Log Why do cases for an APU-Build (no graphics card) Suck?

[vinnyoflegend]

Yeah I wouldn't be thrilled with this either. It's one the cases I think where AMD drivers are still not up to par, though it's probably partly Chrome/Chromium's fault. Because you could switch to Firefox and everything would be fine too.

That flag would only affect chrome. If you're getting weirdness in notepad I don't know what that could be.

This thread suggests it could be a Windows issue that could affect NVIDIA GPUs as well and suggests disabling MPO instead of using a chrome flag.
IMO, that's much more intrusive (and you can see some comments of more adverse affect disabling MPO, i.e. big fps drops in some games)

 

[PVC]

That flag would only affect chrome. If you're getting weirdness in notepad I don't know what that could be.

Weirdness in notepad was fixed by using Settings Keyboard = United States QWERTY and not United States International QWERTY so I had installed Windows with the wrong selection. Fixed it in Windows Settings.

I have been playing with the Zen Browser. I will try that and stop using chrome for a while, and for good measure switch that setting for Chrome back to default, just in case.

 

[PVC]

Yep, I got my snappy-fast browsing back by using the (Zen Browser - GitHub) instead of Chrome!!
I believe the Zen Browser is based on the Firefox Browser. Though, it's a little difficult getting used to Zen's controls/GUI.

But now I'm happy again!! Woo-hoo!! We will see how it goes from here.

Also, image backup of my entire C: Drive (Gen 5 NVMe) including documents take less than 30 seconds!

 

[PVC]

Inside of Zen is Firefox; Open Tabs are down the left side; Bookmarks are horizontal across the top. But the Bookmarks hide unless you mouse over the top border line.

 

[PVC]

I used the (AMD Ryzen Master) to set my memory speed
-from the default of 2400=4800 MHz
-to my memory's rated speed of 3000=6000 Mhz

AMD Ryzen Master has a save & stress test tool which applies the changes and runs a stress test. During the Stress test, the power reading for EDC (CPU) turned red and reached 93%. That by itself was not too alarming because it's a stress test. However, here's a reading below of 45% when idle.

So I think I will get that Overtek 600W Flex ATC PSU (with the regular fan) for this 8700G build fitted into the (on order - arriving soon) slightly larger A09P case.

,,and then reuse this existing Delta 350W PSU to reassemble my existing A09-case with previous IBM build.

 

[vinnyoflegend]

I assume you're looking at the PSU for its quietness at sustained load (1.3v@ 150 A = 195W+ aka noisy Delta PSU levels). You're still not near 600W and certainly not when idle even if EDC floats around 45% (this isn't unusual) as an idle CPU will be pulling 45% EDC amps against a lower voltage.

My AM4 5700G sits around 45 amps EDC (45-75% of my max 95A I configured). If look at my voltages, it varies from .113v to 1.31v. That's 5W to 58W depending on what tasks it's doing. If I run a stress test. EDC goes to max 95A, at 1.298v, a max raw draw of 124W to hit my target PPT 88)

Red is just what Ryzen Master color codes. The red just means it was nearing the peak allowed under the PBO (or the disabled PBO perhaps in your case), of 150A EDC. The 8700G caps out at 150W. (assuming you max out PPT, TDC, and EDC values and don't undervolt/negative curve). If you were to override the +Mhz clock and cool the CPU further (along the lines of a 240mm AIO) you might see it go a little higher to maybe 170W.

ref power measurements:

AMD Ryzen 7 8700G Review More TDP and NPU

The AMD Ryzen 7 8700G brings Zen 4, RDNA 3 Radeon 780M graphics, and a new AMD XDNA AI NPU together into a new APU

www.servethehome.com

thread about ppt, tdc, edc with much more power hungry AM5 CPUs:

Re: Need configuration help with AMD Ryzen 9 7950X

Hi, Is there a way to set all of those from AMD Rayzen Master or do I have to do them from BIOS? Can you please share your fan control settings as well? The default settings is creating noise and I could not find an optimal way to set this up. Thanks

community.amd.com

ref default PPT/TDC/EDC settings for different TDP:

https://overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_eco_mode_guide_for_am5/

 

[PVC]

Whew! That was a lot of information to digest. Okay, since this APU build is working perfectly for me now (using a $10 Delta 350W PSU), then I think I will just buy another $10-or-so (+ shipping) = $20-or-so Delta 350W PSU.

