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DAN C4-SFX - old
- Thread starter dondan
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3.5 inch HDD is not a 'dino', please stop this nonsense. The whole IT industry relies on them. Besides HDDs continue to evolve as much as SSDs and I have really high doubts the form factor of 3.5 will be extinguished completely in a near future.
And this NAS solution I often see mentioning.. Well it's actually is not a bullet proof solution by many factors including relatively high price tags, space occupying, questionable speed transfers and etc.
I agree that SFF should not take compromises for the sake of storing 3.5 drives in a first place but if the final outcome offers extra space that can be used for keeping this 'dinosaurs' inside then I don't see any problems here whatsoever.
Then go and get his prototype when the final C4 is out.
For me, It looks too narrow...
But the Rest is quiet nice.
Hope you enjoyed northern germany, very windy here.
Gimmie dat prototype.
Surely you must realise the fallacy of using the IT industry as an argument for a consumer class product?
If we're going to use that route, we may as well as still be on magnetic tape reels because corporations still use those for backups, right?
No. Of course not. Just say what you really mean, which is that you prefer the cost saving of HDDs.
Edit: Note that I don't disagree that space can be made if the case is already large enough in the first place, but since I'm against that expansion in the first place it is a dead zone for me.
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It'd be one of a kind! Think of all those girls you'd get from the bragging rights.
I don't see how it's a fallacy as consumer market often exist as a collateral 'side' effect of enterprise market(which is usually if not always a prime one).
I'm sorry but this is clearly a distort as this type of tech serves a different purpose compare to a HDD.
Of course I would prefer cost saving for my wallet - why wouldn't I? In terms of price per gigabyte 3.5 is unbeatable.
Two years ago my thoughts were the same actually but having a A4-SFX for a year I started to note the drawbacks of having the case this small.
You're absolutely right that I was using hyperbole to make it obvious how pointless using the IT industry to justify your point was. Nothing more, nothing less. It was unnecessary to push the point you originally wanted to make, which was purely cost.
As for the A4, well, that's a different beast. That one is primarily designed entirely around being as small as possible without entering territory where you'll need to start buying power bricks for PSUs and the like. The C4 on the other hand (the original one), was the best balance between A4 size and NCASE utility.
As for the A4, well, that's a different beast. That one is primarily designed entirely around being as small as possible without entering territory where you'll need to start buying power bricks for PSUs and the like. The C4 on the other hand (the original one), was the best balance between A4 size and NCASE utility.
Let me start by saying that my C4-SFX build is likely to use a 2 slot GPU and a 2.5 inch SSD along with an NVMe SSD for storage, and I find a slimmer case design more pleasing to the eye.
However, I did want to share two options that may be possible with the "fatter" Flexible design, just because I think they're cool.
Option 1: Watercooled GPU and 240mm AiO cooled CPU (without a custom loop)
I recently came across information about a new ASUS ROG Matrix RTX 2080Ti that should be available soon. This is a 3 slot GPU design that integrates a liquid cooler. I'm certain it's going to be way out of my graphics card budget, but if I could afford it then this would be going into my build. More info here: https://rog.asus.com/articles/gamin...-2080-ti-fully-integrates-liquid-gpu-cooling/
I'm guessing a build with this card would probably outperform the Corsair One i160 while still being around 1.5L smaller.
Option 2: SFF Server with RAID 5 or 10 (3.5 inch drives)
If you choose not to install a GPU at all, it should be possible to fit 4x 3.5 inch drives into the same space as a 3 slot GPU. Given that we can currently get 14TB 3.5 inch drives, that's 56TB of storage and the option to use RAID 5 or 10 with a board like the ASRock H370M-ITX. We may even see 16TB drives this year bringing that capacity up to 64TB.
However, I did want to share two options that may be possible with the "fatter" Flexible design, just because I think they're cool.
