Log Why do cases for an APU-Build (no graphics card) Suck?

PVC

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
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Looked around ASUS Support and found (perhaps a newer Chipset?);

AMD Chipset Driver v7.01.08.129 for Windows10, Windows11 64-bit.
Version 7.01.08.129
69.39 MB 2025/01/16

After the new Chipset install I have logged one and a half hours of full duty (Web browsing +Plus HTPC-Duty playing 1.5 hours of video) and no fullspeed fan howl from the power supply. It's as quiet as a church mouse. 🤞

ETA: Dang! I wasted $12 on a new power supply. I'm just kidding. I do want this (fewer cables) version of the power supply in this new build.
 
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ignsvn

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And all three heat sources are sitting at the bottom of my case.
  • The front Gen5 1TB M2 NVMe slot is at the bottom of my case
  • The rear Gen4 4TB M2 NVMe slot (with addon heatsink) is also at the bottom of my case
  • The power supply is also at the bottom of my case
My problem is that the power supply fan (which can be very loud) because it's a server power supply, namely (Delta Electronics DPS-350AB-12 350W Server Switching Power Supply). I have been using HWiNFO to look at the power consumption of this build and I can't find any power consumption issues. So I am zeroing in on exhausting the three heat sources at the bottom/front of my case using cable management (which is a separate/long story), or maybe using a case exhaust fan at the source of heat concentration.

Aaah yeah those gen 4 and gen 5 M2 NVMe can get hot especially on continuous operation. One of the reasons I'm still using gen 3 😅

I can't see clearly from the pic, but I hope the exhaust side of that Flex PSU faces exhaust holes on the case directly. If not, probably you can try to compartmentalize things. For example, use a cardboard to prevent hot air from PSU exhaust reaching other areas of the case.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

King of Cable Management
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Nov 18, 2021
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Aaah yeah those gen 4 and gen 5 M2 NVMe can get hot especially on continuous operation. One of the reasons I'm still using gen 3 😅

I can't see clearly from the pic, but I hope the exhaust side of that Flex PSU faces exhaust holes on the case directly. If not, probably you can try to compartmentalize things. For example, use a cardboard to prevent hot air from PSU exhaust reaching other areas of the case.
I had similar issues, my current method is the indirect cooling I get from the tower coolers I'm using. But I've already been looking into better solutions, as there is still this second m2 drive that is my main data / storage drive, which needs to go to the back of the mainboard. In the K77 Lite, there is zero air flow at that part, so an actively cooled m2 enclosure seems to be the option. There is quite a few with very simple, notebook-fan like solutions, ie. blower style fan.

cu, w0lf.
 

PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
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I can't say for sure. But I don't think I have a "heat" problem? And I don't know how to measure the temperature of the M2 drives. My backside M2 drive is sandwiched between the motherboard and case. I added one of those after-market M2 heatsinks with fins. But that backside M2 drive is usually idle, except for occasional maintenance of file libraries, or HTPC playing video on a TV in another room.

My goal with this APU build is a fast PC for Internet surfing/posting (NO GAMING). In addition to Internet browsing it needs to do double duty as HTPC, playing video on a TV in another room. Both (the video watcher in another room, and Internet browsing) needs to proceed without hiccups!

Right now I have intermittent hiccups! Windows 11 PRO - Freezes for a few seconds (mouse quit working), then maybe the screen goes black for 10 or 15 seconds, Then it recovers. Though, I have done so many updates (including Beta BIOS and revert to previous BIOS, and also C: disk image recovery). So many changes that I don't trust my current setup in this current state.

My next steps (after I get the power supply with less cables) is to start over from a blank/empty C: drive.

In preparation for discussions with ASUS I started using their (Ryzen Master tool) to show temperatures, and here's a summary of my hardware:
  • ASUS ROG Strix B650E-I Gaming WiFi - BIOS 3067 latest (also latest drivers)
  • AMD Ryzen 7 8700G 8-Core, 16-Thread Desktop Processor
  • CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 RAM 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL30 AMD EXPO iCUE Compatible Computer Memory - Gray (CMT32GX5M2B6000Z30K)
  • \C: = Corsair MP700 PRO 1TB M.2 PCIe Gen5 x4 NVMe 2.0 SSD – M.2 2280
  • \D: = TEAMGROUP MP44 4TB SLC Cache Gen4x4 M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0
  • Noctua NH-L9x65, Premium Low-Profile CPU Cooler (65mm, Brown)
 
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PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
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And (as we speak, er,, post) it is working flawlessly and also doing double duty as an HTPC for a Hi-Rez movie on TV in another room with CPU Temp=58 "C and normal quiet fan speed.
 

vinnyoflegend

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Mar 18, 2022
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And (as we speak, er,, post) it is working flawlessly and also doing double duty as an HTPC for a Hi-Rez movie on TV in another room with CPU Temp=58 "C and normal quiet fan speed.
Just wondering if you ever captured power usage in hwinfo when the fan spikes were happening.

