Stalled Compact 24L water cooling oriented ATX case

[Necere]

UPDATE December 2017: this project is on hold for the time being.


Original post follows below:

----

This concept is a compact, water cooling-oriented inverted ATX case, with flexible mounting for fans/rads, PSU, and drives on the top and front. The flexible mounting allows you to make different trade offs based on your needs. For example, mounting a radiator or PSU at the top will block off some of the expansion slots.

Preliminary specs:

Dimensions (H x W x D): 350 x 180 x 380mm, 24L
CPU cooler: ~145mm
Motherboard: inverted ATX, 8 slots
Front fan mounts: 2x flexible 140/120mm
Top fan mounts: 2x flexible 140/120mm
Rear fan mount: 1x 92mm
PSU: SFX/SFX-L, flexible mounting
Radiator support: Up to 1x280 in front + 1x240 on top
Drives: TBD
Window: optional

WIP interior pic:

I'm also playing with a couple different directions for exterior styling:

#1, rounded style

#2, M-style

I'd like to hear which design direction people prefer, as well as any other feedback or thoughts people might have.

 

[Necere]

A few more renders of the M style:

 

[Phuncz]

I always love to see an SFF take on ATX !

Visually #1 doesn't seem tto have the right proportions in the front, #2 is better in that regard but also seems a little off. I can't put my hand on it though. It's probably your previous mATX renders I'm mostly stricken by visually, which also possessed some ATX cred, but looked like amazing concepts.

These do seem to offer a lot of real cooling/airflow potential. I'm also a fan of the rotated internal orientation and the solid side-panels. The bottom panel will not be perforated I assume ? It doesn't seem to offer much benefit, but I thought I'd ask.

How "flexible" is the SFX PSU mounting ? Does it need to be mounted in the front or top, competing for room with a dual-length radiator in the respective side or are you planning vertical mounting (so internal cooling) as well ?

 

[Necere]

I always love to see an SFF take on ATX !

Visually #1 doesn't seem tto have the right proportions in the front, #2 is better in that regard but also seems a little off. I can't put my hand on it though. It's probably your previous mATX renders I'm mostly stricken by visually, which also possessed some ATX cred, but looked like amazing concepts.

This is smaller than most of those concepts, chiefly because it supports SFX PSUs exclusively. We saw a lot more upcoming SFX-L units at Computex, and it seems it's finally poised to take the place of ATX for a majority of use cases. Two years ago, I still considered ATX PSU support mandatory for mATX and up, but SFX/SFX-L finally seems like a viable replacement.

Proportions are a bit tricky here. Part of it may be the solid strip above and below the front panel vents are different heights. This is partly due to the space the front I/O takes up at the top. I could remove two rows of vents to equalize the heights, but then the M1-reminiscent cutout at the bottom (which is there to assist front panel removal) looks a bit off.

These do seem to offer a lot of real cooling/airflow potential. I'm also a fan of the rotated internal orientation and the solid side-panels. The bottom panel will not be perforated I assume ? It doesn't seem to offer much benefit, but I thought I'd ask.

Bottom panel is solid, correct. Airflow is intended to be in through the front, out through the top and rear. Top could also serve as intake though, especially if the PSU is mounted there.

How "flexible" is the SFX PSU mounting ? Does it need to be mounted in the front or top, competing for room with a dual-length radiator in the respective side or are you planning vertical mounting (so internal cooling) as well ?

The front and top have a flexible mounting rail system for 120 and 140mm fans:

The PSU mounts to a bracket, which in turn can be mounted anywhere along those rails using the 120mm fan hole spacing. So yeah, effectively it will take up one fan space if it's mounted to the rails. Same thing with a drive cage.

Alternatively, I plan to allow the rear 92mm fan to be swapped out with a bracket for the PSU, so it'd be over the motherboard. That would allow the front and top to be fully utilized for a 280+240 rad setup.

 

[Phuncz]

Alternatively, I plan to allow the rear 92mm fan to be swapped out with a bracket for the PSU, so it'd be over the motherboard. That would allow the front and top to be fully utilized for a 280+240 rad setup.

That sounds like an excellent option for all the watercooling solution possibilities this concept offers. And for people considering air-cooling only or a combination of both are still possible well enough that it can work out. After giving the #2 a second good look the design is growing on me. It's starting to make sense visually now. Technically it would be able to support everything from a decently performing whisper-quiet system up to full-blown HEDT platform dual GPU behemoth.

Have you thought about storage options yet ? Considering the size, even many 3,5" drives could be possible. Maybe look into making the Ncase M1 3,5" brackets compatible with the case so 2nd time Ncase buyers can benefit from the extra drive bracket they might have. Worst case it makes one less part/SKU to worry about. Maybe too for the 240mm dust filter.

