Production Winter One -- 15.6L SFF case, 3090 Support, 3-slot GPUs, dual 280mm radiators, CFD Optimized Design

mxj1

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Sep 13, 2020
105
173
I think I'm just gonna back anything this guy makes at this point. Really amazing job, super excited to get the final product. I don't even care that it'll be empty for a few months still, I'm sticking it on my desk.
Agreed.

I've bought stuff from many of the premium brands. Like op, I'm constantly disappointed in products.

So far, quality wise, Optimus has been the only pc company not to disappoint me. I'm looking forward to adding winter one to the list.
 
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hwytodangerzone

Caliper Novice
Oct 15, 2020
21
40
Ideas on which reservoir / pump combo?

I have a 3080FE with the super short EKWB FE special edition waterblock (206mm) on the way. One of the things that drives me crazy with ITX watercooling is not having a decent sized reservoir. I know I could use an external res to do it, but a lot of times finding a decent space for quick disconnects is tough. This time around the plan was to only use a single 140mm radiator in the bottom and have a decent sized tube res with pump next to the gpu.

But I'm having a hell of a time finding one that seems like it would fit.

Doesn't look like I can do an EKWB flat res next to the gpu ( 312 -207 = 105)

I like the looks of the optimuspc res (that're sold out except the 5.75) but the tube is 70mm thick and I don't think there's that much space between the spine and sidepanel?

Other ideas that I'm missing?
 
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kodek

Caliper Novice
Nov 11, 2020
23
39
Ideas on which reservoir / pump combo?

I have a 3080FE with the super short EKWB FE special edition waterblock (206mm) on the way. One of the things that drives me crazy with ITX watercooling is not having a decent sized reservoir. I know I could use an external res to do it, but a lot of times finding a decent space for quick disconnects is tough. This time around the plan was to only use a single 140mm radiator in the bottom and have a decent sized tube res with pump next to the gpu.

But I'm having a hell of a time finding one that seems like it would fit.

Doesn't look like I can do an EKWB flat res next to the gpu ( 312 -207 = 105)

I like the looks of the optimuspc res (that're sold out except the 5.75) but the tube is 70mm thick and I don't think there's that much space between the spine and sidepanel?

Other ideas that I'm missing?
Check Phanteks Glacier (flat res). With 280 at the bottom only PH-R160 fits, but with only 140 rad you even should be good with PH-R220.
 
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mxj1

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Sep 13, 2020
105
173
Ideas on which reservoir / pump combo?

I have a 3080FE with the super short EKWB FE special edition waterblock (206mm) on the way. One of the things that drives me crazy with ITX watercooling is not having a decent sized reservoir. I know I could use an external res to do it, but a lot of times finding a decent space for quick disconnects is tough. This time around the plan was to only use a single 140mm radiator in the bottom and have a decent sized tube res with pump next to the gpu.

But I'm having a hell of a time finding one that seems like it would fit.

Doesn't look like I can do an EKWB flat res next to the gpu ( 312 -207 = 105)

I like the looks of the optimuspc res (that're sold out except the 5.75) but the tube is 70mm thick and I don't think there's that much space between the spine and sidepanel?

Other ideas that I'm missing?

I use one of these on my work bench, attached to a D5 pump for flushing/filling when necessary. It has a 50mm diameter and it's cheap. Be warned though, it also looks/feels cheap.

If you can get one that fits the height requirements, and you have a pump top with inlet on the top, it should fit.





 

Post-Newt

Average Stuffer
Oct 12, 2020
85
194
Ideas on which reservoir / pump combo?

I have a 3080FE with the super short EKWB FE special edition waterblock (206mm) on the way. One of the things that drives me crazy with ITX watercooling is not having a decent sized reservoir. I know I could use an external res to do it, but a lot of times finding a decent space for quick disconnects is tough. This time around the plan was to only use a single 140mm radiator in the bottom and have a decent sized tube res with pump next to the gpu.

But I'm having a hell of a time finding one that seems like it would fit.

Doesn't look like I can do an EKWB flat res next to the gpu ( 312 -207 = 105)

I like the looks of the optimuspc res (that're sold out except the 5.75) but the tube is 70mm thick and I don't think there's that much space between the spine and sidepanel?

