So any eta on this masterpiece? I also saw the console style case. Both are beautiful I hope to see them on the market in the future.
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Stalled Compact 24L water cooling oriented ATX case
- Thread starter Necere
- Start date
Finally THE case I wanted: Aluminium based, minimalistic design, no window and without being a box of shoes.
I have just one question: With 180mm wide, what are the chances to fit inside a Mugen 5 (154.mm)? It is truly a masterpiece of cooling performance in a compact size, NH-U14S or NH-D15S levels of cooling performance under 155mm height...
I have just one question: With 180mm wide, what are the chances to fit inside a Mugen 5 (154.mm)? It is truly a masterpiece of cooling performance in a compact size, NH-U14S or NH-D15S levels of cooling performance under 155mm height...
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/be-quiet-launches-sfx-l-power-psu-series.html
Be Quiet! is coming out with 2 SFX-L PSU, 500 and 600 watts. Both have 4 X PCI connectors for all those needing SLI for this case.
Be Quiet! is coming out with 2 SFX-L PSU, 500 and 600 watts. Both have 4 X PCI connectors for all those needing SLI for this case.
No ETA at this point.
Zero chance that will fit. Currently the design allows for 145mm, and that's unlikely to increase (certainly not without increasing the width).
It's worth mentioning that there are a small number of tower coolers with 120mm fans that come in at/under that 145mm limit:
So the ATX/mATX case, where am I with this? Well, I haven't worked on the M5 version lately. Real life stuff, and also feeling a little dissatisfied with the whole thing. Thoughts and things:
W360 doesn't like the "M"-style, just in general. It doesn't blend well with furniture, he says. I kind of agree. He would prefer a more rounded style, something more like what I presented in the OP. I think the M style has it's place, but I also might like the rounded style a little more in general. However, I don't think the rounded style works very well for a windowed/show-off case, like, at all. To the point where I really wouldn't want to offer a window even as an option. That's where I think the M style works much better.
However, a full side window (glass or otherwise) - which seems to be want a lot of people want - may not work well with the M-style. Why? Well, because of how the panels extend past the back of the chassis for easy removal, as they do on the M1. Also, the difference in thickness between the glass and the aluminum sheet is going to cause the window to not sit flush where it meets the front panel. That doesn't make me happy. Alternative is a window-in-panel, but I feel like that's not enough for people anymore. The full side window is the thing now, people want that, plus the RGB lighting and whatever. It's the trend, and quite honestly I feel a little disgusted by it. Not the window or RGB per se - I don't hugely care one way or another - but feeling like I have to follow the trend with my designs, or they won't appeal to people.
So that's the thing. Why am I doing this? I know I'm compelled to work on things that I feel inspired to work on. Things that I actually want for myself. And that changes over time. Like, I don't actually have any need for an ATX/mATX case right now. What would I use it for? I have two ITX-based systems, both in M1s. They do everything I need. But, I've also been looking for a monitor upgrade for a long time - something high-res, high-refresh. If I get something like that, then maybe multi-GPUs might make some sense (though they still seem too finicky - maybe with DX12?). I don't really see myself doing a big custom water loop anytime soon - for my purposes it seems totally unnecessary, and seems like it's really more for looks than anything these days. Air cooling is more than sufficient, and much less hassle in general.
So that leaves the M5 in an uncertain place for me. It's not really what I want, what I personally have use for. And that's most of what drives me to work on things. Making people happy is a good secondary driver, and making money... is what it is - necessary, but thankfully not urgent for me. Either way, those latter two aren't primary drivers for me.
It's not all grim though; like I said, mATX is still something I'm at least a little interested in for future upgrade reasons. And so to that end, I was recently working on a new mATX design - something less ambitious and capable than the M5 concept, without water cooling support, and unlikely to support a window. It's smaller (~20L), air-only, and only supports mATX boards (no ATX). Style is rounded, with less ventilation (solid top), and fewer places for fans. Very purpose-built, with not too many different configurations possible (vs. the broad build flexibility the M1 and M5 have). Some may wonder what the point is, to which I would say, well if you want the same thing I want - a small, good looking, unobtrusive, quiet, low maintenance system - then maybe it's the case for you. If it sounds interesting, I can post some WIP pics.
W360 doesn't like the "M"-style, just in general. It doesn't blend well with furniture, he says. I kind of agree. He would prefer a more rounded style, something more like what I presented in the OP. I think the M style has it's place, but I also might like the rounded style a little more in general. However, I don't think the rounded style works very well for a windowed/show-off case, like, at all. To the point where I really wouldn't want to offer a window even as an option. That's where I think the M style works much better.
