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DAN C4-SFX - old
- Thread starter dondan
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For anyone who's interested, here's a video from Optimum Tech comparing Ghost S1 Tophat to Ncase M1. Ghost S1 with top hat as in the video is:
140*245*322 Volume: 11.04L
Ncase M1 is: 160*240*328 Volume: 12.6L
Currently the relevant designs are:
C4-SFX - original v1
- 1. post of this thread = 9,85L (128*239*322) / April 2018
- optimized for better cable management und screw less side panel mounting = 10.4L (130*247*323) /January 2019
C4-SFX - flexible1
- supporting classic and sandwich layout, fits normal PCIe power cables = 11L (149*237,5*310) / January 2019
- supporting classic and sandwich layout, includes spec. PCIe Low Profile power cables = 10,3L (140*237,5*310) / January 2019
Dan never released them, he only mentioned what they were in post 1989 at that time. At that time, nearly 80% of respondents wanted 2 or 2.5 slots, which the original design accommodated.
IIRC, while there was space for 2.5 and even 2.75 with the 130mm width design, Dondan made the choice to only support 2 slots because he would only have to ship 1 hard riser and because there weren't many 2.5 slot RTX cards and 2.75 was too close for people to use the kraken AIO coolers (although other AIOs would still fit if the pump heads were shorter).
I wouldn't have an issue with the 130mm width design if it kept support for the thicker GPUs, even if that required several hard risers.
@I will release the result of the survey next week. This weekend was full of work because the SFFLab guys visit me here in Germany.
@Also next week i plan to show you the comparison of the flexible C4-SFX vs the classic one.
@Also next week i plan to show you the comparison of the flexible C4-SFX vs the classic one.
Here: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/dan-c4-sfx.3345/page-99#post-133966
Note it doesn't contain the flex layout as Dan thought about that AFTER creating the poll.
I agree with this. SSD drives are getting so cheap there is no use for those prone to failure prehistoric drives anymore. I rather have an external USB drive for storing large files than spinning 3.5 drives.I am not a big fan of 3.5" drives but I think there will be space to fit mountpoints for it
I don't understand why people come in a thread where they see it's all about making the product as compact as possible and then asking "hey can we fit 3.5 drives, 3 slot video cards, and while you are at it, dual 240 radiators for custom loop" seriously, go buy an ATX and leave SSF alone.
What I want to say is that you leave the original design of this case, the classic of the first page and expand in width to allow more compatibility of gpu's
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@schn1tt3r Couldn't agree more. Seems like all of a sudden a SFF build absolutely needs to have stuff like 3-slots cards and 3.5" drives.
Again, I'm surprised to see radical changes in ideas:
We spent most of 2018 going back and forth on the layout, first the scratching problem, then the push-clips VS screws argument, then the unibody design idea, lastly the the I/O position issue. At every single survey, people seemed to prefer the classic layout, which is your original idea. Why not just try to improve on the classic layout? Personally I think it's still ok if the case is not 100% "perfect" (perfection doesn't exist lol) but hopefully you can improve on v2, v3 and so on.
Again, I'm surprised to see radical changes in ideas:
We spent most of 2018 going back and forth on the layout, first the scratching problem, then the push-clips VS screws argument, then the unibody design idea, lastly the the I/O position issue. At every single survey, people seemed to prefer the classic layout, which is your original idea. Why not just try to improve on the classic layout? Personally I think it's still ok if the case is not 100% "perfect" (perfection doesn't exist lol) but hopefully you can improve on v2, v3 and so on.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but by what standards are SSDs getting “so cheap”? You can buy 6 times the capacity for half the price with normal hard disks. No that’s not an exaggeration, go check prices. And if your hard disks are “prone to failure” then you must be buying some pretty shoddy hard drives. I wouldn’t really call that an opinion saying that. It’s just flat out false. If you don’t like the idea of 3.5” drives that’s fine, but don’t act like everyone should be willing to fork out hundreds of dollars for a single terabyte of storage. And what’s the point of having a SFF case if I’m just going to have all my extra modules stored outside it? Some of use like to have our storage inside the computer so when we travel we don’t have to pack along a NAS or external hard drive.
Just an idea as you mentioned SFFLab.
