Log Finally found a case/SKTC A09 3.8L for my Mini-ITX APU-Builds/no graphics card!

PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
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Jul 12, 2020
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Another delay. The CPU Cooler (Noctua NH-L12 Ghost S1 Edition) was missing a part. Sometimes I buy used parts when the parts come from Amazon Warehouse. But this time I got dinged.

 
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PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
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Jul 12, 2020
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It won't Post/Boot!

GIGABYTE Z690I AORUS ULTRA LITE DDR4 (rev. 1.0) with Core i5-12600K won't Post/Boot.

  1. Power supply fan starts up for 30 seconds or so then idles, no beeps, no video signal.
  2. After power supply has been idle for a minute-or-so, power supply fan starts up a repeat cycle.
  3. Repeats.

Won't Post using rectangular frame CPU mount/snug
Won't Post using rectangular frame CPU mount/only-slightly-snug
Won't Post using original CPU mount
Won't Post using Q-Flashed BIOS to motherboard's latest/f20a
Won't Post using only the first memory slot
Won't Post using no memory at all

I am thinking it is either the motherboard or the CPU. I bought the Core i5-12600K used from the same source as the used (missing part/Noctua NH-L12 Ghost S1 Edition) so I returned the CPU this morning.

I plan to get a new CPU and go from there. Any suggestions or hints about similar problems?

ETA: Also plan to test using a mainstream Seasonic 500w power supply.
 
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PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
172
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I suspect that my power supply is inadequate for the i5 12600K 125W TDP and will be switching to the 65W lower TDP processor:
  • Intel Core i5 12500 65W TDP
  • Intel Core i5 12600K 125W TDP
Maybe I will be sacrificing 10% or so single core performance and maybe 35% multi core. But I don't use the extra power anyway. Both have (UHD Graphics 770) which is what I seek for this APU build.
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
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I suspect that my power supply is inadequate for the i5 12600K 125W TDP and will be switching to the 65W lower TDP processor:
  • Intel Core i5 12500 65W TDP
  • Intel Core i5 12600K 125W TDP
Maybe I will be sacrificing 10% or so single core performance and maybe 35% multi core. But I don't use the extra power anyway. Both have (UHD Graphics 770) which is what I seek for this APU build.
Is that the 350W Flex/1U PSU listed in the OP? If that's the case, then recycle that piece of garbage and get a proper quality PSU. Even if that CPU was to cause major transient power spikes, there should be no way whatsoever for it to cause shutdowns on a 350W PSU, or cause the system to not POST. While current generation GPUs do see major transient power spikes far above their rated power limits, CPUs do not, at least not to any kind of comparable degree. Did you ever test the build with a different PSU?
 

PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
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Thanks for your reply. I appreciate another viewpoint! I didn't think about testing the build with another PSU until after I returned the CPU. Now I am CPU-less and cannot do that test.

Yep, it's the same $12 PSU in the OP; Delta DPS-350AB-12A/Intel FHJT350HEPS 350W Power Supply It's a server PSU and not designed for home computers. I like the small dimensions that fit in a case designed for a FLEX Power supply.
  • Dimensions: LxWxH 15x8x4cm, 150x60x40mm, (6" x 2.5" x 1.5" - approximate inches)
IF using a proper quality PSU means a bigger PSU (even slightly bigger) then I don't have room in this case (see one of my previous images below). My main goal for this APU build is using two NVMe 4.0 Gen4 PCIe M.2 2280 drives for image backup/restore. I can get that with 65W-TDP or 125W TDP. So I am going to stick with the plan for switching to a 65W TDP CPU.

 

PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
172
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I got the new Processor (i5-12500 65W-TDP) and tested in my build. Nothing! same as the previous Processor (i5-12600K 3.70/4.90 GHz, 10/16 cores/threads, DDR4-3200, 125W TDP). So I switched to bench-testing with another PSU.

Next; Bench Testing with another PSU from an old Tower. The PSU is a Seasonic Mi2 500W ATX12V working PSU. I routed the 24 Pin and 8 Pin cables from the tower to the new-build (Z690I AORUS ULTRA LITE DDR4). Also unplugged/replugged (Power-SW and Power-Led) into new build. Connected Audio-out, USB-Keyboard, and Display-Port to rear panel.