• one for this Ryzen 7 8700G APU build with A09P slightly longer case
• and the another for reassembling my A09 Mini ITX Desktop Core i5-12600K

I was contemplating using Eco Mode but can't find any (manually entered numbers) for the Ryzen 7 8700G?

 

[vinnyoflegend]

The Overtek PSUs are definitely nice, I would just consider the 450w rather than the 600. But yeah, if you're not hitting the previous noise levels or heat levels of concerns, you can always hold off.

The very last link had the reference settings. AMD lists the CPU at TDP of 45w-65w, with 65w being the default. According to the overclock.net link these are the stock values for PBO for AM5



From Ryzen master, it looks like you are already set for a 65w TDP. PPT 88, TDC 75, EDC 150.

If you mean 45w TDP for ecomode, it would just be dropping all those values slightly. Someone calculated this based on the above:

see https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/eco-mode-possible-for-65w-cpus-on-am5.2619067/

And came up with PPT 61, TDC 59 , EDC 130

 

[ignsvn]

Whew! That was a lot of information to digest. Okay, since this APU build is working perfectly for me now (using a $10 Delta 350W PSU), then I think I will just buy another $10-or-so (+ shipping) = $20-or-so Delta 350W PSU.

• one for this Ryzen 7 8700G APU build with A09P slightly longer case
• and the another for reassembling my A09 Mini ITX Desktop Core i5-12600K

I was contemplating using Eco Mode but can't find any (manually entered numbers) for the Ryzen 7 8700G?

I'm using Ryzen 5600 on 65w TDP PBO.

I reduce my PPT to about 75 or 80 I think (I can't really remember the exact number), because the CPU fan curve is a bit annoying with 88.

It already feels a tiiiiiny bit slow at times, I don't think you want to go to eco mode (assuming eco mode is at 45 watt).

 

[PVC]

From Ryzen master, it looks like you are already set for a 65w TDP. PPT 88, TDC 75, EDC 150.

I don't think you want to go to eco mode (assuming eco mode is at 45 watt).

Yep, I am right where I want to be at 65w. This machine is perfect! I love it!

For the addon duty of (HTPC/video playing on a TV in another room) the graphics are Wayyyy Better!!! It was skippy for a while, so I changed the OLED TV connection from WiFi to an Ethernet cable connection, and that was fixed. We were watching a video and it stopped in the middle of the movie. Very annoying! The problem was my PC power settings was shutting down my computer. Fixed that too. Duh.

She is enjoying the heck out of these better graphics on the big OLED screen! So my excess spending on new technology is automatically forgiven.

I really appreciate the help with this combination APU/HTPC build! Thank you (all of you)!

 

[PVC]

Whoops. Double post accident!

 

[PVC]

Yours doesn't seem quite as bad since it's something recovering but if you have Ryzen master installed you could try lowering the clock of the integrated GPU. If it stops the black screen/recovery then it sounds like an RMA might be in your future.

STATUS UPDATE:
I can force the freeze to happen with a GitGub procedure that I know will produce a freeze! It freezes for 10 or 20 seconds and then when it comes back the (Task Manager>Performance) shows a 100% spike on the AMD Radeon 780M graphics (see image below). Yes I know that (a GitHub procedure) doesn't seem to be a fair test. This is just a quick test-method for producing the freeze. -- But are you saying that somehow (even though "your" AMD Radeon 780M graphics is maxed out at 100%, this is likely a Microsoft OS problem?

Response and Service Request History: This behavior may indicate potential iGPU fault. Please claim warranty on the processor if it’s under warranty:

AMD Warranty Services: Thank you for submitting your warranty claim. Your claim number is ???????

Also: My Amazon A09P case after a 5-or-6 week wait was deemed lost-in-space??? So I ordered another from AliExpress and this build is still (over- stuffed) into the slightly snaller A09 case.

