Stalled Compact 24L water cooling oriented ATX case

[Phuncz]

This isn't really a server board, but a workstation board. It can do server duties ofcourse, but it's clearly designed to be used for heavy workstation loads like rendering, editing and processing. All we need now is @Necere to make it into a portable workstation The stuff of (nerdy) dreams.

 

[blisscalintz]

Such a cool idea. I loved my M1 but wished it was a little bit bigger to allow for easier watercooling. Let me know when the Kickstarter begins.

 

[Pat-Roner]

Still my favorite design you've come up with. The front is so beautiful

 

[MarcParis]

It’s a big version...
Similar, standard and effective layout as latest case from major brand...at least without plastic..

 

[Necere]

Still my favorite design you've come up with. The front is so beautiful

It's a favorite of mine too, but it's a larger case and the relative "3D-ness" of the front panel/chassis makes it less suitable for flat packing. That's an important factor for affordability, because of how much shipping cost goes up with volume. However great a case might be, there's only so many people willing to pay $100 for shipping on top of probably $200+ for the case.

That design also doesn't offer as much possibility for water cooling, although the greater width does make it better for air builds.

 

[Nasp]

It's a favorite of mine too, but it's a larger case and the relative "3D-ness" of the front panel/chassis makes it less suitable for flat packing. That's an important factor for affordability, because of how much shipping cost goes up with volume. However great a case might be, there's only so many people willing to pay $100 for shipping on top of probably $200+ for the case.

That design also doesn't offer as much possibility for water cooling, although the greater width does make it better for air builds.

Agreed. That's probably what sunk the Cryorig Taku Kickstarter. They wanted $100 for shipping in a lot of places on top of the $299 price of the case. At $400 it was a hard bargain.

 

[DocH]

It's a favorite of mine too, but it's a larger case and the relative "3D-ness" of the front panel/chassis makes it less suitable for flat packing. That's an important factor for affordability, because of how much shipping cost goes up with volume. However great a case might be, there's only so many people willing to pay $100 for shipping on top of probably $200+ for the case.

That design also doesn't offer as much possibility for water cooling, although the greater width does make it better for air builds.

shipping is legal robbery. Seriously, i have done a lot of shipping this past year and it can eat through profits so quickly.

 

[Pat-Roner]

Tbh, i don't care about the size of that design, just love the front and the air-intakes for it

 

[Mascott]

Any update on weather this case will happen? Love the idea off this case and would love to own one if it is made

 

[Nasp]

Crickets......

Now, I'm going to be honest and I know that sometimes my honesty can come across as harsh, but it seems that Necere is fearful of what the music industry calls "the sophomore slump".

Ncase made this wonderful first case and it has been hugely successful. I can't help but wonder if Ncases is afraid that their second case won't be received well. There are a lot of things going on here so I won't speculate too much. However, Necere has said, either on these forums or Hardforums, that he tends to overthink things a bit too much. Whatever the case may be (no pun intended), I hope he finds what it takes to pull the trigger on this one. It's a great concept with a lot of things people want in an SFF case. Considering the Ncase branding, I think it will do very well for itself.

 

[Necere]

Sorry for not saying much lately - I haven't had much to say. I don't really have any answer to "if/when" questions.

Ncase made this wonderful first case and it has been hugely successful. I can't help but wonder if Ncases is afraid that their second case won't be received well. There are a lot of things going on here so I won't speculate too much. However, Necere has said, either on these forums or Hardforums, that he tends to overthink things a bit too much. Whatever the case may be (no pun intended), I hope he finds what it takes to pull the trigger on this one.

"Ncases" is half w360, and he wants to produce new cases more than anyone, believe me. The problem is me. There are a lot of problems to solve, and I just haven't been in a problem-solving state of mind.

It's not about "pulling the trigger" on the case; it's a lengthy process to design something properly, and it's only compounded by how much more I've learned since I designed the M1. There are things I'm still learning, because even 4+ years later, we'll get emails from people about things I didn't realize were a problem. So there's this ever-growing list of things I have to keep in mind while designing that I was simply ignorant of five years ago. And every tiny decision influences half a dozen others.

I'm exhausted, basically. Mentally. Have been for a long time. I get some burst of energy and inspiration with new ideas, but it's never really enough to carry me through the lengthy process of working out a fully manufacturing-ready design. It's an absolute slog.