 

[jeshikat]

I assume with all this rad space that dual-GPU is a target market, in which case you many need to rethink the PSU bracket and/or height. Many high-end ATX motherboards have the top GPU slot in slot position 2, and then two slots between it and the next GPU slot. Thus the second GPU slot on those boards is slot position 5.

The ASRock Z270 KILLER SLI/AC is the most reviewed Z270 board on Newegg for example.

Currently there isn't enough room between Slot 5 and a top-mounted PSU even with a GPU with single-slot IO and water block.

Visually #1 doesn't seem tto have the right proportions in the front, #2 is better in that regard but also seems a little off. I can't put my hand on it though.

I agree, both look off but I can't quite articulate it. I think for #2 it's because it kinda looks like someone just took an M1 panel and punched holes in it. The vent pattern just doesn't feel cohesive, maybe partly because the pattern extends right up to the bend line.

This is just 1.5mm aluminum right? Those long strips for the fan mounts probably will be too flexible, splitting them up into smaller section would be better.

 

[Necere]

That sounds like an excellent option for all the watercooling solution possibilities this concept offers. And for people considering air-cooling only or a combination of both are still possible well enough that it can work out.

Indeed, while I've described it as being water cooling oriented, there is no reason you couldn't do a perfectly competent air cooling build in it. It doesn't support 160mm+ CPU coolers, but I'm specifically targeting 145mm (10mm more than the M1) because there are at least a couple of small 120mm fan tower coolers that height (e.g., the Cryorig H7 and Thermalright True Spirit 120M). Utilizing an exhaust fan on the top will also help to pull out the GPU heat, without having it affect the CPU as it would with a rear-only or top exhaust in a standard orientation case.

Have you thought about storage options yet ? Considering the size, even many 3,5" drives could be possible. Maybe look into making the Ncase M1 3,5" brackets compatible with the case so 2nd time Ncase buyers can benefit from the extra drive bracket they might have. Worst case it makes one less part/SKU to worry about. Maybe too for the 240mm dust filter.

This will probably need a new cage design, since the one in the M1 is designed specifically to be offset for CPU cooler clearance. They would probably still work in this case, though.

The M1 filters won't work here, however. The intake area is quite a bit larger on this case compared to the M1.

I assume with all this rad space that dual-GPU is a target market, in which case you many need to rethink the PSU bracket and/or height. Many high-end ATX motherboards have the top GPU slot in slot position 2, and then two slots between it and the next GPU slot. Thus the second GPU slot on those boards is slot position 5.

The ASRock Z270 KILLER SLI/AC is the most reviewed Z270 board on Newegg for example.

Currently there isn't enough room between Slot 5 and a top-mounted PSU even with a GPU with single-slot IO and water block.

Well, you're not wrong, but only just:

But yeah, I'm aware of the slot spacing on ATX, and I made the same point over at [H] yesterday (#3). I have some room, so it's not a big deal to put a bit of clearance in.

This is just 1.5mm aluminum right? Those long strips for the fan mounts probably will be too flexible, splitting them up into smaller section would be better.

We're going to try to do steel for the chassis, actually. But this is far from final, and will probably see several revisions. You should have seen how many revisions the bottom vent pattern on the M1 went through...

Also, I suppose I should mention that I'm aware there's some similarity here between this concept and Cerberus-X, both in size and capability. I had the idea for this layout going around the back of my mind for a while, and in Sketchup for several months now. And of course we've been talking about doing an mATX case for ages; I guess with recent developments in power supplies and motherboards, a clear direction finally solidified, and resulted in a concept that feels compelling enough to pursue.

It isn't my intention to step on your toes, of course. I suppose when we have similar goals, inevitably some of the solutions we come up with will be similar. I guess I would hope that both cases could coexist peacefully. Also, as this is still quite early in development, I wouldn't expect it very soon.

 

[Biowarejak]

I really like the rounded style, but I'm a fan of the bottom cut-out from the M-style. That said, I can certainly see the appeal in your brand having continuity between designs So I'd go that route.

 

[jeshikat]

Also, I suppose I should mention that I'm aware there's some similarity here between this concept and Cerberus-X, both in size and capability.

It isn't my intention to step on your toes, of course. I suppose when we have similar goals, inevitably some of the solutions we come up with will be similar.

Oh absolutely, I have nothing against this case and wish you and @wahaha360 the best of luck with it! And now if someone says Cerberus is a M1 ripoff I can just point them here

 

[ElinaNguyen]

Do you have any consideration to an mATX case in the 18 - 20L range? @Necere

 

[Necere]

Do you have any consideration to an mATX case in the 18 - 20L range? @Necere

I've considered smaller mATX designs, sure. They wouldn't have the water cooling capability or general flexibility this has, though. I'm sure there's a place and a market for something like that, but it's really a subject for another thread.