 

[vinnyoflegend]

What's the Github procedure? Curious what it is that manages to consume 100% GPU

 

[PVC]

What's the Github procedure? Curious what it is that manages to consume 100% GPU

I got my RMA shipping label today. Now I have to tear down this build.
Prefer not discuss GitHub procedures in public???

 

[PVC]

The answer/response to my query (in Red italics below) about the A09P case was;
"The one you need is out of stock".
Oh well, (and at least for now) I will rebuild into the smaller A09 case, Dang!

I bought one A09P ITX case (which is slightly bigger than the A09 ITX case) from Amazon. After 30 days the order changed from shipped to not available. I bought a second A09P ITX case (which is slightly bigger than the A09 ITX case from AliExpress. After another 30 day wait, that order changed from shipped to not available and the seller went out of business. Can you shed any light on availability of the A09P case, or maybe I am wasting my time trying to order that slightly larger case? If I use the smaller A09 case then I have to remove the front USB ports from the case in order to make room for cable management.​

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

I got my RMA shipping label today. Now I have to tear down this build.
Prefer not discuss GitHub procedures in public???

My guess is, that its probably some Github-related build action. Their own client supports a lot github-specific, non-standard stuff, that most certainly may lead to high CPU load.

Other option: Fetching some source code from github and compiling it, eg. Firefox or Chromium - a classic method to push the CPU load to 100%. For example, GamersNexus use a specific Chromium build process to test the efficiency of CPUs (wattage usage, time till finished compiling etc).

cu, w0lf.

 

[vinnyoflegend]

My guess is, that its probably some Github-related build action. Their own client supports a lot github-specific, non-standard stuff, that most certainly may lead to high CPU load.

Other option: Fetching some source code from github and compiling it, eg. Firefox or Chromium - a classic method to push the CPU load to 100%. For example, GamersNexus use a specific Chromium build process to test the efficiency of CPUs (wattage usage, time till finished compiling etc).

cu, w0lf.

w0lf, yes, CPU I would understand, but you can see what PVC was showing was that his iGPU (the 780m in the 8700G) was what was spiking (which if it was a rocm or other GPU driven operation would make sense).

Also, last update I heard from PVC, the RMA of the CPU resolved the issue (no spike under same operation) so there may be some kind of defect in these APUs like some of the other AMD forum discussion suggest.

I wonder if Chrome could work now without issue too...

 

[ignsvn]

STATUS UPDATE:
I can force the freeze to happen with a GitGub procedure that I know will produce a freeze! It freezes for 10 or 20 seconds and then when it comes back the (Task Manager>Performance) shows a 100% spike on the AMD Radeon 780M graphics (see image below). Yes I know that (a GitHub procedure) doesn't seem to be a fair test. This is just a quick test-method for producing the freeze. -- But are you saying that somehow (even though "your" AMD Radeon 780M graphics is maxed out at 100%, this is likely a Microsoft OS problem?

Yea software developer here. I'm also curious to know about this Gitub procedure.

 

[ignsvn]

My guess is, that its probably some Github-related build action. Their own client supports a lot github-specific, non-standard stuff, that most certainly may lead to high CPU load.

Other option: Fetching some source code from github and compiling it, eg. Firefox or Chromium - a classic method to push the CPU load to 100%. For example, GamersNexus use a specific Chromium build process to test the efficiency of CPUs (wattage usage, time till finished compiling etc).

cu, w0lf.

But what I understand is that Github action runs on Github's side right? Not on user's PC.

So could this be probably a git (instead of Github) procedure?

 

[PVC]

But what I understand is that Github action runs on Github's side right? Not on user's PC.

It runs on my PC. Everyone wants to know what Github procedure, including hardware manufacturers. I don't want to out any Github coders, so let me describe this in a generic way by saying it's a simple Github procedure that displays the progress of a download by showing a series of shaded lines with the lines increasing in size/width to represent your download progress as percent completed.

The takeaway (I believe) is that when your AMD Radeon 780M GPU performance pegs 100%, then that indicates a hardware error! And in my case, the hardware replacement cured everything!!! I no longer have to jump thru hoops tryna solve any non-existent issues with my computer. Everything works perfectly after replacing the one hardware component.

See this thread → How I fixed my Ryzen 7 8700G Black-Screen-Freeze issue