Option 1: Watercooled GPU and 240mm AiO cooled CPU (without a custom loop)
I recently came across information about a new ASUS ROG Matrix RTX 2080Ti that should be available soon. This is a 3 slot GPU design that integrates a liquid cooler. I'm certain it's going to be way out of my graphics card budget, but if I could afford it then this would be going into my build. More info here: https://rog.asus.com/articles/gamin...-2080-ti-fully-integrates-liquid-gpu-cooling/
I'm guessing a build with this card would probably outperform the Corsair One i160 while still being around 1.5L smaller.
Option 2: SFF Server with RAID 5 or 10 (3.5 inch drives)
If you choose not to install a GPU at all, it should be possible to fit 4x 3.5 inch drives into the same space as a 3 slot GPU. Given that we can currently get 14TB 3.5 inch drives, that's 56TB of storage and the option to use RAID 5 or 10 with a board like the ASRock H370M-ITX. We may even see 16TB drives this year bringing that capacity up to 64TB.
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Really hope you stick with this new flex design 149mm and have support for 305mm video cards, and 3 slot design.. Couldnt care less about 3,5" hdd slot, people should be on SSD/Nvme now a days, and use external HDD.
If people want smaller cases they can always use Dans previously builds. There is a big market for the flex design, and as of now Dan dont have any cases to represent that market share.
Not to be that guy, but I'm gonna be that guy.
I couldn't care less about 3 slot wide cards. People should be using 2-2.5" cards as temps are never the issue they used to be given proper airflow.
Anyway, back to the shadows for me. Good luck with the brawl.
I couldn't care less about 3 slot wide cards. People should be using 2-2.5" cards as temps are never the issue they used to be given proper airflow.
Anyway, back to the shadows for me. Good luck with the brawl.
I can see why people think 2 slot cards are fine. They can keep powerful cards cool enough to not throttle. However, to do this they have to ramp fans up to pretty high rpms, and that’s pretty noisy for a computer that more likely than not is going to sit on your desk right beside you. If the RTX cards had kept the same thermal design as the 1080 generation it probably wouldn’t have been an issue, for instance the 1080ti FTW3 was a great 2 slot design.
Similarly, if it wasn’t for the 9900k, I doubt there would be a real need for 240 AIO support. We would have been fine with 120mm. But here we are. Perhaps 7nm will help, but considering Radeon VII’s power draw and the rumored power draw for Ryzen 3, I don’t think we’ll see much cooler parts.
Similarly, if it wasn’t for the 9900k, I doubt there would be a real need for 240 AIO support. We would have been fine with 120mm. But here we are. Perhaps 7nm will help, but considering Radeon VII’s power draw and the rumored power draw for Ryzen 3, I don’t think we’ll see much cooler parts.
I disagree. It's not about hypothetically jamming enterprise hardware into a consumer box, it's as simple as recognizing that different people have different needs and providing a design flexible enough to accommodate multiple configurations for your client base.
HDDs may be slow, but show me a 16TB SSD, let alone one you'd be willing to pay for.
Yes, for many small businesses and stationary setups, a centralized storage solution is the best route, but these systems are designed to be powerful AND portable. Your NAS is not.
How are you going to travel to a convention and edit a ton of footage if you don't have somewhere to store it? External HDDs come with plenty of drawbacks that having internal storage does not.
Agreed that in a perfect world, >2-slot cards would be unnecessary extravagance, but as @blindphleb stated, that's not what we're looking at in 2019. Between roided out GPU's and higher core CPU's, extra clearance for larger shrouds and airflow are necessary to account for the current industry trends.
Maybe when the industry gets it together on 7nm and the pendulum swings back towards wattage efficiency, we can scale back down. But right now, everyone is pushing their architectures past their original thermal envelope to compete. Meaning bigger coolers and more heat output.
The arguments for keeping HDDs seem to keep boiling down to 'but what if I want to travel?' and I'm gonna be real honest with you - show me good data that more than a single digit % of people on here actually need to regularly transport their case for it to be an issue. It's likely even more of a minority than people who want strict 3 slot support. At that point, I see no use in catering for such a small fraction when it is a detriment to everyone else (IF it increases the case size to accommodate).
