Poor @Necere everybody is giving his/her 2 cents..
Clearly, a sff in atx is a pretty good idea..now it's up to you to guide your design..
Anything SFF is a good idea
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Stalled Compact 24L water cooling oriented ATX case
- Thread starter Necere
- Start date
Anything SFF is a good idea
@Necere I'd be interested to know how many people buy non-reference GPUs and slap a waterblock on them (or buy non-reference GPUs with waterblocks already installed).
Seems that most people just buy a Founders Edition 1080 or 1080 TI and slap on the waterblock separate. How tall is a reference card with a waterblock? It's 111mm with the stock FE air cooler so the addition of the waterblock shouldn't add 39mm of additional height, pushing it beyond 150mm of the case. I actually have a FE 1080 TI with waterblock from EKWB, so I could measure it if you wanted some measurements (away from home ATM).
So if folks want to watercool (I do!) in this case then the compatibility is present. I think people who are water cooling with non-reference cards with waterblocks preinstalled (MSI 1080 TI Seahawk and such) are in the minority of water cooling users. Since this is going to be a SFF ATX case, people should be expecting to use reference cards with waterblocks if they are wanting to watercool.
It's like buying an M1 and expecting to use a Zotac 1080 TI AMP edition. Folks should be aware that monster cards are not going to fit.
Seems that most people just buy a Founders Edition 1080 or 1080 TI and slap on the waterblock separate. How tall is a reference card with a waterblock? It's 111mm with the stock FE air cooler so the addition of the waterblock shouldn't add 39mm of additional height, pushing it beyond 150mm of the case. I actually have a FE 1080 TI with waterblock from EKWB, so I could measure it if you wanted some measurements (away from home ATM).
So if folks want to watercool (I do!) in this case then the compatibility is present. I think people who are water cooling with non-reference cards with waterblocks preinstalled (MSI 1080 TI Seahawk and such) are in the minority of water cooling users. Since this is going to be a SFF ATX case, people should be expecting to use reference cards with waterblocks if they are wanting to watercool.
It's like buying an M1 and expecting to use a Zotac 1080 TI AMP edition. Folks should be aware that monster cards are not going to fit.
Well, well i'm this kind of person who bought a non reference gtx 1080ti, as you can overclock it more..
At one time i studied to watercool it...but cerberus-x is too narrow to have a standard waterblock...
HOWEVER for those like me who want to watercool anyway in a narrow case, you can choose nzxt kraken g12 with any asetek v5 aio kit...
SO conclusion, keep a 150mm/160mm width to fit large aircooled gpu or reference model watercool or aftermarket card + kraken g12..
At one time i studied to watercool it...but cerberus-x is too narrow to have a standard waterblock...
HOWEVER for those like me who want to watercool anyway in a narrow case, you can choose nzxt kraken g12 with any asetek v5 aio kit...
SO conclusion, keep a 150mm/160mm width to fit large aircooled gpu or reference model watercool or aftermarket card + kraken g12..
Maybe i am crazy but it almost seems like MSI is phasing out the wide cards. They are still around of course for the 1080 ti, but with the release of the msi duke and the soon msi gaming x tri trio it looks like they are heading the same direction as asus and evga with longer cards that are thinner. We will know for sure once volta is released but i would hate to adjust a case to 200mm just to know the cards that you are doing that for are no longer being manufactured. I also agree a slimmer case is a prettier case. Once you get small enough i think it is fine to not widely accept all cards or products for the sake of "size."
Well, well i'm this kind of person who bought a non reference gtx 1080ti, as you can overclock it more..
At one time i studied to watercool it...but cerberus-x is too narrow to have a standard waterblock...
HOWEVER for those like me who want to watercool anyway in a narrow case, you can choose nzxt kraken g12 with any asetek v5 aio kit...
SO conclusion, keep a 150mm/160mm width to fit large aircooled gpu or reference model watercool or aftermarket card + kraken g12..
