DAN C4-SFX - old

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papsicleboy

Caliper Novice
Jun 19, 2018
29
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I think nearly every hardware product has features that you not need but you pay for.
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Only for a slim (140mm) version of the flexible design. The 149mm design do not need them.
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What is the point for the classic design considering the Ghost + Top Heads exists? Who said that my case will be more expansive as the M1? BTW: There is no case called NCASE. There is also no burger in this world that is called Mc Donalds.
@dondan
Yes, a lot of hardware products have features that I don't need but pay for anyways. But it makes me not want to buy the product. For example, Dell xps 13 only has a touch screen on the 4k model. I want touch screen but actually would rather not have 4k because of battery life. It's a compromise that I'd be willing to make if it weren't for other high quality ultrabooks (see surface laptop). Similar situation with this case, I really like the aesthetics and concept but now I also have to pay for 3-slot compatibility which, like 4k on the ultrabook, is actually a downside because it makes the case wider and look boxy. IMO the looks of this case are one of its major strong suits so undermining that should be only for something very important - unlike 3 slot compatibility.

Of course there is no perfect product and I understand that, I'll have to compromise somewhere. But when did the compromise become making the case smaller? This is SFF, it should be justifying why to make the case bigger, not the other way around. I don't see a single good reason to go past 2 slot and do classic PC layout.

I think you might have misinterpreted, I said more expensive than the M1, because of the slim power cable and now bead-blasted finish. I was drawing a comparison between the similar layout of the C4 flex and the M1, saying that I would rather just buy an M1 now instead of waiting for a similar case that's more expensive.
Also on the subject of the Ghost S1, I think that with a top hat that case is actually very ugly. It looks better with 2 top hats but at that point I should just buy something else for the price. also you definitely know I mean the NCASE M1. When I say lets get KFC you think of fried chicken just as you think of the M1 when you read NCASE. They are synonymous lol.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
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Feb 23, 2015
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Here is picture that shows the difference between the 140mm and 149mm width flexible design:



For everyone who has a problem to get a feeling for the size I can recommend to take a A4 paper and draw a rectangle with 149x237,5. Than you you cut it out and add a second line with a space of 10mm to the right side. Than you can make a bend on this line and easily switch between both sizes.
 
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Arboreal

Master of Cramming
Silver Supporter
Oct 11, 2015
453
478
@dondan - thank you for keeping us up to date and calming things down. Great work as ever, and I look forward to the C4 working itself out.

I almost can't read this thread at the moment as it's "giving me anxiety" as my daughter would say....
I come to SFFN and Bit-Tech to engage with my hobby of PC building and development, with an interest in the SFF arena.

Recently, it has not been as enjoyable and relaxing on the C4 SFX thread, as it is not a calming escape from the day to day chaos and tribal rantings over Brexit, which is on the news here in the UK at all hours of the day.

I do have my preferences, and have commented on this thread a fair bit over a considerable time; probably not long after it was started, but it is Dan's project at the end of the day, and his investment and risk.

No one has actually committed any of their own money to this yet, so really they do not have a vested interest or a 'dog in the fight'.

I understand the difficulty of positioning a second product in the range with its pressures to succeed and competing requirements, and I will be posting about that later elsewhere.

As @Josh | NFC would say - Peace
 

Hudbox

Cable Smoosher
Oct 3, 2018
8
12
I understand the difficulty of positioning a second product in the range with its pressures to succeed and competing requirements, and I will be posting about that later elsewhere.
Important point.

As enthusiast we all have ideas on what C4 comes to market, but they are personal and not always in the best interests from a business perspective. The custom SFF market is growing with plenty of competing products and for Dondan he needs to be able to differentiate his next product enough that it captures the interest of the enthusiasts to make it to production, this is why I'd imagine the C4 is still evolving.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
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Feb 23, 2015
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For everyone who has a problem to get a feeling for the size I can recommend to take a A4 paper and draw a rectangle with 149x237,5. Than you you cut it out and add a second line with a space of 10mm to the right side. Than you can make a bend on this line and easily switch between both sizes.
Did anybone tested it out?
 
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Kaleidoscope

Efficiency Noob
Jan 16, 2019
5
3
Important point.

As enthusiast we all have ideas on what C4 comes to market, but they are personal and not always in the best interests from a business perspective. The custom SFF market is growing with plenty of competing products and for Dondan he needs to be able to differentiate his next product enough that it captures the interest of the enthusiasts to make it to production, this is why I'd imagine the C4 is still evolving.
I fully agree with this.

