HDPLEX?

 

[DKsystem]

Would the flex 149mm version accomodate a 92mm fan at the back?looks like its a super tight fit if it can.

 

[Rankless]

I only give you an detailed answer on your last question because the first and second question I will answer with an yes.

Here is the minimum size of each layout (pure hardware only) without adding keep out zones, cable routing ways, hdd drive space, case metal thickness, s.o:

sandwich: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 120*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.4L
sandwich: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO: 125*230*303 (W*H*L)= 8.75L
sandwich: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO: 130*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9,1L
sandwich: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO: 135*230*303 (W*H*L)= 9.45L

classic hw layout: 2.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*200*303 (W*H*L)= 8.2L
classic hw layout: 2.5 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*210*303 (W*H*L)= 8.6L
classic hw layout: 2.75 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*215*303 (W*H*L)= 8,8L
classic hw layout: 3.0 Slot, 240 AIO, PCIe Power Bridge: 135*220*303 (W*H*L)= 9L

Could you help me understand why the sandwich layout is necessarily taller than the classic layout? Is the height given for the classic layout assuming the radiator would be placed vertically, across from the motherboard like the NCase M1? Wasn't part of the idea that the flex would support both hardware layouts, so it too would support a radiator horizontally bellow the motherboard?

If that is the case, doesn't that make the minimum hardware proportions 135*230*303 for all the classic layouts for a grand total of 9.4L for all configurations? Seeing as the flex would need to be at least as tall as the sandwich to support a horizontal radiator?

 

[Wyd4]

The best selling itx case on newegg is the Fractal Design Node 202. It does not support 3 slot cards. It supports 2.5 slot cards only if you use 15mm fans. In fact, none of the top 10 best selling itx cases on newegg support 3 slot GPUs.

So the people that are arguing that you need to support 2.75 & 3 slot GPUs or you won't have a big enough market are just flat out wrong.

Disagree.
While the most popular SFF cases out there may not support 2.75/3slot cards, until the inception of the 20 series cards from Nvidia, 3 slot cards were the exception to the rule, with only the highest end cards having the bigger coolers. With the current series of cards, 2.75 is the norm. Given the release of this case being in the future, I think it would be prudent to at least have the option.

Particularly in a case that can house a full length card.

 

[t_sale]

@dondan would you consider parting with one of the original prototypes of this case? I know there may be concerns over cable management and the like but I am dying to try a SFF build and the originals look incredible to my eye.

 

[nickl]

@dondan would you consider parting with one of the original prototypes of this case? I know there may be concerns over cable management and the like but I am dying to try a SFF build and the originals look incredible to my eye.

Like you, I'm essentially waiting for this case to build in. Luckily I'm also waiting for Zen 2 so there is some time for Dan to finalize the C4. You can't rush greatness! (Just hopefully in time for the new Ryzens)

 

[FoskcoRS5]

@dondan would you consider parting with one of the original prototypes of this case? I know there may be concerns over cable management and the like but I am dying to try a SFF build and the originals look incredible to my eye.

I'm curious how much a prototype would go for if auctioned...

 

[Bonusround]

It seems disrespectful of Dan and his case development efforts to ask that he sell a prototype, especially given the nature of recent discussion here. If he wants to offer one up for auction, we should Iet him do so on his own accord.

 

[Nanook]

There are many reasons to hang on to older prototypes....

1. Practical: used for ongoing development and continuous improvements
2. Intangible: sentimental value, and reminder of important developmental milestone
3. Economical: prototypes are extremely expensive, and no one would actually pay the cost of one. One-off prototype cost + development time invested = $$$$

 

[muSashi]

Would the flex 149mm version accomodate a 92mm fan at the back?looks like its a super tight fit if it can.

It should be able to, if not, that is something Dan should work on! Atleast 80mm version.

 

[Nanook]

It should be able to, if not, that is something Dan should work on! Atleast 80mm version.

It could probably fit a 80/92 fan if the gfx card is in the horizontal position.

 

[giraffesinmybalcony]

 

[schn1tt3r]

Here we go again... people now asking for this SFF case to make some space for more fans, 3.5 HDD, and add some DVD ROM and floppy disks while you are at it

 

[Bonusround]

That EVGA 1660 Ti is ridiculous, the chode of video cards. And only one fan, geesh.

What are the manufacturers doing here? With the de-emphasis of multi-card rigs, it's like they feel a need to colonize all remaining real estate.

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