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DAN C4-SFX - old
- Thread starter dondan
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I increased the height ~5mm to have more space between mb and radiator chamber for better routing PSU 8pin power cable and fan pwm cable and yes you are right I added a PSU shroud. But I think all this will not help to handle the new Corsair SFX Platinum cables. They take more space than the Corsair SFX Gold ones.
A bigger GPU means less space between mb and GPU. With a 2.5 Slot card it will be impossible to install custom loops or AIOs like the NZXT X52. Also you can't hide cables between PSU and GPU on a 2.5 Slot card because it is very close to the PSU.
Maybe you interested in these values for the flexible design.
It shows the impact of the height on the GPU size for the classic hardware layout and radiator chamber for the sandwich layout. (the color background has no quality rating it highlight just the GPU slot class)
Keep in mind these values are only for GPU (classis hw layout) and radiator+fan zone (sandwich layout).
The radiator+fan/heatsink zone (classic hw layout) and GPU zone (sandwich layout) depends not on the height. So also on the 9,4L size it will support C14S and 240 AIO for the classic hw layout.
It shows the impact of the height on the GPU size for the classic hardware layout and radiator chamber for the sandwich layout. (the color background has no quality rating it highlight just the GPU slot class)
Keep in mind these values are only for GPU (classis hw layout) and radiator+fan zone (sandwich layout).
The radiator+fan/heatsink zone (classic hw layout) and GPU zone (sandwich layout) depends not on the height. So also on the 9,4L size it will support C14S and 240 AIO for the classic hw layout.
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Speaking of "flexible design", is there any chance to get a 3-Slot matx Board in there? I saw several Boards with 4x DDR4 Slots and three PCIe Slots like here:
https://hardforum.com/threads/3-slot-matx-motherboard-in-ncase-m1.1812629/page-3#post-1042855605
Maybe there is a chance to rotate the SFX power supply so there is more room for a board like that. I think the M1 fits these ones since version 3. At least you can put some standoffs for us in there and we can buy an extra SFX bracket like in the ncase.
https://hardforum.com/threads/3-slot-matx-motherboard-in-ncase-m1.1812629/page-3#post-1042855605
Maybe there is a chance to rotate the SFX power supply so there is more room for a board like that. I think the M1 fits these ones since version 3. At least you can put some standoffs for us in there and we can buy an extra SFX bracket like in the ncase.
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What is the size? The height must be under 224mm.
Btw: Nice to see some Hwluxx guys here
Btw: Nice to see some Hwluxx guys here
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Looking at the beginning of the '3 Slot matx in NCase M1' thread on [H], it looks like the maximum board size is 173x226mm with an SFX power supply in its standard position. I believe that wider boards will fit ~183mm if the SFX PSU is relocated onto an adapted ATX power supply bracket at the front of the M1.
This would be 'ITX' width (2 DIMM slots) and 'ITX+ 2 extra slots' high.
As mentioned, there are a swathe of 'intermediate' so called mATX boards that vary from 173x191mm (ITX + 1 extra slot e.g. .) up to 244 x 226mm; a 'narrow' 4 slot mATX board like my Asus Prime B250M Plus for example.
Most of these boards are low end inexpensive boards with the entry level (H81/H110 etc.) chipsets and usually lacking in decent sound codecs and features like M.2 support etc.
I have followed this thread for some time, and not seen anything convincing that would make me replace a decent spec ITX board (Asus Impact or Strix 'i' Gaming etc.). cards in a lower slot will interfere with bottom fans and a decent board will have WiFi and good sound, so no add in cards required.
I think that trying to accommodate these is getting into murky waters...
**Edit** I forgot this absolutely mad mATX build - The strange and epic Maximus XI Gene motherboard
This would be 'ITX' width (2 DIMM slots) and 'ITX+ 2 extra slots' high.