When I press the power sw I get Power-led illuminated, and the CPU Cooler fan spins. But nothing else. It will not post. Pressing DELete key does nothing. No audio-out beeps.

After two Processors and two PSUs I am guessing it is the Motherboard???

 

aromachi

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Dec 18, 2019
136
129
I've been using this PSU for a couple years now, no issues. Don't let people talk you out of going for "cheaper" parts. Some people have crazy anxiety about not having the "best", mainstream stuff. Good on you for not being like that. Following.

The first flex I got from aliexpress was a dud. It happens. Get your money back and try a different one.
 
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aromachi

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Dec 18, 2019
136
129
Make sure you aren’t over tightening your cooler and flexing the mobo. That also causes post failures.
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
2,213
I've been using this PSU for a couple years now, no issues. Don't let people talk you out of going for "cheaper" parts. Some people have crazy anxiety about not having the "best", mainstream stuff. Good on you for not being like that. Following.

The first flex I got from aliexpress was a dud. It happens. Get your money back and try a different one.
I don't know how good advice that is - while there are absolutely people far too gung-ho about PSU quality about there, the problem with a bad PSU is that it can kill literally every component in your PC if it goes bang. And while the PSU space isn't the wild west of 15+ years ago, there are still a lot of what JonnyGuru used to call gutless wonders out there, especially from no-name brands, with wildly overblown specs.

I don't know the specs of your build, but I'd be wary of using that PSU you linked simply due to it being dual rail, delivering 11A on each 12V rail - that's just 132W per rail, and just ~260W total on 12V, rather than the 350W promised (given that PCs in recent years leave 5V and 3.3V to USB and m.2 and essentially nothing else). That's enough for a reasonable CPU and GPU, sure, but care needs to be taken to not common the rails (which won't kill the PSU, but can cause weird behaviour leading to instability or the PSU dying prematurely), and to not push either rail too hard.

Sounds to me like your build is sufficiently low power and you happened upon a decent quality unit - but that doesn't mean that everyone will be that lucky.
 
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aromachi

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Dec 18, 2019
136
129
I don't know how good advice that is - while there are absolutely people far too gung-ho about PSU quality about there, the problem with a bad PSU is that it can kill literally every component in your PC if it goes bang. And while the PSU space isn't the wild west of 15+ years ago, there are still a lot of what JonnyGuru used to call gutless wonders out there, especially from no-name brands, with wildly overblown specs.

I don't know the specs of your build, but I'd be wary of using that PSU you linked simply due to it being dual rail, delivering 11A on each 12V rail - that's just 132W per rail, and just ~260W total on 12V, rather than the 350W promised (given that PCs in recent years leave 5V and 3.3V to USB and m.2 and essentially nothing else). That's enough for a reasonable CPU and GPU, sure, but care needs to be taken to not common the rails (which won't kill the PSU, but can cause weird behaviour leading to instability or the PSU dying prematurely), and to not push either rail too hard.

Sounds to me like your build is sufficiently low power and you happened upon a decent quality unit - but that doesn't mean that everyone will be that lucky.
He’s right, make sure you get what’s right for your system. I did, and it has worked great for me.
 
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PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
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Thanks for the advice!!

Question: Should I RMA-Request the Gigabyte motherboard NOW,, or wait for an answer to the trouble-ticket below? I opened a trouble-ticket/question with Gigabyte about the motherboard problem. Should I wait on the open question, or go for the RMA?

ETA> I just RMA'd the motherboard. Seems to be the path of least resistance.
  • The motherboard won't post/boot
  • I am using the stock LGA1700 CPU clamp
  • I have tried two different CPUs
  • I have tried two different PSUs
I can use Q-Flash-Plus to flash-BIOS to both BIOS versions that are listed on the Gigabyte website. I have tried using both of these BIOS settings:
  • mb_bios_z690i-a-ultra-lite-d4_f1
  • mb_bios_z690i-a-ultra-lite-d4_f20a
 
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PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
172
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Okay, I took my new (questionable) Delta PSU and connected the PSU to my previous Build, this one linked below. My heart sank when it didn't power up.😨 But I had forgotten to plug in the wall power on the empty case. After that, it works fine. I processed this image, and am replying to you on the (questionable) Delta PSU just like in this image. I am also leery of Ali Express Flex PSUs. But I believe these used Delta PSU are high quality PSUs pull from servers. Though, I could be wrong.