Well on air that is certainly the case with non-reference Pascal GPU, but I've heard on water it is a different story. IRC, Nvidia bins the FE chips higher than the non-reference chips. Besides, there isn't much room for overclocking with Pascal anyway. Also, most cards run nearly identical to each other. Any slight overclock over another card will see minor gains. I understand it was different in the past.
It was indeed different in the past. Maxwell scaled in a near linear fashion with increased voltage. Pascal hits a wall, and does so relatively quickly. Some manufacturers may reserve their best binned chips for their high-end aftermarket cards, but the differences are not so significant overall.
An alternative to a full reference card would be one that has a reference PCB but aftermarket cooler. EVGA typically has one or two SKUs like this.
An alternative to a full reference card would be one that has a reference PCB but aftermarket cooler. EVGA typically has one or two SKUs like this.
I just hope someone doesn't come out with something 1/2 this good and near this size before @Necere finishes.
Honestly, if something even remotely like this comes out, I'm going to have to buy it just to try it.
In then end I'd probably still end up buying this project as well just for the perfection it will surely have.
Honestly, if something even remotely like this comes out, I'm going to have to buy it just to try it.
In then end I'd probably still end up buying this project as well just for the perfection it will surely have.
Closest thing i found is 27L and is a raijintek thetis. All aluminum and tempered glass. Fits a fill size ATX, a 240mm rad, and four fans. It houses two ssd slots and two locations for a 3.5 hard drive. It also uses a full atx power supply. The real kick is it is 89USD. Already purchase and working in one. Quality isn't bad but i know it wont be ncase quality. You could also try to track down a cerebus x which is similar to this case in size.
You are right Rajintek Thetis is a pretty compact atx case..
However like most of rgb+tempered glass, its cooling is mediocre, at best
However like most of rgb+tempered glass, its cooling is mediocre, at best
The Thetis, Styx and Metis require a different configuration philosophy to work.
Items that require a change to address thermals in the case configuration shown in that photo for the Thetis are as follows:
Option A)
1) Change the PSU to face inward, so the fan vent fases the CPU cooler
2) Swap the CPU fans direction to blow towards PSU.
3) Rear case fan swapped to intake
4) Top case fans configuration depends on your fan configuration on the GPU. If GPU fans are intake, use intake on the case fans. If GPU fans are exhaust, you can experiment with either exhaust or intake fan setups.
Option B)
1) Change the PSU to face inward, so the fan vent fases the CPU cooler
2) Swap the CPU fans direction to blow towards PSU.
3) Rear case fan swapped to intake
4) Change the GPU to a reference blower cooler
5) Fans on the top - intake
Items that require a change to address thermals in the case configuration shown in that photo for the Thetis are as follows:
Option A)
1) Change the PSU to face inward, so the fan vent fases the CPU cooler
2) Swap the CPU fans direction to blow towards PSU.
3) Rear case fan swapped to intake
4) Top case fans configuration depends on your fan configuration on the GPU. If GPU fans are intake, use intake on the case fans. If GPU fans are exhaust, you can experiment with either exhaust or intake fan setups.
Option B)
1) Change the PSU to face inward, so the fan vent fases the CPU cooler
2) Swap the CPU fans direction to blow towards PSU.
3) Rear case fan swapped to intake
4) Change the GPU to a reference blower cooler
5) Fans on the top - intake
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The Thetis was my deep backup case If CerbX was going to take a lot more time to hit. It seems like a nice enclosure aesthetically but it has the same airflow concerns as its smaller siblings. @Vittra spells it out very well.
I would most likely look to flip the layout to a "normal " one and basically set it up like CerbX with PSU up front top or even over the mobo at the rear. Use SFX to make it easier. Maybe bottom fans as intake, top AIO cooler , rear exhaust. Just brainstorming.
