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DAN C4-SFX - old
- Thread starter dondan
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Page 94 was the best version of it for those who want a real SFF case and not trying to fit their 3 slot cards to places where they shouldn't.
Case still looks great, just more fat, for now...
First of all, none of the changes are final and my recollection is as faulty as anyone else's.
Currently Dan has expressed interest in increasing case width to 149mm (or 140mm with a right angle power adapter) in order to create a design that enables both vertical and horizontal GPU mounting. None of the current designs are under 10L as far as i'm aware. The design that was sub 10L required 15mm fans if I recall correctly.
He is working on renders for both this new "flex" design and a modification of the original design similar to what was showed on page 94. He also expressed interest in bringing both forward to prototype. Based on Dan's generally negative reactions to folks who aren't happy about the design changes, it seems very likely that it will be the larger design that moves to production.
Those numbers are VERY misleading.
First, all those are not the case volumes, just a very simple calculation of the minimum hardware that will need to be encapsulated. I.E. the width is the height of a graphics card, the height is the the length of an ITX mother board etc. Second, the classic layout is not the same as the flex. The classic design does not support both orientations.
I’m really looking forward to the larger size and having room for my IDE cables.
this. a case built to be really sff should have it's limits.
but while we're at it, can we get some space to put a 5,25'' floppy drive in there, please?
Reup:
Maybe I have a crazy idea. What whould you say if I make everything possible. This means C4 sandwich layout + classic Layout in one case, support for all GPUs up to 3 Slot in classic layout and 2,75 Slot for sandwich layout. Support für big heatsinks like Noctua C14 or U9S and 240 AIOs. This case would have a size of (149 (W) x 237,5 x (H) x 310 (L) = 11L. It would be a exteme flexible case.
~11L is estimatet on the flex design. Dont think there has been changes beyond that for now.
@Belsvik: You are right, I work on this:
I am interested in two sizes:
(149 (W) x 237,5 x (H) x 310 (L) = 11L
Classis: GPU = 3 Slot, AIO = 240x30 + 25mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
Sandwich: GPU = 2.75 Slot, AIO = 240x27 + 25mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
or
(141 (W) x 230 x (H) x 310 (L) = 10L
Classis: GPU = 3 Slot, AIO = 240x30 + 25mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
Sandwich: GPU = 2.5 Slot, AIO = 240x30 + 15mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
@dapperlilsailor:
Maybe I have a crazy idea. What whould you say if I make everything possible. This means C4 sandwich layout + classic Layout in one case, support for all GPUs up to 3 Slot in classic layout and 2,75 Slot for sandwich layout. Support für big heatsinks like Noctua C14 or U9S and 240 AIOs. This case would have a size of (149 (W) x 237,5 x (H) x 310 (L) = 11L. It would be a exteme flexible case.
I am interested in two sizes:
(149 (W) x 237,5 x (H) x 310 (L) = 11L
Classis: GPU = 3 Slot, AIO = 240x30 + 25mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
Sandwich: GPU = 2.75 Slot, AIO = 240x27 + 25mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
or
(141 (W) x 230 x (H) x 310 (L) = 10L
Classis: GPU = 3 Slot, AIO = 240x30 + 25mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
Sandwich: GPU = 2.5 Slot, AIO = 240x30 + 15mm fan, 2x 2.5" drives
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About the discussion on the size and options.
I really love my A4 v2, because it is very small (7.2 L, ultra-compact), the aesthetics are very appealing to me and I am still able to put in very capable hardware.
For me the biggest limitation are the GPU 2 slot height limit and the CPU cooler height limit.
The temperature in the A4 is not optimal, but acceptable for me. I first had ASETEK 545LC in, but I just replaced this with an LP53 because my new GPU was too long and collided with the AiO tubes. Putting in the 545LC was a challenge - I spent hours figuring out how to fit in everything, in which order etc - but this process was a lot of fun. (I had considered putting in a Black Ridge, but that cooler does collide with my RAM and board VRM.)
My next step will be lapping the CPU and LP53 to improve temperatures.
The point I want to make.
What are the design objectives, I think these need to made clear?
I really love my A4 v2, because it is very small (7.2 L, ultra-compact), the aesthetics are very appealing to me and I am still able to put in very capable hardware.
For me the biggest limitation are the GPU 2 slot height limit and the CPU cooler height limit.