However, a full side window (glass or otherwise) - which seems to be want a lot of people want - may not work well with the M-style. Why? Well, because of how the panels extend past the back of the chassis for easy removal, as they do on the M1. Also, the difference in thickness between the glass and the aluminum sheet is going to cause the window to not sit flush where it meets the front panel. That doesn't make me happy. Alternative is a window-in-panel, but I feel like that's not enough for people anymore. The full side window is the thing now, people want that, plus the RGB lighting and whatever. It's the trend, and quite honestly I feel a little disgusted by it. Not the window or RGB per se - I don't hugely care one way or another - but feeling like I have to follow the trend with my designs, or they won't appeal to people.
So that's the thing. Why am I doing this? I know I'm compelled to work on things that I feel inspired to work on. Things that I actually want for myself. And that changes over time. Like, I don't actually have any need for an ATX/mATX case right now. What would I use it for? I have two ITX-based systems, both in M1s. They do everything I need. But, I've also been looking for a monitor upgrade for a long time - something high-res, high-refresh. If I get something like that, then maybe multi-GPUs might make some sense (though they still seem too finicky - maybe with DX12?). I don't really see myself doing a big custom water loop anytime soon - for my purposes it seems totally unnecessary, and seems like it's really more for looks than anything these days. Air cooling is more than sufficient, and much less hassle in general.
So that leaves the M5 in an uncertain place for me. It's not really what I want, what I personally have use for. And that's most of what drives me to work on things. Making people happy is a good secondary driver, and making money... is what it is - necessary, but thankfully not urgent for me. Either way, those latter two aren't primary drivers for me.
It's not all grim though; like I said, mATX is still something I'm at least a little interested in for future upgrade reasons. And so to that end, I was recently working on a new mATX design - something less ambitious and capable than the M5 concept, without water cooling support, and unlikely to support a window. It's smaller (~20L), air-only, and only supports mATX boards (no ATX). Style is rounded, with less ventilation (solid top), and fewer places for fans. Very purpose-built, with not too many different configurations possible (vs. the broad build flexibility the M1 and M5 have). Some may wonder what the point is, to which I would say, well if you want the same thing I want - a small, good looking, unobtrusive, quiet, low maintenance system - then maybe it's the case for you. If it sounds interesting, I can post some WIP pics.
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To me that's a dangerous path to follow, since trends come and go, not all at expected intervals. You might end up going for one trend and it'll be over before the production starts, making a trend-focused design suddenly seem outdated.
I like the Ncase M1 for it's timelessness: I've built it with a brand new Haswell platform and this summer I switched back to the case with the Ryzen platform and it still looks and feels amazing.
Amen to that, just from a reliability, simplicity and price standpoint, it's miles ahead. I recommend every PC enthusiast to some day do a watercooling build just for the experience and learning more about heat dissipation. But since watercooling is basically a modular heatpipe system still dependant on aircooling, I tend to choose the heat dissipation system without an expensive intermediate.
You had me at "new mATX design" <3
Please, share !!
Based on latest experience in my cerberus-x, aircooling is allowing to have better airflow inside case.
I'm not convinced any more with watercooling...it's requesting extra money, extra time to build, extra time to maintain, extra noise due to pump (even with high end dc/d5)...with risk of leakage...all that for a couple of degrees below...that is even not required for proper function of cpu or gpu..
In cerberus-x aircooling allowed also to cool ALL components of my setup, not only cpu or gpu..
I'm not convinced any more with watercooling...it's requesting extra money, extra time to build, extra time to maintain, extra noise due to pump (even with high end dc/d5)...with risk of leakage...all that for a couple of degrees below...that is even not required for proper function of cpu or gpu..
In cerberus-x aircooling allowed also to cool ALL components of my setup, not only cpu or gpu..
I don't think you would need to implement RGB. With all the secondary systems now nzxt, and corsair if someone wanted that they could easily implement it. Plus i agree with the timeless design where it is just a classy case and no need to muck with it like the m1(so classy). I fully agree with the rounded design and how it may look better in a window but i also love the m1 design as well. But, that is part of the problem your customer base loves the design of the m1 thus they would love a large design as well. Maybe play around with some other designs and see what truly sticks to you. Would tooling for manufacturing be cheaper though if you keep the same front design?
Now about the window. I would fully purchase the case without the window. I could easily make a glass side if i choose to. Like some did the with older revisions of the m1. I also would like the cut through window as well since it would hide the psu and radiators. Have no idea why people like looking at these things. Even if it was acrylic window i would be happy cause i could switch it to glass. I really wished we had cut throughs with glass and have no idea why the industry went straight to full glass sides.