I disagree entirely with your points about the GPUs. The NCASE shows why - standard GPU setups end up extremely starved for airflow at the bottom of the case (and is why they are regularly modded), and you end up needing to put the thing on elevated feet in order to knock a significant amount of degrees off of the GPU. Having a vertical setup that intakes fresh air from the side will almost certainly offset that difference entirely without needing to make the case look janky with stilts.
It's not a temperature thing, it's entirely about the fact it will allow you to use the 3 slots. Since the NCASE shows it will likely confer a non-significant temperature benefit due to lack of airflow over a side intake 2-2.5 slot - what's the bloody point?
I disagree entirely with your points about the GPUs. The NCASE shows why - standard GPU setups end up extremely starved for airflow at the bottom of the case (and is why they are regularly modded), and you end up needing to put the thing on elevated feet in order to knock a significant amount of degrees off of the GPU. Having a vertical setup that intakes fresh air from the side will almost certainly offset that difference entirely without needing to make the case look janky with stilts.
It's not a temperature thing, it's entirely about the fact it will allow you to use the 3 slots. Since the NCASE shows it will likely confer a non-significant temperature benefit due to lack of airflow over a side intake 2-2.5 slot - what's the bloody point?
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If y'all REALLY need a big HDD to travel with for your video editing away that's 16tb and you can't afford good SSDs, here's a neat solution for you: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZC303G/?tag=theminutiae-20
Edit: Is it *slightly* less convenient? Yes. Is the use case extremely niche? Very. If you can't get away with a 2tb SSD for day to day use and back up footage later on, I'm not sure what to say. Add to that the fact that 400GB SD cards are selling for $70, there's really no excuse to need a 3.5" bay in the case if it requires a size increase.
There's also the Streacom DA2 that supports triple 3.5" drives with a short GPU.
Edit: Is it *slightly* less convenient? Yes. Is the use case extremely niche? Very. If you can't get away with a 2tb SSD for day to day use and back up footage later on, I'm not sure what to say. Add to that the fact that 400GB SD cards are selling for $70, there's really no excuse to need a 3.5" bay in the case if it requires a size increase.
There's also the Streacom DA2 that supports triple 3.5" drives with a short GPU.
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As someone who does bring their computer to and from school, an also currently using a HDD and a 2-slot GPU in my SG13, I am very much still for the original design and have been looking to upgrade to an SSD to fit in this case specifically. I didn't even consider the air flow restrictions that you mentioned with a bottom oriented GPU and Side mounting still appealed to me much more with a chimney effect reserved for the 240 rad. I have been following this case since about 1 month into this thread and I totally agree that 2-2.5 slots should be the maximum and to keep the original orientation of the components. If the flex design is chosen however, adding holes to mount a HDD in place of a GPU or rad isn't a problem for me, but I would never use it.
@dondan sorry to insist, but what's the point in testing on the old prototype? We all remember it has some little flaws, but then you made a lot of tweaks to improve it and to make the experience somehow better.
For example, on the image below we can clearly see a PSU shroud. Hopefully handling powercables should be less of a problem.
"So for the classic one you are limited to AIO and 2 Slot only"
This statement isn't very clear, would you elaborate please? We've been told that 2.5 slots card could fit on the classic layout (IIRC even 2.7)
Comments about a 3 slot GPU starving for air at the bottom of the case, like the worries about the 240 radiator being at the bottom, constantly forget that this case is designed to flip if you so choose.
Currently, I’m using an accelero in the Ncase which is pretty much a 3 slot design, and I guarantee it’s quieter than any 2 slot design and a lot cooler.
Currently, I’m using an accelero in the Ncase which is pretty much a 3 slot design, and I guarantee it’s quieter than any 2 slot design and a lot cooler.
<sarcasm>
With all this extra space and support for 3.5in HDDs could we get room for 5.25in bays?
</sarcasm>
With all this extra space and support for 3.5in HDDs could we get room for 5.25in bays?
</sarcasm>
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