Stalled Custom_MOD MINI

[Revenant]

If I knew then what I know now about I would have gotten the K. I trusted Intel to be honest about their power and heat and they weren't. There was a $100 price difference when I bought mine. The gap has since closed.

EDIT FOR UPDATE!

I just started doing some serious gaming benchmarks on the system. I played BF1, on Ultra, at 2688x1680 (1920x1200 super sampled by 1.4 times). Graphics card is a MSI Aero ITX 1070. At a rock sold 60 FPS (work monitor doesn't go past 60HZ), I saw the CPU boost to 4.3GHZ on all cores. Temps would spike into the 90s on occasion, but the clocks did not throttle.

For gaming, BF1 at least, seems to be fine when using the L9i.

 

[QuantumBraced]

Thanks for testing. So the thermal throttling was just on synthetic stress tests? Gaming usually only uses 50-70% of the CPU, so you can get away with higher clocks. How's the noise from the L9i, bearable?

Just curious, why are you switching from the A4-SFX to the Mini? Need something smaller?

 

[K888D]

I think it's ridiculous that Intel has designed these CPUs to thermal throttle at the rated TDP.

Not sure I would class not achieving full boost speed as thermal throttling? Running beneath the stock clock I would class as thermal throttling though. After all they are called boost speeds, similar to how current generation Graphics Cards work.

 

[QuantumBraced]

Not sure I would class not achieving full boost speed as thermal throttling? Running beneath the stock clock I would class as thermal throttling though. After all they are called boost speeds, similar to how current generation Graphics Cards work.

I see your point, but Intel CPUs have historically had a guaranteed achievable boost at their rated TDP. The 6700K boosts to 4 GHz on 4 cores out of the box, and at that frequency and stock voltage it consumes around 91W. If you want to increase the boost clock and the TDP, then you can overclock, but stock boost = stock TDP. This is the first time they've strayed from that, hence I consider it thermal throttling. It doesn't matter to the vast majority of people who have at least a Hyper 212 EVO, but people running low profile coolers will be disappointed. Especially those who bought the 8700, intending to use the stock cooler, only to find out their 4.6/4.3 GHz-rated CPU is running at 3.2GHz under heavy load.

I get it why they did it, you can't add 2 more cores and magically keep the same TDP, and when the architecture can clearly tolerate frequencies up to 5 GHz, you don't want to limit the boost clocks to keep within the rated TDP. So really, the consumer wins, because it's better to have the boost clock available rather than have an imposed boost limit to keep within the TDP at full load. But it's false advertising nonetheless. At the current architecture, 6 cores can't run at more than 4GHz to keep under 95W.

I'm not a fan of NVidia's implementation either, I wish they would just let me set the frequency and TJMax and let me worry about cooling.

 

[K888D]

If you want to increase the boost clock and the TDP, then you can overclock, but stock boost = stock TDP.

Has this always been the case though?

Every CPU review I've read/watched over the past couple of years always show power consumption during stress tests to be well above what the CPUs are rated for. Could this be because they are running at boost speeds?

The difference with this generation is we are starting to see a much bigger difference in clock speed between stock and boost, so therefore the power consumption gap between stock and boost is now more noticeable than ever?

 

[Revenant]

In the past, the turbo speeds were achievable with stock cooling. Intel even announced they were changing the way they advertised CPU speeds due to this new philosophy.

 

[Revenant]

Thanks for testing. So the thermal throttling was just on synthetic stress tests? Gaming usually only uses 50-70% of the CPU, so you can get away with higher clocks. How's the noise from the L9i, bearable?

Just curious, why are you switching from the A4-SFX to the Mini? Need something smaller?

Synthetic still throttles. I'm going to see what happens when I do some video editing work soon, and test more games.

I solved the noise issue from the L9i in two ways:

1. With the stock fan, when gaming or at 100% load, I wear headphones.

2. I swapped the fan for a thicker model with the same air flow. In the Dan PC case it fits but not in the Custom Mod. Much, much quieter.