The temperature in the A4 is not optimal, but acceptable for me. I first had ASETEK 545LC in, but I just replaced this with an LP53 because my new GPU was too long and collided with the AiO tubes. Putting in the 545LC was a challenge - I spent hours figuring out how to fit in everything, in which order etc - but this process was a lot of fun. (I had considered putting in a Black Ridge, but that cooler does collide with my RAM and board VRM.)
My next step will be lapping the CPU and LP53 to improve temperatures.
The point I want to make.
- I like the A4 because it is small, really small, only 7.2 litres and it can be a full desktop PC
- I like that I must think and tinker with the setup too make it work - too figure out what works.
- The original C4 design (first post) is 9.85 litres - That is ~37% more volume than the A4, with the benefit of a better cooling solution for either CPU or GPU or both. This may be acceptable for me.
- I really would like to see a C4 (all variants) vs A4 size comparison.
- I don’t need big HDDs - I am fine with 2.5" SSDs.
- The small size, fine tuning and tinkering makes the case so special and attractive for me.
- I remember a lot of reviews that mentioned how hard it was to get everything in, but they also mentioned how good everything worked in the end, once it was in.
What are the design objectives, I think these need to made clear?
- Is good cooling an objective - if yes, how? What are the options or option combinations?
- What is the max recommended hardware (in terms of TDP versus noise)?
- Is a small size an objective? If yes, what are the boundaries?
- Is aesthetic an objective?
- I somewhere read that the power cable routing in the original C4 design is a problem Dan mentioned. Dan, can you share pictures to make the community understand this issue? I think this was the main reason to partially scrap the original design.
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The 10L version requires special PCIE power connectors right? I thought that version also has a height of 237.5 like the 11L version?
Think about this from the perspective of those who have been excited to build an original "sandwich" style case:
The smaller 141mm in width design, the one most likely to appeal to us, no longer supports 25mm fans for the AIO. We are getting a design compromise to permit the classic layout that doesn't give us anything beneficial for the change. Yes, others might get something, but the folks who gave been excited for nearly a year to build the sort of PC's you originally proposed are receiving a product with no upsides for the increase in size. In fact, our cooling performance is diminished. Can you see why we might be disappointed?
You may as well as forget this layout entirely if the compromise is the damn AIO cooling.
Could not agree more. If the case offers the classic GPU layout it should only offer the classic GPU layout, so that all aspects of the design (airflow, aesthetics, window panels, etc.) can be optimized around that classic layout.
It will no longer be the original C4, sadly. But for what it does become, it will ultimately be better.
Woah this is still alive! 
Hope your kid is well @dondan
I see there is still a lot of back and forth eh? Do keep up the good work even if it's3 steps forward then 2 steps back
I'll check back in 2 months or so. Don't stress too much everyone, enjoy some sunshine instead!
Hope your kid is well @dondan
I see there is still a lot of back and forth eh? Do keep up the good work even if it's3 steps forward then 2 steps back
I'll check back in 2 months or so. Don't stress too much everyone, enjoy some sunshine instead!
Great first post. You ask some good questions, cour.
Allow me to use your last one – power cable routing – to brainstorm+rant (or rant and then brainstorm) a bit. I think SFF power supplies are among the weakest and most subtly frustrating elements of SFF builds.
Just consider how much better life would be if:
1. We didn't have to deal with the IEC power cable in its C13 form. Look how much space the A4 wastes above the PSU just to provide clearance for a bulky IEC. The orientation of that socket isn't even standardized, which has made cases like the CirclePro adopt an odd and wasteful workaround.
2. Modular cabling was actually a win. It seemed beneficial at first, and it can be aesthetically, but from a space standpoint I think it's a loss. In upgrading my A4 from a Silverstone 450 SFX (non-modular) to a Corsair 600 SFX I found the modular sockets to consume waaaay more volume coming off the PSU than a single-point-of-exit cable bundle ever did. I can be creative and route/hide the extra bundled cables, but there's no hiding those ridiculous giant plastic sockets.
This is especially damning on the A4 if you value the precious under-PSU volume for a 92mm AIO and hope to maximize the clearance and airflow.
3. What if: SFX PSUs were offered in multiple orientations? Imagine keeping the same dimensions but offering variations as to which sides house the intake+fan, exhaust, cables, and (maybe) mounting screws. Imagine the creative, or at least better-optimized, layouts this could enable.
Would PSU makers ever do such a thing? Maybe not. Unless... a few variations were settled upon, and they could charge higher prices for these varieties, given the generally more expensive 'boutique' SFF builds which would benefit from such designs.
Oh well, a boy can dream...
That's all, thanks for letting me vent/share. Now back to your regularly-scheduled C4 discussion.
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