 

[Necere]

Did a little work on the front panel, equalizing the top and bottom solid section and adding taller feet:

Any improvement for you @Phuncz ?

 

[iFreilicht]

I'd like to hear which design direction people prefer, as well as any other feedback or thoughts people might have.

#2 all the way!

A few more renders of the M style:

This view is the one that still looks a bit off. Could you not remove a few of the lower vent holes?

What about removing one or two rows towards the side? It does look much less cramped in the picture below, but from the front the grill just takes up a bit too much space.

EDIT:

Yes that looks quite a bit better towards the bottom. I'd still like to see a render with the grill being a little less wide than this, though.
END EDIT

The front and top have a flexible mounting rail system for 120 and 140mm fans:

Looking at these two views, do you think there is a possibility of allowing people to mount the I/O in the bottom as well as there was in the M1? I'm sure some people will put these cases onto their desks, so having I/O down there would be preferable for them.

It seems doable to me in theory, but maybe it's not worth it.

 

[Necere]

What about removing one or two rows towards the side? It does look much less cramped in the picture below, but from the front the grill just takes up a bit too much space.

EDIT:


Yes that looks quite a bit better towards the bottom. I'd still like to see a render with the grill being a little less wide than this, though.
END EDIT

Removed two columns:

Looking at these two views, do you think there is a possibility of allowing people to mount the I/O in the bottom as well as there was in the M1? I'm sure some people will put these cases onto their desks, so having I/O down there would be preferable for them.

It seems doable to me in theory, but maybe it's not worth it.

The mounting rails right now extend almost to the bottom to allow for more flexibility with fan/rad mounting, and that would have to be reduced to the point that two 140mm fans would basically only just fit, with no vertical adjustment. The cutout at the bottom would also need to be enlarged both vertically and horizontally, which probably isn't going to look great without the I/O there... I guess I lean towards "not worth it."

I/O placement is a bit tricky with this, because I know some people don't like upward facing ports. OTOH, I/O at the bottom like the M1 are borderline unusable if the case is on the floor. Forward facing I/O at the top is a possibility, and would probably offend the fewest number of people, but IMO the aesthetics of that aren't great.

 

[Biowarejak]

I/O at the bottom like the M1 are borderline unusable if the case is on the floor.

But how many people water cool and then put that work of art on the floor? Unless there's no windows. Then the floor it goes.

 

[Necere]

Fair point.

 

[masteraleph]

I do want to support using ATX motherboards an option here- someone on [H] was asking about mATX x370 motherboards in the motherboard forum, and I realized that basically no one is doing one. z270 has a few options, but it does seem like mini-ITX is soaking up a lot of the attention for SFF, so ATX is a great idea.

I love the way that the I/O looks on the top, but I worry about future compatibility- how would that look if, say, USB-C starts to take off in a year or two?

 

[Necere]

I do want to support using ATX motherboards an option here- someone on [H] was asking about mATX x370 motherboards in the motherboard forum, and I realized that basically no one is doing one. z270 has a few options, but it does seem like mini-ITX is soaking up a lot of the attention for SFF, so ATX is a great idea.

Yeah, the lack of new enthusiast mATX boards is one of the driving factors for supporting ATX in this design. Plus it affords better options for water cooling and dual GPUs.

I love the way that the I/O looks on the top, but I worry about future compatibility- how would that look if, say, USB-C starts to take off in a year or two?

Well, to be clear, the I/O shown in the renders isn't final, and will probably include at least one Type C port. I actually just haven't gotten around to modeling a Type C connector yet That's really the only reason there isn't one already.

 

[grumpyrobin]

I really really like your new design language that you started with Rev3 for the SteamBox.

Do you have a rough estimate of the case weight?

I can't put my finger on it, but I get the feeling that something could be better for watercooling placements.
Like how some guys on the M1 use a slim 240 rad at the bottom and a thick 120 rad on the back exhaust in the same loop.

I would love to see this design intentionally have multiple spots for multiple rads of different sizes, even if they are custom sized.

Personally I don't like 280 on the front, makes the case 2cm thicker than the m1.
I think 240 on the front and 280 on the side , maybe a 360 on the top would be nice.
and maybe multiple psu positions , like bottom a(what it is now), b(90°angle, M1 position, and M1 ATX position etc.

 

[jeshikat]

Removed two columns:

Yeah, that looks better. Maybe even remove two more columns?

But how many people water cool and then put that work of art on the floor? Unless there's no windows. Then the floor it goes.

Not everyone water cools for aesthetics even if there is a window, it can be done for thermals or noise.

So I think IO closer to the top makes more sense for a bigger case like this, since it's usable with the case either on the floor or on top the desk.