I also get to be constantly reminded of everything that's wrong with the M1, through support emails, forums posts, posts on reddit, etc. It's taxing reading all of it. I feel like I've failed people.

So I think about how I can improve things in the next design to avoid all those problems. Then when I get inspired by an idea, and I'll get into "design mode," which is "big picture" and I'll make something that looks good. But the devil is in the details, and I'll realize that it has such-and-such a problem if I design it that way, and have to scrap it. It's just utterly demotivating and I sometimes feel like I can't do anything right, and all my work is shit.

So I don't know. I need to be in a better space to deal with these issues. Exercise more, socialize more. Something. I still want to make things that are beautiful, that work well. I just need to figure out how.

Sorry if this is TMI. I don't feel particularly comfortable talking publicly about this. But we've all got our struggles, and I'm sure mine aren't unique. Maybe talking about it will help.

 

[DocH]

Sorry for not saying much lately - I haven't had much to say. I don't really have any answer to "if/when" questions.


"Ncases" is half w360, and he wants to produce new cases more than anyone, believe me. The problem is me. There are a lot of problems to solve, and I just haven't been in a problem-solving state of mind.

It's not about "pulling the trigger" on the case; it's a lengthy process to design something properly, and it's only compounded by how much more I've learned since I designed the M1. There are things I'm still learning, because even 4+ years later, we'll get emails from people about things I didn't realize were a problem. So there's this ever-growing list of things I have to keep in mind while designing that I was simply ignorant of five years ago. And every tiny decision influences half a dozen others.

I'm exhausted, basically. Mentally. Have been for a long time. I get some burst of energy and inspiration with new ideas, but it's never really enough to carry me through the lengthy process of working out a fully manufacturing-ready design. It's an absolute slog.

I also get to be constantly reminded of everything that's wrong with the M1, through support emails, forums posts, posts on reddit, etc. It's taxing reading all of it. I feel like I've failed people.

So I think about how I can improve things in the next design to avoid all those problems. Then when I get inspired by an idea, and I'll get into "design mode," which is "big picture" and I'll make something that looks good. But the devil is in the details, and I'll realize that it has such-and-such a problem if I design it that way, and have to scrap it. It's just utterly demotivating and I sometimes feel like I can't do anything right, and all my work is shit.

So I don't know. I need to be in a better space to deal with these issues. Exercise more, socialize more. Something. I still want to make things that are beautiful, that work well. I just need to figure out how.

Sorry if this is TMI. I don't feel particularly comfortable talking publicly about this. But we've all got our struggles, and I'm sure mine aren't unique. Maybe talking about it will help.

I feel you people are completely tough to deal with and sometimes you just gotta say there is no way to make everyone happy. Doesn't mean you have fail as a case designer or a company. It is just the nature of the business especially in the pc area where there is that elite/enthusiast mentally where people believe they must be catered to. I have a MCASE M1 V1 from the original kickstarter and in all honesty i am completely satisfied with the purchase and i personally couldn't think of any way to change it.

Since you are answering your customer service it definitely can discourage you which is why i personally don't field questions like that because it is hard not to take is personally as a designer. If you could off load that to someone i think it will help your creativity and not feel so ran down.

All in all though i believe we as a community fully understand why and how you feel the way you do. Still fingers crossed that someday this case comes to fruition as it is a fantastic idea, but you have to have the motivation to complete it.

 

[Necere]

Since you are answering your customer service it definitely can discourage you which is why i personally don't field questions like that because it is hard not to take is personally as a designer. If you could off load that to someone i think it will help your creativity and not feel so ran down.

It's a bit of a double-edged sword though, because as I said I do learn about things that I hadn't even realized were issues. That helps me understand how the next case can be made better, but also puts more constraints on the design, thereby making it that much harder.

As for customer support, w360 fields 95% of the emails so he takes the brunt of customer ire as is. He only forwards the ones to me that he can't answer well, or the more difficult edge case defect replacement or troubleshooting calls. I mainly post on reddit and elsewhere. With only two of us, there's no one else to handle CS anyway, and for some of the questions we get, I'm the only one that can provide a good answer.

 

[Nanook]

I am in product development. I totally understand the thrill of design, and concept realization. However, that excitement also comes with the long tail of Design For Manufacturing, and commercialization. In your case, it includes supply chain, fulfillment, and customer service... Definitely exhausting for two persons.