The reason i am truly interested in a design like this is for my 7900x - 1080 ti build. I would love to have something more portable/smaller that has the option of having two 240mm radiators than my lian li pc-11 or a 360mm and 120mm. The asrock itx board is a huge killjoy due to the overall price tag. I cannot justify $400 for a x299 when i got mine for 179USD. Plus then you would have to switch your ram to dimm. Never really understood itx boards in general though they always try to charge more for less.
There just isn't anything currently on the market like this. Closest thing is the inwin 101c which has a horrible layout and tons of wasted space. Can air cool better yes it can. But once you have spend thousands on water cooling parts as i have its kinda a requirement now for my main house rig. Like the m1 i would be ecstatic if it support both air and water cooling to have that choice. But, with all that said if your heart is not in it then maybe put it to the side. I think it would be a great addition to the ncase brand though for expanding and would be first in line if it ever came to fruition.
Now about the window. I would fully purchase the case without the window. I could easily make a glass side if i choose to. Like some did the with older revisions of the m1. I also would like the cut through window as well since it would hide the psu and radiators. Have no idea why people like looking at these things. Even if it was acrylic window i would be happy cause i could switch it to glass. I really wished we had cut throughs with glass and have no idea why the industry went straight to full glass sides.
The reason i am truly interested in a design like this is for my 7900x - 1080 ti build. I would love to have something more portable/smaller that has the option of having two 240mm radiators than my lian li pc-11 or a 360mm and 120mm. The asrock itx board is a huge killjoy due to the overall price tag. I cannot justify $400 for a x299 when i got mine for 179USD. Plus then you would have to switch your ram to dimm. Never really understood itx boards in general though they always try to charge more for less.
There just isn't anything currently on the market like this. Closest thing is the inwin 101c which has a horrible layout and tons of wasted space. Can air cool better yes it can. But once you have spend thousands on water cooling parts as i have its kinda a requirement now for my main house rig. Like the m1 i would be ecstatic if it support both air and water cooling to have that choice. But, with all that said if your heart is not in it then maybe put it to the side. I think it would be a great addition to the ncase brand though for expanding and would be first in line if it ever came to fruition.
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I *also said we could make both. In fact, I suggested you sending me the files, and I take 100% responsibility for the design and execution of the rounded version - so it doesn't take away your focus on the M5.
I just want to clear up the fact I'm made an effort for things to move forward.
So I haven't put a whole lot of work into this yet, but here's what I have so far:
Dimensions: 320x170x365mm, 19.86L
CPU cooler: ~140mm
Motherboard: microATX, mini-ITX
Slots: 5
Drives: mix of 2.5" and 3.5"; shares space with expansion slots so exact number varies depending on card use
PSU: SFX, SFX-L or ATX (up to 140mm)
Fans: 140mm front intake, 2x92mm rear exhaust
This is a functional, minimalist design that doesn't try to do anything fancy with watercooling support or anything else. Just a small case that tries to do the essentials well: front-to-back airflow w/dust filtration and no unneeded ventilation holes (front and back only), decent component support without wasting any space. Just simple, clean, compact, efficient.
Dimensions: 320x170x365mm, 19.86L
CPU cooler: ~140mm
Motherboard: microATX, mini-ITX
Slots: 5
Drives: mix of 2.5" and 3.5"; shares space with expansion slots so exact number varies depending on card use
PSU: SFX, SFX-L or ATX (up to 140mm)
Fans: 140mm front intake, 2x92mm rear exhaust
This is a functional, minimalist design that doesn't try to do anything fancy with watercooling support or anything else. Just a small case that tries to do the essentials well: front-to-back airflow w/dust filtration and no unneeded ventilation holes (front and back only), decent component support without wasting any space. Just simple, clean, compact, efficient.
Well bam, that's a clean, focused, efficient case ! Love it ! Get'er done !
It looks like it would almost support ATX motherboards. To me it makes sense to have that flexibility along 2,5" and 3,5" support because more and more ATX boards have 3 M.2 slots allowing people to not only have storage options either way, but also support for an extra add-in card like capture, 10G networking or audio card. Is this something you've consider to exploit in the concept ?
It looks like it would almost support ATX motherboards. To me it makes sense to have that flexibility along 2,5" and 3,5" support because more and more ATX boards have 3 M.2 slots allowing people to not only have storage options either way, but also support for an extra add-in card like capture, 10G networking or audio card. Is this something you've consider to exploit in the concept ?
The case is currently 320mm tall, and to support ATX motherboards would be an additional ~35mm or so. More board choice, I suppose, and better multi GPU support and cooling, plus more space for drives. But I think for the 80-90% of people that just use a single GPU and 1-3 drives, this is more than sufficient, and it offers just enough room without wasting any space.