I would most likely look to flip the layout to a "normal " one and basically set it up like CerbX with PSU up front top or even over the mobo at the rear. Use SFX to make it easier. Maybe bottom fans as intake, top AIO cooler , rear exhaust. Just brainstorming.
Option a or b are completely insane as cpu exhaust air is focused on psu...poor psu...it won’t last long..without saying that fan psu will spin like hell...if it’s properlly managed.
Thetis is mostly missing full front mesh, instead of plain aluminium...with that it would be a kick ass case..
Thetis is mostly missing full front mesh, instead of plain aluminium...with that it would be a kick ass case..
The PSU will be fine. It is used as an exhaust in this scenario and perfectly capable of the situation it would be put in.
I really like the form factor of the Thetis. I like inverted builds because my pc sits to the left of my main monitor. The second monitor is a drawing tablet that sits to my right.
with option A the only exhaust fan is the psu for my situation. I don't feel comfortable with the psu exhausting all the hot air in this case. I have the top of the case as intake because i wanted my gpu to get fresh air so it wouldn't ramp up to much. I also flipped my psu like @MarcParis did so it would not take the hot air from the cpu and burn. Even though it could take it i rather not try cause if you ever had a psu blow on you they take multiple parts with them. I have seen where the cpu and psu are both intake facing each other but i did not want my cpu taking all the air from the psu and vice versa. Not sure if that is even a thing. Option b is out since i don't have a blower card.
Anywho thats why we need ncase and cerebrus to catch up because this is only case like this on this market this small that fits a full sized atx. I need better options!!
Huh, not terrible, currently $79 at newegg with free shipping. I guess I know what I'm going to try and do next weekend. I'll have to think about how I want to do cooling in it. I'm thinking I'll be ditching my 140mm AIO and going all air.
My biggest issue with cooling in my current Lian-Li A05FNB is with keeping my 980Ti cool on air. With the reversed layout on the Thetis, I can actually blow two 120mm fans right on the GPU, or maybe exhaust straight up and out. Not sure which will yield better results overall for the GPU, but using them as intake and just dealing with the heat going elsewhere might be best. My CPU won't really care either way. I'll have to bench test both setups.
Preface: I typed all of this after I finally refreshed this tab and saw Necere's post about replacing the M5 with another design. Then I caught up on the thread and realized the M5 had been revived. So it may be silly to post this now, but I went into typing mode for 15 mins and wrote a dramatic response, so I feel like I should post it now:
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I'm a little late responding to this, but I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything Necere wrote in his long post about the future of the project. I understand where he's coming from, but I disagree.
On the M1-style front - this is an iconic look. It gives the M1 a lot of character. It's very simple and subtle, yet a very strong and defining look. Without it, the M1 would look like a boring box. The rounded style is almost as boring. With respect, W360 has a questionable sense of style. His console-style case concept has a number of noticeable flaws and looks generally unremarkable. You're not designing IKEA furniture, you're designing sleek brushed aluminum computer cases that house $1000+ worth of enthusiast hardware. There has to be a way to reconcile this with a tempered glass window. Perhaps offer both options? If not, I say follow the formula that has worked. Screw the trend, the M1 created its own trend, so follow that!
I understand needing inspiration to work on a project, and that often means something that you personally have use for. That doesn't mean you can't get inspired about a project that follows design principles that excite you. I have an M1 and wouldn't have gotten the M5, yet I was excited for it because it had a lot of the M1's DNA. Namely, the versatility/flexibility of use, space optimization, and rich support in a tiny package. Having an ATX case the size of an industry-standard Mini ITX case that supports dual double radiators would have been a first. With a high level of flexibility, you would have seen lots of different builds -- that in turn gets the community excited and talking about different possibilities, which is like free publicity for the case. This is part of what made the M1 so successful. You can hardly find 2 builds that are the same, everyone makes it their own and then talks about it. It hit all the support people wanted, addressed dust properly, hardly compromised anywhere in a tiny package, and that set it apart. The M5 seemed to follow that formula of success, while the new concept just seems like a boring mesh box. I say either go for a project that excites you and you'd feel proud putting your brand on, or don't bother.