Section like this (might look different, mine is from a 5700G system)
 
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PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
235
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No, I have to wait until after the PSU-Fan spike and everything looked normal. Also, the case was not hot to a hand-touch. Maybe next time. But now it has morphed into a stall/black screen/recover instead of PSU-Fan spike??

btw> We can't see your image. I use the three-vertical-dots (all the way to your right) on your SFF.NETWORK post to select (Toggle BB Code) and then I use the normal SFF.NETWORK Insert Image Tool.
 

vinnyoflegend

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Mar 18, 2022
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Whoops, I deleted the image thinking it uploaded but I guess I had to leave it on IMGUR...reuploaded and fixed the URL.

The stall/black screen/recover sounds like a display driver crash/recovery. Check the Windows Event Log Viewer under system logs filtering for "critical" events, look for Event ID 41 or WHEA type events to see if it correlates to times when you have those symptoms.
 

hrh_ginsterbusch

King of Cable Management
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Nov 18, 2021
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I can't say for sure. But I don't think I have a "heat" problem? And I don't know how to measure the temperature of the M2 drives. My backside M2 drive is sandwiched between the motherboard and case. I added one of those after-market M2 heatsinks with fins. But that backside M2 drive is usually idle, except for occasional maintenance of file libraries, or HTPC playing video on a TV in another room.

My goal with this APU build is a fast PC for Internet surfing/posting (NO GAMING). In addition to Internet browsing it needs to do double duty as HTPC, playing video on a TV in another room. Both (the video watcher in another room, and Internet browsing) needs to proceed without hiccups!

Right now I have intermittent hiccups! Windows 11 PRO - Freezes for a few seconds (mouse quit working), then maybe the screen goes black for 10 or 15 seconds, Then it recovers. Though, I have done so many updates (including Beta BIOS and revert to previous BIOS, and also C: disk image recovery). So many changes that I don't trust my current setup in this current state.

My next steps (after I get the power supply with less cables) is to start over from a blank/empty C: drive.

In preparation for discussions with ASUS I started using their (Ryzen Master tool) to show temperatures, and here's a summary of my hardware:
  • ASUS ROG Strix B650E-I Gaming WiFi - BIOS 3067 latest (also latest drivers)
  • AMD Ryzen 7 8700G 8-Core, 16-Thread Desktop Processor
  • CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 RAM 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL30 AMD EXPO iCUE Compatible Computer Memory - Gray (CMT32GX5M2B6000Z30K)
  • \C: = Corsair MP700 PRO 1TB M.2 PCIe Gen5 x4 NVMe 2.0 SSD – M.2 2280
  • \D: = TEAMGROUP MP44 4TB SLC Cache Gen4x4 M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0
  • Noctua NH-L9x65, Premium Low-Profile CPU Cooler (65mm, Brown)

the lm-sensor package available on most linux distros allows for a readout of the installed NVMe temps.

eg. here on my 13700k system with MX Linux 21.3, I get the following read outs:

Code:
nvme-pci-0100
Adapter: PCI adapter
Composite:    +27.9°C  (low  = -20.1°C, high = +89.8°C)
                       (crit = +94.8°C)


nvme-pci-0200
Adapter: PCI adapter
Composite:    +36.9°C  (low  =  -0.1°C, high = +69.8°C)
                       (crit = +89.8°C)

the first one is the FireCuda 510 (1 TB, PCIe 3) and the second is the FireCuda 530 (2 TB, PCIe 4).

Thats with approx 10% load, 22 GB RAM usage (with approx 10ish GB buffer), 3 browsers open with a wagonload of tabs, Twitch stream running in one of them, lotsa sub tasks hovering around in the background, development environment (Geany + Xampp). So, regular disk access, not in idle but not exactly insane loads eithers.

cu, w0lf.
 

PVC

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
235
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Oh! I don't have linux; But I looked more closely at Windows/settings;
Win11 / Settings / System / Storage / Storage Management / Advanced Storage settings / Disks and volumes /
51c \C: = Corsair MP700 PRO 1TB M.2 PCIe Gen5 x4 NVMe 2.0 SSD – M.2 2280
40c \D: = TEAMGROUP MP44 4TB SLC Cache Gen4x4 M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0

Oh Pfft; also HWINFO shows 51C and 40C.

I will give this a rest for a while. My new PSU might arrive tomorrow, or Monday. I will rebuild from a blank C:\ drive.
 
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PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
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I'm fairly certain that the conventional wisdom is that the lack of space or the closer a fan is to case sides increases noise turbulence and makes it more difficult for the fan to pull air in.
In a bow towards (conventional wisdom) I have changed fan direction to exit the case (away from the CPU).