For enthusiasts, +/- 0.5L is a big friggin deal.

The average user won't honestly event notice this difference if they are coming from the world of ATX cases. Besides case reviewers will always consider Betters thermals & Compatibility >>> Minute increase in volume. Additionally I guarantee you, unless you have OCPD, after a week or so you would have forgotten that Case A is a little bit larger than Case B.

I think from a business perspective, going for flexibility while not compromising on thermals and component compatibility is the best choice.
 
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Nanook

King of Cable Management
May 23, 2016
805
791
Did anybone tested it out?
9mm is almost imperceptible - especially when the case is sitting on my desk next to my monitor. 149mm is a much more practical width.

I had the Thermaltake G3. It is 146mm in width, and feels impossibly slim. It is probably the slimmest ATX case that holds a 120mm x2 or even a 360mm radiator... it doesn’t allow classic graphic card layout though, and is actually a much larger case. But if 149mm would allow much flexibility for classic video card layout, and more flexibility for popular high end GTX/RTX card. I’m all for it.

Here’s the G3 build, back when I was doing custom loops...
 

FAQBytes

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Feb 22, 2017
91
102
So I will be having to wait to see what actual prototypes wind up looking like.

To me the aspect ratio of the front panel just seems... Off..., while the original seemed fine. I guess the best analogy for me is the uncanny valley, where square box computers are the obviously robots and slim towers human. I guess my subconscious thinks this is a box computer trying really hard to be a slim tower.

I know I've definitely stated my $0.02 before, and don't want to add too much to the drama, so I may just lurk until more renders/prototype.
 
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NIIV3X

Cable Smoosher
Jun 15, 2018
12
8
Did anybone tested it out?
I've made myself a reference out of an A4 piece of paper just now and a width increase to ~150mm I would strongly try to avoid. It would absolutely ruin the aestethics of the case in my opinion as the width/height ratio would near a thick and clunky look instead of the sleek intial design! If I was to answer another survey I'd still go with a max height of 2 slot cards if it kept the width of the case at ~130mm just for the aesthetics sake. The idea of combing both layouts I find attractive as well though and if you deem it a worthy compromise, I personally could live with a case width of ~140mm (Regarding the connector bridge)! Anything larger though and I'd really have to struggle with myself.
I did back then, why do you ask? @dondan
 

Rankless

Trash Compacter
Sep 6, 2018
48
48
My consternation is not simply the increase in volume or the change in aesthetic. It's that it's for a reason that does not excite me. There is a cost benefit analysis in SFF computers, and with that comes a mantra: Is this wasted space? A horizontal GPU in a explicitly water-cooled case seems like waste of space. Not just the extra slot, but also the area around the water-block. Wouldn't a horizontal GPU also necessarily interfere with the remarkable vertical airflow that you drew diagrams of some eighty pages back in this thread?

Everyone has 2-slot cards. The most recent non-flex revision of the case supported 2.5-slot cards. It seemed to me that the C4 was about allowing previously inaccessible hardware in a SFF computer such as a full-fat CPU and 240mm radiator. 3-slot cards are not previously inaccessible hardware. That GPU is available in a smaller package. SFF is about that smaller package.
 

dapperlilsailor

Chassis Packer
Sep 9, 2018
20
25
@dondan I'm concerned about loop routing in the flex version (especially sandwich config) since you will be unable to place the radiator where the out/inlets won't be blocked by either the PSU or hard riser. I've modeled some mockups with the hardware in the about the correct relative positions and getting custom or AIO tubing through there looks VERY difficult.
I like the concept of the flex case, but previous versions that allowed placement of the rad on the opposite side were the closest I've seen to being a DREAM for liquid cooling for a case on this scale.
 

DMAT

Cable Smoosher
Jan 26, 2019
10
4
DonDan, what is the height of the CPU water cooling block + pump area with either of the new designs. The original design had it at 62 mm height a Apogee Drive II is also 62 mm in height. Is it possible to gain 5-10 mm in this area while you are adding width to the case.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
Original poster
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Feb 23, 2015
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@AfterInfinity: Yes. On every GPU location (vrtical or horizontal) you can also mount a radiator.

@dapperlilsailor: I will show that on renderings.

@DMAT:
GPU vertical (case width = 140mm): space above CPU 62mm
GPU vertical (case width = 149mm): space above CPU 71mm
GPU horizontal (case width = 140mm): space above CPU 117mm (- 30mm raditor - 25mm fan) = 62mm
GPU horizontal (case width = 149mm): space above CPU 126mm (- 30mm raditor - 25mm fan) = 71mm
 
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