On air cooling vs. liquid cooling -- yes, air cooling is generally sufficient, but for X299 liquid cooling is better, and for a 1080 Ti a liquid cooler drops temperatures 30C, which gives you better boost, and can give you another 5% of performance at lower noise. Also, water cooling is preferable to many as it's cleaner and leaves the motherboard easily accessible. I'd consider the M1 to have better cooling support overall than this new concept. There's nothing wrong with an air-cooling case, it's just a more mundane design (unless it's super tiny) when for a few more liters, the M5 is far more versatile and interesting.
Anyway, that was my rant. Coming from someone who spent a lot of time looking for the perfect case to put my first build in almost 10 years, and finally settled on the M1. I would have put it in an M5 if I was building ATX, but not in this new version. And I couldn't care less about windows or RGB.
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I'm a little late responding to this, but I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything Necere wrote in his long post about the future of the project. I understand where he's coming from, but I disagree.
On the M1-style front - this is an iconic look. It gives the M1 a lot of character. It's very simple and subtle, yet a very strong and defining look. Without it, the M1 would look like a boring box. The rounded style is almost as boring. With respect, W360 has a questionable sense of style. His console-style case concept has a number of noticeable flaws and looks generally unremarkable. You're not designing IKEA furniture, you're designing sleek brushed aluminum computer cases that house $1000+ worth of enthusiast hardware. There has to be a way to reconcile this with a tempered glass window. Perhaps offer both options? If not, I say follow the formula that has worked. Screw the trend, the M1 created its own trend, so follow that!
I understand needing inspiration to work on a project, and that often means something that you personally have use for. That doesn't mean you can't get inspired about a project that follows design principles that excite you. I have an M1 and wouldn't have gotten the M5, yet I was excited for it because it had a lot of the M1's DNA. Namely, the versatility/flexibility of use, space optimization, and rich support in a tiny package. Having an ATX case the size of an industry-standard Mini ITX case that supports dual double radiators would have been a first. With a high level of flexibility, you would have seen lots of different builds -- that in turn gets the community excited and talking about different possibilities, which is like free publicity for the case. This is part of what made the M1 so successful. You can hardly find 2 builds that are the same, everyone makes it their own and then talks about it. It hit all the support people wanted, addressed dust properly, hardly compromised anywhere in a tiny package, and that set it apart. The M5 seemed to follow that formula of success, while the new concept just seems like a boring mesh box. I say either go for a project that excites you and you'd feel proud putting your brand on, or don't bother.
On air cooling vs. liquid cooling -- yes, air cooling is generally sufficient, but for X299 liquid cooling is better, and for a 1080 Ti a liquid cooler drops temperatures 30C, which gives you better boost, and can give you another 5% of performance at lower noise. Also, water cooling is preferable to many as it's cleaner and leaves the motherboard easily accessible. I'd consider the M1 to have better cooling support overall than this new concept. There's nothing wrong with an air-cooling case, it's just a more mundane design (unless it's super tiny) when for a few more liters, the M5 is far more versatile and interesting.
Anyway, that was my rant. Coming from someone who spent a lot of time looking for the perfect case to put my first build in almost 10 years, and finally settled on the M1. I would have put it in an M5 if I was building ATX, but not in this new version. And I couldn't care less about windows or RGB.
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Main issue of your setup is lifespan of the psu...everything will be divided by 2 or 3 (fans, capacitors). Personnally i don’t want to kill my 200€ psu like that.
That completely depends on the CPU load. The air coming from a CPU cooler is by far not as hot as the CPU itself, and if airflow is good, the temperature increase will be minimal, especially with such a massive tower cooler. This setup is completely viable if you're not using a super-cheap PSU.
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