Other ideas that I'm missing?
I use one of these on my work bench, attached to a D5 pump for flushing/filling when necessary. It has a 50mm diameter and it's cheap. Be warned though, it also looks/feels cheap.

If you can get one that fits the height requirements, and you have a pump top with inlet on the top, it should fit.
If my guestimation is correct, then the discontinued EK XRES 100 (unsure what the modern equivalent is) will fit between top&bottom fans/rads. Currently planning on using that and going with a 206mm FE EK block as well. The fittings to make it work will get a bit weird.
 

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
324
1,326
I think I'm just gonna back anything this guy makes at this point. Really amazing job, super excited to get the final product. I don't even care that it'll be empty for a few months still, I'm sticking it on my desk.
Agreed.

I've bought stuff from many of the premium brands. Like op, I'm constantly disappointed in products.

So far, quality wise, Optimus has been the only pc company not to disappoint me. I'm looking forward to adding winter one to the list.

I never once thought Winter Design Co would be compared to Optimus. I absolutely adore their waterblocks, and they're truly a company to strive towards. I feel flattered, and not worthy of it. But I'll do my best to make it so. Thank you for putting that kind of trust in me, and in this project. ❤️

Is there a release date for the black case?

We're still trying to hit our "shipping by the end of January" date, but I will not know for sure until I get a definitive answer from the manufacturer on Monday. We had a meeting on Friday and I pointed things out over the video call, and we discussed ways to resolve the issues. They brought up that they need to double check their timelines, as there's a chance this production run will slip into February, so I'm waiting on a response.

I worry that we may need to push this back *again*. If that happens, I will continue to keep everyone in the loop and be as accurate as possible about the new estimates. Some of these stumbles and bottlenecks are probably due to the pandemic, but some of them are absolutely the pains of building a supply chain, and the first ever large production run of something. Figuring out all these unknown issues is important. The first batch is always the hardest.

Future batches will much smoother than this, and have faster turnaround. I wanted to mention this specifically, because I know some of you who wanted the silver case have been waiting very patiently and graciously. It's totally normal that you're all a bit nervous about any further delays, because of what it means for your order. I completely understand the feeling, and a huge part of why I'm taking care to iron out all issues on this first batch is so that subsequent batches can be delivered with much better turnaround times. The less chance of there being a need to RMA something, the more production capacity is ready to deliver future orders on time.

I also will not take orders for a future batch, unless I know we've got the capacity to deliver existing orders first. This should avoid situations where there are cascading delays over multiple batches. This does mean we'll be a bit constrained on order allocations, but the anti-scalper system, a reservation system (more on this later) and future supply chain improvements should resolve that.
 

G23 Mr Gimp

Caliper Novice
Sep 14, 2020
31
75
I never once thought Winter Design Co would be compared to Optimus. I absolutely adore their waterblocks, and they're truly a company to strive towards. I feel flattered, and not worthy of it. But I'll do my best to make it so. Thank you for putting that kind of trust in me, and in this project. ❤️
As I mentioned on the Discord the other day, the only reason I'm now waiting for Optimus blocks is that it fits the theme you've set here with the case design.
Your attention to detail continues to impress, and the fact that you're so approachable and active in the community as well is something to definitely be applauded.
 

Post-Newt

Average Stuffer
Oct 12, 2020
85
194
Here are some results from a pump block vs. standard block test. This test helped me decide what to do in the W1 so maybe it will help others.

The information below combines two different systems of measurement and weird table formatting. Read at your own risk.

System
MotherboardAsus Strix x570i (newest bios)
CPURyzen 9 3900x (Asus default OC settings)
MemoryG.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GTZR (OC 3400)

Cooling Hardware
RadiatorHWL LX 360
3x FansNF-F12
Pressure GaugeWika 15 psi
Flow MeterVariable Area, 6 psi DP @ 40 gph
2x QDCsAlphacool Eiszapfen
Temp SensorBarrow 10K Stop Fitting (not calibrated)

Control Variables / Setpoints
Fan Speed50%, 776-795 rpm
Flow Rates8 gph (.505 LPM) @ .6 psi DP
16 gph (1.010 LPM) @ 1.4 psi DP
24 gph (1.514 LPM) @ 2.8 psi DP
Ambient Temp70F
Humidity36-38%

Setup and comparison of designs:


Results:
Notes:
  • 50% fan speed & controlled HVAC resulted in approx 29C coolant temp (uncalibrated) for each test.
  • Test configuration created a larger pressure drop than what you'll see with a dual HWL 280GTS setup. Real pump speeds will be lower than shown.
  • CPU stress test via HeavyLoad. Each test ran until cpu and coolant temp flat-lined (15-25 minutes runtime per test)

Pump RPMPump %CPU Temp (C)
8 GPH
Aquanaut - DDC 3.2
1635​
23​
81​
Apogee II - DDC 3.2
1460​
22​
75.4​
Velocity - D5
1650​
37​
71​
16 GPH
Aquanaut - DDC 3.2
2710​
34​
75​
Apogee II - DDC 3.2
2370​
31​
70.1​
Velocity - D5
2790​
58​
68.4​
24 GPH
Aquanaut - DDC 3.2
4020​
47​
73​
Apogee II - DDC 3.2
3400​
41​
69​
Velocity - D5
3850​
78​
67.1​

I wanted to quantify noise, but that turned out to be too much of a challenge. Needless to say the D5 is insanely more quiet than the DDCs on the Aqua and Apogee. The Apogee had significantly more vibration and motor noise than the Aquanaut, but could be due to years of abuse or slight differences between the DDCs. In hindsight I should've swapped the Aqua DDC over to the Apogee before testing.
 
Last edited:

biopunk

Cable-Tie Ninja
Bronze Supporter
Sep 24, 2020
167
229
Here are some results from a pump block vs. standard block test. This test helped me decide what to do in the W1 so maybe it will help others.

The information below combines two different systems of measurement and weird table formatting. Read at your own risk.

System
MotherboardAsus Strix x570i (newest bios)
CPURyzen 9 3900x (Asus default OC settings)
MemoryG.Skill F4-3200C14D-16GTZR (OC 3400)

Cooling Hardware
RadiatorHWL LX 360
3x FansNF-F12
Pressure GaugeWika 15 psi
Flow MeterVariable Area, 6 psi DP @ 40 gph
2x QDCsAlphacool Eiszapfen
Temp SensorBarrow 10K Stop Fitting (not calibrated)

Control Variables / Setpoints
Fan Speed50%, 776-795 rpm
Flow Rates8 gph (.505 LPM) @ .6 psi DP
16 gph (1.010 LPM) @ 1.4 psi DP
24 gph (1.514 LPM) @ 2.8 psi DP
Ambient Temp70F
Humidity36-38%

Setup and comparison of designs:


Results:
Notes:
  • 50% fan speed & controlled HVAC resulted in approx 29C coolant temp (uncalibrated) for each test.
  • Test configuration created a larger pressure drop than what you'll see with a dual HWL 280GTS setup. Real pump speeds will be lower than shown.

Pump RPMPump %CPU Temp (C)
8 GPH
Aquanaut - DDC 3.2
1635​
23​
81​
Apogee II - DDC 3.2
1460​
22​
75.4​
Velocity - D5
1650​
37​
71​
16 GPH
Aquanaut - DDC 3.2
2710​
34​
75​
Apogee II - DDC 3.2
2370​
31​
70.1​
Velocity - D5
2790​
58​
68.4​
24 GPH
Aquanaut - DDC 3.2
4020​
47​
73​
Apogee II - DDC 3.2
3400​
41​
69​
Velocity - D5
3850​
78​
67.1​

I wanted to also quantify noise, but that turned out to be too much of a challenge. Needless to say the D5 is insanely more quiet than the DDCs on the Aqua and Apogee. The Apogee had significantly more vibration and motor noise than the Aquanaut, but could be due to years of abuse or slight differences between the DDCs. In hindsight I should've swapped the Aqua DDC over to the Apogee before testing.
Great work. This confirms my observations regarding the relative performance of Aquanaut and EK Velocity.

CPU pump block combos are definitely convenient but I would avoid them unless there is absolutely no way to fit a standalone pump.
 

WinterCharm

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jan 19, 2019
324
1,326
Just a snippet of the thermal testing for all of you... Air Cooled Winter One, Perforated Panels + Overclocked 3090 FE.