I had always intended to use the Custom Mod case. However, I had video card compatibility issues with the 3.24L original. I've ordered a custom sized 3.5, but it's at least 8 weeks from delivery. So I stuffed it in a Dan PC case I had. I still plan to swap the cases eventually. That Dan PC case will eventually house my 6700K and 980ti system that's on my NCASE M1. I'm waiting for Ice Lake before upgrading that system.

 

[Davila]

@sergiiua Are there any batch #7 updates?

 

[QuantumBraced]

Has this always been the case though?

Every CPU review I've read/watched over the past couple of years always show power consumption during stress tests to be well above what the CPUs are rated for. Could this be because they are running at boost speeds?

The difference with this generation is we are starting to see a much bigger difference in clock speed between stock and boost, so therefore the power consumption gap between stock and boost is now more noticeable than ever?

I think you're right. In the past, you could get a cooler rated for 95W + a CPU rated for 95W and not expect problems. Base and boost clock were not that far apart and surpassing TDP considerably was overclocking territory. Now, ratings are a bit arbitrary. They lowered the base clock considerably just so they could get that 65W rating, but in reality everyone is buying based on boost clock numbers. Who wants to run a $300 CPU at 3.2GHz. They could have lowered the base clock to 2 GHz and called it a 15W CPU, wouldn't have changed anything. But in practice nothing has changed, we just need to adjust our expectations.

 

[QuantumBraced]

sergiiua

I have an idea for a CustomMod case. You take the current 3.5L Mini and you add a basement to it where you can install a 92mm AIO (Asetek 545LC) with an NF A9x14 fan. Dimensions: 102x185x245 for a total volume of 4.6L. You may be able to to fit an SSD at the top of the basement, next to the AIO.

A larger version of the case could be made longer to accommodate the Zotac 1080 Ti Mini and fit a 92mm AIO + 92mm fan or 2.5" drives. That one will have dimensions of 102x225x245 for a total volume of 5.6L.

*Edited after discussion with Necere below.

 

[Necere]

sergiiua

I have an idea for a CustomMod case. You take the current 3.5L Mini and you add a basement to it where you can install a 92mm AIO (Asetek 545LC) with an NF A9x14 fan. And in the extra space you can stack 2.5" drives or put an 80mm fan. Dimensions: 102x185x245 for a total volume of 4.6L. Alternatively, you can install an SFX PSU in the basement!

A larger version of the case could be made longer to accommodate the Zotac 1080 Ti Mini and fit a 92mm AIO + SFX PSU in the basement or even dual 92mm AIOs or any combination of those with a 92mm fan and/or 2.5" drives. That one will have dimensions of 102x225x245 for a total volume of 5.6L.

The 545LC measures 60x92x125mm 35x97x117.5mm (H x W x D, excluding barbs/hoses), so if the basement is 102x185mm (W x D) there wouldn't be enough space for a 2.5 drive (which are 70x100mm). There also wouldn't be space for an SFX PSU (125mm width) if the case stays at only 102mm wide.

 

[QuantumBraced]

The 545LC measures 60x92x125mm (H x W x D, excluding barbs/hoses), so if the basement is 102x185mm (W x D) there wouldn't be enough space for a 2.5 drive (which are 70x100mm). There also wouldn't be space for an SFX PSU (125mm width) if the case stays at only 102mm wide.

Good points, I've clearly never designed a case. I just know that an SFX PSU is 100mm wide. So 105mm perhaps? Hm, but the 545LC's dimensions include the reservoir portion of the AIO which protrudes past the 92mm mount, so maybe you could tuck an SSD under that? Otherwise, you could stack them diagonally, but that would be ugly. Or mount them at the top of the basement where the 92mm fan won't conflict with them.

 

[Necere]

I just know that an SFX PSU is 100mm wide.

A standard SFX PSU is 100mm long, not wide. Width is 125mm. In practice you also have to add the modular power connectors (+20mm minimum) to the length.

Hm, but the 545LC's dimensions include the reservoir portion of the AIO which protrudes past the 92mm mount, so maybe you could tuck an SSD under that?

Not likely, unfortunately. The endtanks are only a couple mm smaller than the rad proper.