As an additional experiment I removed the side-of-the-case and it breathes a lot easier!! As you can see from the fan support crossbars (X=Exhaust) the airflow direction is out (away from the CPU).

The fan is very close to the side of the case (maybe only 2mm) of clearance. If I put a straight edge against the side of the case it will touch the wire-fan-clip. That's how close it is to the side of the case.

As you look at the (Delta Electronics DPS-350AB-12 350W Server Switching Power Supply) at the bottom of the case, the airflow is towards the front of the case (in other words towards the viewer of this image).

Ah; But even with the side of the case open; It is still doing this Freeze+Black screen cycle.

 
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PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
235
102
HMm; Perhaps I accidentally evoked some overclock mode in BIOS and maybe that could be a reason for the (Freeze+Black screen cycle). TRYNA turn off any and all overclocking-or-AI Overclocking whatever that is?
  • Curve Optimizer = Off
  • Control Mode = Default (as opposed to Auto OC or Manual) - Manual allows adjustment to (CPU Clock Speed, CPU Voltage, APU GFX Clock Speed, APU GFX Voltage)
  • EXPO Mode = Off, Also EXPO (persistent) = Off (as opposed to EXPO1 for Memory Overclocking)
 
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PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
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Adobe Acrobat PDF reader (downloaded directly from Adobe) now comes with unavoidable bloatware. I do prefer a standalone PDF reader because I don't like opening my browser simply to view a PDF file. But I have switched to open PDF via Chrome browser in order to avoid Adobe's bloatware.

ETA: Or maybe not. Anyway it's a new unwelcome decision for me.
 
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PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
235
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Okay Sorry; The accidental overclocking was the likely cause of both;
  • freeze, then black screen, then recover
  • high-speed fan howl from the power supply
Last hour or so was without any problems for the following activity;
Web Browsing activity +Plus HTPC duty watching video in another room;
Avg Temps; CPU=45, MoBo=43, Chipset=59, VRM=47, Memory=41, C:NVMe=48, D:NVMe=40, GPU=41

Just as I posted this my screen took a short "blink" off then back on. But it didn't freeze.
 
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PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
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Whoops, now I got stuck No Internet Connection for installing Windows.

I decided to start over fresh with a new Install of Windows. But now, MS Win11 install cannot connect to the Internet using a WIRED ETHERNET connection to my modem/router. It seems that I may need an AMD driver that I don't know where to find? Any ideas? Is there a way to reset my B650E-ITX back to original?

Tried CLR CMOS. Still stuck at Win11 Install "Let's connect you to a network" - Install Driver.
Will try ASUS support.
 
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vinnyoflegend

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Mar 18, 2022
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I’m not sure mobo you have exactly, is it the ROG Strix b650 itx? But most current Ethernet chipsets work out of the box with Win11. That ASUS one has Intel i225/226 I believe.

Secondly, if you can skip that step it will be easier to see what’s going on in device manager if you can get past the rest of setup.
 

rfarmer

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Jul 7, 2017
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Whoops, now I got stuck No Internet Connection for installing Windows.

I decided to start over fresh with a new Install of Windows. But now, MS Win11 install cannot connect to the Internet using a WIRED ETHERNET connection to my modem/router. It seems that I may need an AMD driver that I don't know where to find? Any ideas? Is there a way to reset my B650E-ITX back to original?

Tried CLR CMOS. Still stuck at Win11 Install "Let's connect you to a network" - Install Driver.
Will try ASUS support.
Check this forum and do what it says in the first post, lets you bypass the connect to internet in Windows setup.
 

PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
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I couldn't get that far. ASUS support gave me two drivers and before selecting unallocated space to install Win11, click Load driver instead and load these two drivers;
  • DRV_WiFi_MediaTek_SZ-TSD_W11_64_V3401063_20241225R
  • DRV_LAN_Intel_I225_I226_SZ-TSD_W11_64_V2143_20240924R
Now I can proceed and use the OOBE (Out Of Body Experience) thingamajig 😜
 

PVC

Airflow Optimizer
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Jul 12, 2020
235
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And, after installing new LAN driver I was able to proceed with (installing Win11). Though with this extra step of installing the Lan driver it took a while to get the OOBE\procedure done at the right time. 😜
 

PVC

Airflow Optimizer
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
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  • Rebuilt from clean/erased C: drive
  • So far - So good / Nice cool temps / No excess fan noise
  • I did not yet receive the fewer wires PSU. For some odd reason USPS is sending the (Delta Electronics DPS-350AB-12 350W Server PSU) roundabout to OPA LOCKA FL. But that's good. Now I know there was no problem with my existing PSU.
  • Important safety Tip: Don't be messing around with auto-overclock settings!. It ain't automatic! 🤪
 
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