  • Ambient Temp: 68F / 20C
  • OC: +175 Core / +250 Memory / 114% PL
  • Power Draw: 400W
  • GPU Temp: 69C
  • GPU Fan: 1227-1228 RPM
  • Case Fan: 680-690 RPM
  • Fan Config: All-exhaust
  • Fan Type: Noctua NF-A14
Screenshot:

 

KongCav

Efficiency Noob
Apr 27, 2020
7
8
After managing to snag a 6800 XT ref. ed for MSRP on release day (I've been feeling more and more like a lottery winner ever since considering the non-ref. cards are all sold out AND atleast 50% over MSRP in Denmark) and then 2x HWL 280 GTS rads and a Corsair SF750 PSU last week, it looks like I will be building my first custom loop in the Winter One despite the misgivings of my wallet.

However I am a bit uncertain about choice of pump/res. After some reading it appears a D5 would be the best choice but I am not sure I will be able to fit one. The shortest 6800 XT ref. block I've found is the Alphacool Aurora at 262,5mm length and 130mm height. This leaves only 52,5mm for pump/res between the front of the case and the GPU, and I don't see any way to fit a D5 in there.

So second choice then is a DDC, but the whole point of this is to make a silent build and I have not read the best things about CPU blocks with integrated pumps (such as the new-ish Barrow and the old Apogee II, both of which can be hard to get a hold of anyway). Most of the discussion I have seen on here is about using the extremely short PCB of FE 3080/3090 to fit in a D5, so I haven't found a good solution so far. Has anyone with a longer GPU made plans around a stand-alone pump and possibly even reservoir?
 

efegue

Trash Compacter
Sep 19, 2018
47
55
After managing to snag a 6800 XT ref. ed for MSRP on release day (I've been feeling more and more like a lottery winner ever since considering the non-ref. cards are all sold out AND atleast 50% over MSRP in Denmark) and then 2x HWL 280 GTS rads and a Corsair SF750 PSU last week, it looks like I will be building my first custom loop in the Winter One despite the misgivings of my wallet.

However I am a bit uncertain about choice of pump/res. After some reading it appears a D5 would be the best choice but I am not sure I will be able to fit one. The shortest 6800 XT ref. block I've found is the Alphacool Aurora at 262,5mm length and 130mm height. This leaves only 52,5mm for pump/res between the front of the case and the GPU, and I don't see any way to fit a D5 in there.

So second choice then is a DDC, but the whole point of this is to make a silent build and I have not read the best things about CPU blocks with integrated pumps (such as the new-ish Barrow and the old Apogee II, both of which can be hard to get a hold of anyway). Most of the discussion I have seen on here is about using the extremely short PCB of FE 3080/3090 to fit in a D5, so I haven't found a good solution so far. Has anyone with a longer GPU made plans around a stand-alone pump and possibly even reservoir?

My EK-VTX is pretty much silent (DDC like size). I'm very happy with it :)
 

Qzrx

Buried under radiators
Silver Supporter
Bronze Supporter
Dec 29, 2019
74
189
After managing to snag a 6800 XT ref. ed for MSRP on release day (I've been feeling more and more like a lottery winner ever since considering the non-ref. cards are all sold out AND atleast 50% over MSRP in Denmark) and then 2x HWL 280 GTS rads and a Corsair SF750 PSU last week, it looks like I will be building my first custom loop in the Winter One despite the misgivings of my wallet.

However I am a bit uncertain about choice of pump/res. After some reading it appears a D5 would be the best choice but I am not sure I will be able to fit one. The shortest 6800 XT ref. block I've found is the Alphacool Aurora at 262,5mm length and 130mm height. This leaves only 52,5mm for pump/res between the front of the case and the GPU, and I don't see any way to fit a D5 in there.

So second choice then is a DDC, but the whole point of this is to make a silent build and I have not read the best things about CPU blocks with integrated pumps (such as the new-ish Barrow and the old Apogee II, both of which can be hard to get a hold of anyway). Most of the discussion I have seen on here is about using the extremely short PCB of FE 3080/3090 to fit in a D5, so I haven't found a good solution so far. Has anyone with a longer GPU made plans around a stand-alone pump and possibly even reservoir?
You can still use a DDC or MCP50X without having to use an integrated CPU/pump block. Just be sure to turn it down to around 20-50% power and you’ll be fine.

In stress testing my beta unit I saw no change in temperatures between 100% and 25% power on my MCP50X. Production units will use more restrictive radiators than I did but shouldn’t change too much.