 
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Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
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Okay, I took my new (questionable) Delta PSU and connected the PSU to my previous Build, this one linked below. My heart sank when it didn't power up.😨 But I had forgotten to plug in the wall power on the empty case. After that, it works fine. I processed this image, and am replying to you on the (questionable) Delta PSU just like in this image. I am also leery of Ali Express Flex PSUs. But I believe these used Delta PSU are high quality PSUs pull from servers. Though, I could be wrong.

Those used server Deltas are good PSUs, the problem is that many of them are used-up good PSUs, with very little life left in some of their components. And it's impossible to tell which is which. If refurbished well, they can be fantastic though.
 

PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
172
88
Make sure you aren’t over tightening your cooler and flexing the mobo. That also causes post failures.
GigaByte said: We have recently received your RMA# USA-####### for service, however our repair technicians noticed severe damage to the CPU socket. To replace the CPU socket there will be a $100.00 repair charge.

 
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PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
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  1. So I will try to proceed with caution about applying too much torque. First of all I will eliminate the rectangular CPU clamp, at least until I can get a post/boot.
  2. Next I have a question about how much to tighten the NH-L12 Ghost S1 Edition CPU cooler. I have two different sets of Noctua instructions (see below). When I am tightening and after several turns on each screw I can begin to feel the slip-slip on each side when it reaches the spring tension.

Then I continue until it stops. Perhaps I applied extra pressure to ensure that it has stopped. I will eliminate the step of applying extra pressure to ensure that it has stopped.

Any other suggestions?
 

msystems

King of Cable Management
Apr 28, 2017
624
1,100
Did it ever boot up before prior to using the Ghost cooler? Indeed that's pretty severe damage and I'm shocked
 

PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
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The Ghost cooler was the first cooler installed and it never booted.

The mobo needs to wiggle into the case first, due to the small case. You even need to remove the memory sticks before wiggling the mobo into the case. Then install the memory sticks, and finally install the cooler. After you drop the cooler into place, then you need to blindly screw the cooler to the mobo because the large cooler fins hide everything.

I was using the instructions on the right above that said "Caution: Tighten the screws until they stop." I thought that meant be sure to tighten all the way until they stop, otherwise why would they advise caution relative to when the screws stop. Now the instructions on the left say "gently".

Still waiting on the mobo RMA repair.
 

Valantar

Shrink Ray Wielder
Jan 20, 2018
2,201
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You don't get bent pins like that from overtightening a cooler - if that was the cause, then there would be larger fields of smashed-down pins. The CPU being in the socket prevents damage like that from happening as it rests flat across all pins, so that damage must have happened at some point when the CPU was not installed. That being said, it's also a weird damage pattern, with some pins clearly lifted/bent the opposite way of their intended orientation (left bottom and top, two along the right edge), while on the left edge there are at lest two pairs of pins that look to have been bent/smashed down. Speculating as to what caused it is rather meaningless, but I don't see how that damage could possibly come from overtightening a cooler or mounting frame.

I was using the instructions on the right above that said "Caution: Tighten the screws until they stop." I thought that meant be sure to tighten all the way until they stop, otherwise why would they advise caution relative to when the screws stop. Now the instructions on the left say "gently".
I don't see that as a meaningful difference outside of just reminding people to generally be careful around sensitive electronics - don't just ram things in there, don't apply excessive force, don't overtighten screws, etc. "Gently" tightening screws until they stop is IMO just a reminder to take care when tightening, and accept a stop as a stop, rather than cranking it extra to ensure it's settled or some such impulse.
 
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PVC

Cable-Tie Ninja
Original poster
Jul 12, 2020
172
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Thanks for that extra clarification. And, I do not handle mobos with unprotected pins except for a few seconds to gently insert the CPU into the socket with pin1 alignment. So it remains a mystery. I will be happy (even with the $100 extra) when and if it boots after the RMA. Going on third week of the RMA process.

Hmm; My eyes are not young anymore, so my unaided eyes couldn't see the pin damage before or after? But, how are motherboard boxes sealed? Mine just had a clear/round/plasticky 3/4-inch diameter sticker that taped two edges of the box together.