Maybe once the C4 is finalised, you can talk to SFFLab about offering a discounted price on a Tactik Duffle. Then you can have a "Transporters Kit" which includes the C4-SFX and a WALLYE Tactik Duffle on the Kickstarter campaign.
I think there are quite a few people who are interested in the C4 as they want something that's easy to travel with.
Why would you take the NAS with you? You could just set it up so you could remote VPN in and get your files from anywhere in the world.
Gotta agree that 3.5" drives in an SFF computer should be going the way of the dino. It's just additional room for no benefit other than cost. Modern components (beyond standards) are allowing us to get smaller and smaller but keep high performance. We should be flowing with that trend rather than trying to fight it with archaic technologies.
Also, you speak about being entitled to an opinion, but then ask what the point of SFF is when you offsite your storage - it's simple; a NAS allows the data to be accessed by all computers in a residence easily. As technology gets cheaper and we have more and more devices in our homes, switching to having your data on a NAS is just the more sensible choice.
Why have a bigger case for the sake of storage that only works with that one PC when I could have a shoebox for a case and shove all the data in a closet that can be accessed by every single device in the house?
Your solution, IMO, sounds dinosaur-like in this modern age. I don't believe we should take compromises of the past into designs of today.
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Tephnos goes in a little hard on this, but his point remains valid. If you dont know the wonders of NAS storage yet, I implore you check out some of the cheaper offerings on the market. Mine saved me from loosing nearly 3 weeks of work when a laptop drive failed.
3.5 drives are nearly the same price as 2.5 drives nowadays, and I’d argue that, once they reach high enough capacities, m.2 drives will likely completely overtake all sata-based drives very soon. Either way, between the budget oriented 660p line and the enthusiast level 970 PRO and WD Blacks out now, there is little reason to support more than 1 or 2 2.5 drives in a SFF build
I might be in the minority, but adding support for 3.5" drives doesn't seem like a bad idea if implemented correctly. If it's just drilling holes or adding support for it on a bracket that also supports 2.5" drives, and they don't interfere with anything, then I think that's fine. If it takes up space for something like the GPU or radiator, then that's something that the consumer is going to have to decide if it's worth it or not for them.
I understand the benefits of having a NAS, but I don’t have multiple computers in my house accessing the sort of files I’d need that much storage for. Any documents I need on multiple devices I generally have stored online so I can access them. I’m mostly talking about large programs like games or editing/CAD programs. I want all of that stuff stored locally. I’m not building a powerful rig with the extra cooling of a radiator so I can watch movies or edit word documents from a NAS. So yes, there are situations where a NAS or external hard drive are wonderful, but others where it just doesn’t make sense. And sure you can find 2.5” drives that aren’t SSD that don’t cost a small fortune, but you lose the higher RPM of performance drives offered by the 3.5” form factor. I’d love to totally ditch hard disks for all SSDs, but at this point in time that costs way too much money. Like more than my entire computer costs to get the same amount of storage.
@Metroversal For the classis design i aggree with you the 3.5 drive doesn't make sense because it will not fit, but for the flexible design it will fit without increasing price and size.
On weekend SFFLab and i did some test on the old samples from 2018 and it wasn't fun to build inside. So forgett 2.5 Slot and custom loops on the classic C4 design it is nearly impossible. Also handling psu powercables above the radiator isn't fun. It will work but but you have to manage a lot of cables and need to plan very clever or use custome ones. So for the classic one you are limited to AIO and 2 Slot only.
Think about also the assembly experience is very important. For the A4-SFX with air cooling it is very easy, i think it should be the same for C4.
On weekend SFFLab and i did some test on the old samples from 2018 and it wasn't fun to build inside. So forgett 2.5 Slot and custom loops on the classic C4 design it is nearly impossible. Also handling psu powercables above the radiator isn't fun. It will work but but you have to manage a lot of cables and need to plan very clever or use custome ones. So for the classic one you are limited to AIO and 2 Slot only.
Think about also the assembly experience is very important. For the A4-SFX with air cooling it is very easy, i think it should be the same for C4.
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We had hands-on with the old C4.
For cooling, cable mgmt, reliability, Flexible 1 is the better way to go.
But I want the case in the picture, not the fat one.
:/
My opinion remains unchanged.
:/
My opinion remains unchanged.
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