 

[Necere]

The other thing is, because it's turned into this kind of burden - on both my mental and emotional energy - I'm more wary of wanting to create another burden that I'll be dealing with in 3, 4, 5+ years. It's like having children, in a way, except it doesn't love you back. The best you can hope for is compliments from strangers, and the validation that comes from seeing your work out there and being well-received generally.

So an obsession over details in this case is actually less about perfectionism, as it is about wanting to minimize future problems as much as possible. If I can design for known failure modes, I will save both end users and both w360 and myself a lot of grief in the long run.

 

[K888D]

I also get to be constantly reminded of everything that's wrong with the M1, through support emails, forums posts, posts on reddit, etc. It's taxing reading all of it. I feel like I've failed people.

I think your vastly underselling yourself and what you have accomplished.

No product is ever perfect, you can never satisfy everyone with a single product, but that's a good thing, it drives competition and innovation.

What you've done is designed a bloody good case that accomplished something no other company had managed to achieve before, even more impressive that there was only 2 of you behind it. You created a case that has become iconic, your design inspired a whole new community of designers to follow in your footsteps, each one trying to match what you have achieved.

The bar has been set very high and you should be proud of that. It may not be the perfect design, but it's damn near close, and what chance would the rest of us have it it was?!

 

[DocH]

The other thing is, because it's turned into this kind of burden - on both my mental and emotional energy - I'm more wary of wanting to create another burden that I'll be dealing with in 3, 4, 5+ years. It's like having children, in a way, except it doesn't love you back. The best you can hope for is compliments from strangers, and the validation that comes from seeing your work out there and being well-received generally.

So an obsession over details in this case is actually less about perfectionism, as it is about wanting to minimize future problems as much as possible. If I can design for known failure modes, I will save both end users and both w360 and myself a lot of grief in the long run.

as like with children hopefully you are at a point in the case design where not more adjustments are required. (Grow up and get out of the house, self-sufficient) Where you can put production into autopilot for the most part. I think you pretty much are there but again that is my personal opinion on the case. Of course there will always be some issues, but hopefully most of those have been worked out by now. But if worse comes to worse if your passion is not there, you are not enjoying it sometimes it is best to take a leave of absence.

 

[Necere]

I think your vastly underselling yourself and what you have accomplished.

No product is ever perfect, you can never satisfy everyone with a single product, but that's a good thing, it drives competition and innovation.

What you've done is designed a bloody good case that accomplished something no other company had managed to achieve before, even more impressive that there was only 2 of you behind it. You created a case that has become iconic, your design inspired a whole new community of designers to follow in your footsteps, each one trying to match what you have achieved.

The bar has been set very high and you should be proud of that. It may not be the perfect design, but it's damn near close, and what chance would the rest of us have it it was?!

Sure, and intellectually I know that on balance, it's a pretty good product. But how I feel about it is a little different. Part of that is because I get a somewhat lopsided view, since I'm seeing all the problems people have. You know, we don't tend to get a lot of emails from people that are completely happy with the case The problems I tend to feel worst about are the ones that, ironically, I had the least to do with. Build quality issues - misaligned panels, stripped threads, chipped paint. These are, in part, manufacturing limitations, and come with the territory. But being more familiar with them now I can also take steps to mitigate the likelihood of these problems occurring with future designs. Again though, it creates more complication in the design process, and I still have some uncertainty whether some possible remedies will actually be effective, or if they'll create issues of their own.

I do take some pride in what we've done to help spur this little cottage industry of boutique case makers, even if at this point most people aren't aware of the role we've had in doing so. I'm not big on seeking recognition, anyway. It's neat to have been a part of, at least.

 

[MarcParis]

M1 case is truly a masterpiece...don’t be ashamed by remarks from customers. You brought your vision of swiss army knife is sff case world...
It’s amazing how people are using it...in an expected way...

M5, as bigger case, should be a more straight forward path...however should be... Take your time to define your vision...genius at work requires time...

 

[Nanook]

@Necere The NCase M1 is probably the most versatile, well-designed case I’ve ever built in. Like most products, there’s always the silent majority that loves their M1. This is an enthusiast product, and the vocal minority are probably even more so. Personally I have two M1s, one of which is kept “stock”, while the other is modded to further push its versatility. It is fun.
That said, this isn’t to pressure NCase to come up with another “perfect” product. There’s no such as thing as a perfect product. Everyone has a different needs.