As mentioned, there are a swathe of 'intermediate' so called mATX boards that vary from 173x191mm (ITX + 1 extra slot e.g. .) up to 244 x 226mm; a 'narrow' 4 slot mATX board like my Asus Prime B250M Plus for example.
Most of these boards are low end inexpensive boards with the entry level (H81/H110 etc.) chipsets and usually lacking in decent sound codecs and features like M.2 support etc.
I have followed this thread for some time, and not seen anything convincing that would make me replace a decent spec ITX board (Asus Impact or Strix 'i' Gaming etc.). cards in a lower slot will interfere with bottom fans and a decent board will have WiFi and good sound, so no add in cards required.
I think that trying to accommodate these is getting into murky waters...
**Edit** I forgot this absolutely mad mATX build - The strange and epic Maximus XI Gene motherboard
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Ok the one I found is 226mm. Maybe there is coming another one under 224mm. https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z370M-DS3H-rev-10#sp
Two things are:
4x DDR4 up to 64 GB Ram, (4 x 16gb Dimms are way cheaper than 2x 32GB DDR4)
Video Capture Cards
Maybe there are more for people who work and travel with their machines.That case is not just for todays Rig you have at home. Maybe future things coming up you might need.
And its always a point on the pro side if you can say "matx with max size 224 x 193 mm".
Hello back from HLuxx and CB @ Dondan
Two things are:
4x DDR4 up to 64 GB Ram, (4 x 16gb Dimms are way cheaper than 2x 32GB DDR4)
Video Capture Cards
Maybe there are more for people who work and travel with their machines.That case is not just for todays Rig you have at home. Maybe future things coming up you might need.
And its always a point on the pro side if you can say "matx with max size 224 x 193 mm".
Hello back from HLuxx and CB @ Dondan
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honestly 3 slot card support would be great, i'm in a country where there's not a lot of options for gpu. for the 2080ti there's no FE here. so to find 2 slot card i have to either get evga or asus turbo which all around $1850, $450 more expensive than the cheapest 2080ti (zotac). and even if you want to buy the 2 slot ones, it's usually not in stock.
so yeah, more flexibility are great especially in a country like here where there are not a lot of options.
about 3.5" hdd, i don't really care about it. 2 stick of 1tb nvme is enough for me.
so yeah, more flexibility are great especially in a country like here where there are not a lot of options.
about 3.5" hdd, i don't really care about it. 2 stick of 1tb nvme is enough for me.
Why don't you use this GPU instead? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487418
Still a 2080ti, but now you don't need the case to be any larger.
According to @dondan's own RTX 2080/ti research, 48% of the cards on the market are 2.75-3 slot cards. Leaving a pretty significant portion of the market out of the question for a 2-2.5 slot layout.
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My opinion is that the fully flexible 11L layout would solve everyone's concerns without adding any significant real world physical difference in size and maintaining that market niche between the 7.25L A4-SFX and the12.6L M1. Has anyone actually made an effort to visualize 1L on a 10+L case? It really isn't going to affect ANYONE. it's just boiled down to a philosophic debate between peoples definition of required hardware in an SFF case.
Does anyone invested in this project with full intentions of purchasing this case consider alternative layout options and 1 more liter a deal breaker? It seems like people are putting too much weight into their personal feelings on OTHER people's needs and desires in an SFF case, and not enough into what would be a sound business decision for a small case builder to accommodate a large enough audience's needs to cover manufacturing costs + business overhead.
The obvious argument is "where does compromise on size end?" and to that, I would say when it becomes physically indistinguishable from the M1's size. Ie +11-11.5L.
Edit:
My opinion is that the fully flexible 11L layout would solve everyone's concerns without adding any significant real world physical difference in size and maintaining that market niche between the 7.25L A4-SFX and the12.6L M1. Has anyone actually made an effort to visualize 1L on a 10+L case? It really isn't going to affect ANYONE. it's just boiled down to a philosophic debate between peoples definition of required hardware in an SFF case.