That single 140mm filtered intake is going to be asked of a lot to draw in enough air for the whole system bar the PSU. With the dual-NVTTM configuration show, it's also going to be pushing directly against the VRM exhaust from the GPUs, leaving a rather circuitous path for inlet air to reach the CPU cooler.
With modern CPUs being relative low-power compared to even a single high-end GPU (<100W vs. >200W, potentially >400W for dual-GPU), a reversed flow (filter the 2x80mm fans as intakes and switch the 140mm to exhaust) may reduce CPU temperatures significantly with a relatively small bump to GPU temperatures. Ideally ducted so the inlets blow over the motherboard beneath the CPU cooler, up through the CPU cooler, and using the void at the side of the case as a plenum to move air down to the GPU & drive area, where it is then exhausted out the back (through the GPUs) or the front (through the 140mm).
With modern CPUs being relative low-power compared to even a single high-end GPU (<100W vs. >200W, potentially >400W for dual-GPU), a reversed flow (filter the 2x80mm fans as intakes and switch the 140mm to exhaust) may reduce CPU temperatures significantly with a relatively small bump to GPU temperatures. Ideally ducted so the inlets blow over the motherboard beneath the CPU cooler, up through the CPU cooler, and using the void at the side of the case as a plenum to move air down to the GPU & drive area, where it is then exhausted out the back (through the GPUs) or the front (through the 140mm).
Mamamia...your design is pretty close to cerberus..
For aircooling support i'll suggest full vented side cover, a feature that @Aibohphobia did not want to implement for cost and esthetics..
For top panel, you didn't want to put any vents? After not really needed as you have dual rear fan on rear side..
What is cpu cooler height, something like 140mm, as you have 92mm fan on rear.
Due to high temperature/power consumption, do you think to make it compatible with best aircooler like noctua nh-d15?
For aircooling support i'll suggest full vented side cover, a feature that @Aibohphobia did not want to implement for cost and esthetics..
For top panel, you didn't want to put any vents? After not really needed as you have dual rear fan on rear side..
What is cpu cooler height, something like 140mm, as you have 92mm fan on rear.
Due to high temperature/power consumption, do you think to make it compatible with best aircooler like noctua nh-d15?
You think? A 140mm Noctua moves a similar amount of air as a pair of 92mms at a similar noise level, albeit at a somewhat lower static pressure. But with the PSU also drawing air into the case, overall the intake-exhaust balance could be approximately equal, for a close to neutral pressure design. If the 140mm were working alone against a lot of backpressure, I think it would be more of a concern.
Well, I wouldn't expect most people to use blower cards in this case. I'm just using those as a reference and because I have the models for them.
Here's a straight on side view:
As you can see, there's a gap - about 35mm - between the top of the GPU and the PSU. That's a 140mm long ATX PSU, so the gap would be even greater with SFX/SFX-L. Once concern here is the power cables coming down directly in front of the fan, though to what extent that will reduce airflow it's hard to say. Again, more of a concern with an ATX PSU.
Reverse airflow can make some sense in certain scenarios, but in general I don't love the idea. For this layout, I don't think it works that well. It conflicts with the PSU airflow, another filter would be needed on the back, and it would push all the heat to the front, where it becomes a cosmetic/comfort issue for the user.
Sort of, but only really so far as the PSU location goes. The Cerberus is designed with greater flexibility in mind, more like the M1, with ventilation everywhere. This is more closed up, with essentially only one way to set up the cooling.Mamamia...your design is pretty close to cerberus..
Again, this design is supposed to be more closed up, with less ventilation holes. It looks cleaner, and is literally cleaner (i.e., easier to keep dust out, with only a single filtered intake at the front and no other vents besides the back).For aircooling support i'll suggest full vented side cover, a feature that @Aibohphobia did not want to implement for cost and esthetics..
For top panel, you didn't want to put any vents? After not really needed as you have dual rear fan on rear side..
Yeah, currently max CPU height is around 140mm. Going to the 165mm required by the D15 means increasing the case width by 25mm, which I don't particularly want to do. The NH-C14-S, while not as good as the D15, still provides reasonably good performance and fits easily in the low profile single fan config. It outperforms the perennial cooler recommendation, the Evo 212, by a fair bit at least:
SUre noctua c14s is a very good cpu cooler (i own one in my cerberus-x). My concern if you plan to use is lack of intake/exhaust on side in front on it.
With plain side panel it will just recyle inside air, leading to significant cooling efficiency drop, no?
With plain side panel it will just recyle inside air, leading to significant cooling efficiency drop, no?
I'm thinking if there's a positive flow from the front face to the back face there won't be any severe heat recycling around the C14S? maybe even a fully positive pressure setup (all fans in intake to force air out of the venting holes like the PSU vent or the GPU IO plate) o_o
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