Also, if you want to orient the drives across the width of the case, you have to add the SATA power and data cable connectors. Even right angle versions of these are ~10mm, so you have to add that to the 100mm length of the drive.

 

[QuantumBraced]

A standard SFX PSU is 100mm long, not wide. Width is 125mm. In practice you also have to add the modular power connectors (+20mm minimum) to the length.

Not likely, unfortunately. The endtanks are only a couple mm smaller than the rad proper.

Also, if you want to orient the drives across the width of the case, you have to add the SATA power and data cable connectors. Even right angle versions of these are ~10mm, so you have to add that to the 100mm length of the drive.

Oh ok, I'm embarrassed now haha. Clearly did not give it much thought. So take out the SFX PSU option then, and perhaps there's no way for the SSDs to fit. But I think the AIO should fit. Are you sure about the 545LC dimensions? It's just 92x92x30 + the endtanks, but 125 seems way too long, and it's 30mm tall, not 60.

Perhaps the long version with 1080 Ti support is more practical as you'll be able to utilize the space for another fan or SSDs.

 

[Necere]

Are you sure about the 545LC dimensions? It's just 92x92x30 + the endtanks, but 125 seems way too long, and it's 30mm tall, not 60.

As it so happens, I actually have one here, so I just measured it again. Turns out I got the measurements wrong (checked it from a CAD model I had handy, which didn't actually turn out to be accurate since it was a modified version of a different model). The dimensions are actually 35x97x117.5mm. So it's not as long, but wider than I said. 60mm would be the thickness with a standard 25mm fan, so yeah, ~49mm with the slim Noctua.

 

[Maestria]

This may interest some of you as Custom_mod mini and Custom_mod flex mini share the same design.

If you plan to use a gigabyte 1080/1070 mini or MSI 1070 Aero itx

Keep going sergiiua, you are doind a good job.

This morning i did some test and i think i found something you should realy consider.
I use a gigabyte 1080 mini OC @1911Mhz , wich is a worst case scenario.

I did some stress test of my gigabyte under furmark and here the result :

All panel on :
100% Fan speed : 64°C
70% Fan speed : 80°C

Side panel off :
100% Fan speed : 60°C
70% Fan speed : 75°C

Front panel off : (i know the top and front panel are one piece but i let the front panel on my case, take a look at the picture i took to see what i mean)
100% Fan speed : 53°C
70% Fan speed : 64°C
58% Fan speed (Fan set to auto) : 74°C


The gigabyte 1080 mini expulse a lot of air in front and i think it's the same with the MSI 1070 Aero itx.

I don't know how you can do it without destroying your clean design. But i think some vent in the front could help a lot, maybe something like the Lazer3d LZ7. I guess in my case i can expect at least 10°C less.

Maybe you should try to add vent in this area :

 

[sergiiua]

Now with the case you can order a convenient and reliable Sata cable. Also you can order it yourself in the modDIY store.

SSD High-Speed 6Gbps SATA III Cable (20cm) [Straight - Straight]

 

[QuantumBraced]

Now with the case you can order a convenient and reliable Sata cable. Also you can order it yourself in the modDIY store.

SSD High-Speed 6Gbps SATA III Cable (20cm) [Straight - Straight]

These are really good. If you want even tinier SATA cables, I recommend the Silverstone CP11. I use them in my M1 build, they fit everywhere.

 

[bakakiba]

have the people received the batch 7? considering to buy but dont want to wait too long to get it.. considering to buy this case or zotac en1060k..

 

[QuantumBraced]

have the people received the batch 7? considering to buy but dont want to wait too long to get it.. considering to buy this case or zotac en1060k..

The Zotac is terrible value. It's 5.8L and uses a proprietary motherboard and an MXM GPU. With the 3.5L Mini you're getting a much cheaper, more powerful system that uses off-the-shelf components and is 40% smaller. If you don't want to wait, get any of the other 4-7L cases in production advertised here or on [H]ardforum SFF. Or consider the ASRock Deskmini GTX, which uses MXM too and is not good value, but at least it's really tiny at 2.7L or even smaller if you put it in a custom case.