Does anyone invested in this project with full intentions of purchasing this case consider alternative layout options and 1 more liter a deal breaker? It seems like people are putting too much weight into their personal feelings on OTHER people's needs and desires in an SFF case, and not enough into what would be a sound business decision for a small case builder to accommodate a large enough audience's needs to cover manufacturing costs + business overhead.
The obvious argument is "where does compromise on size end?" and to that, I would say when it becomes physically indistinguishable from the M1's size. Ie +11-11.5L.
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I think I have made it perfectly clear that I consider the increase a complete deal breaker, yes. I and quite a few others.
Of course we're not going to care too much about the business side - that doesn't do anything for me. I want a case that works for me, just as you do. I'll argue for that until the cows come home.
Evidently, Dan doesn't seem to care too much about that as he says he likes both layouts. Ultimately it'll come down to what a survey says and whether or not it is actually feasible when he attempts to have it built. I'm just a bit miffed that my guaranteed plans to get this case went up in smoke because now it's probably not gonna happen based on my gut feeling.
Of course we're not going to care too much about the business side - that doesn't do anything for me. I want a case that works for me, just as you do. I'll argue for that until the cows come home.
Evidently, Dan doesn't seem to care too much about that as he says he likes both layouts. Ultimately it'll come down to what a survey says and whether or not it is actually feasible when he attempts to have it built. I'm just a bit miffed that my guaranteed plans to get this case went up in smoke because now it's probably not gonna happen based on my gut feeling.
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To solve this, could you make the case a bit taller to make cable routing even easier? No more than 3-5mm. to me, taller >>>>> wider. Also I am still of the belief that 2 slot is perfectly adequate in this type of SFF enclosure.
With people being interested in mATX support now, maybe the C4-flex could become a different case aimed at mATX with 3.5" support in a slightly bigger size category, bigger radiator support, etc.
here it cost almost 500$ more than the zotac one. so yeah, 30% more for something that "Still a 2080ti"
Sometimes you gotta pay extra for SFF gear. I mean your already dropping over a grand on a GPU, you must be able to afford an alternative that will fit into a small case. If you can't afford a 2080ti that fits inside a SFF case, maybe drop down to a 2080, or buy a bigger case that will fit any GPU you want.
Alright @dondan , thanks for the clarification, things do make sense.
Actually, I was wondering if the (inevitable) size increase could possibly bring back some of the original ideas. As you may know, I've never been a huge fan of top I/O, if the flexible layout could mean the return of side I/O, it would also make many people happy I think. Wouldn't it be an acceptable compromize?
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If you don't care about the extra liter, just go up 1.6L more and get the M1...
Originally the C4-SFX was billed as an A4 that supports water cooled CPUs, since the biggest drawback of the A4 was that you were really CPU limited because of the cooling options. The C4 could remedy that issue while still staying totally minimum size.
I hope the C4 stays true to the idea of a water cooled A4. If you want a slightly more flexible case the M1 is a great choice, and maybe Dan can release a new case that improves on the design of the M1 sometime in the future.
This is wrong. Even if 48% of the cards were 3 slots, that doesn't mean that those 48% of people are interested in SFF cases. Anyone interested in SFF should already have "compromise" in mind. If people want huge GPU, then they should get ATX cases. Instead, the one compromising here is the SFF case creator just so it is mass appealing. In all honesty, trying to make it mass appealing is basically going to alienate people like me who just wanted original design or the one on page 94.
It's like wanting a Ferrari, but since you have a barn, you want it also to be good on dirt roads...
My 2 cents is that the flexible design doesn't look any worse. It is close to the "golden ratio"; 237.5/149 = ~1.59; whether there is any merit to the ratio is another discussion.
I didn't like the increase in size either until I heard the I would be difficult to manage a custom loop in the original design; at that point I am sold on the flex.
I didn't like the increase in size either until I heard the I would be difficult to manage a custom loop in the original design; at that point I am sold on the flex.
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