Log Why do cases for an APU-Build (no graphics card) Suck?

[PVC]

Going with InWin Chopin Max (total cost $1325) - Case is only 3.3 inches wide!
Also scrapped the old-school SATA Drive in favor of large capacity 4TB NVMe drive.

Pfft! That won't work. The (InWin Chopin Max) doesn't have enough power;

 

[PVC]

New Plan;

1. Case - A09-Goodisory-Black-Mini-ITX → Link
2. PSU - Flex 600W Modular Power Supply → Link

I have built with this small A09-Goodisory case before and I believe that the Flex 600W Modular Power Supply will work in this case because they are listed as Frequently Bought together on a popular website.

My Power estimates:
8700G CPU 88 watts
Motherboard 80 watts
2 M.2 or 2.5" SSDs 18 watts
1 CPU Fans (120 mm) 6 watts
Total Estimate: 192 watts
Recommended Power Supply Wattage for ROG STRIX B650E-I = 350 watts
350 watts + 250-or-so-buffer/slack = 600 watts

Any advice? Any Suggestions? Maybe a Flex 500W would be enough? It's an APU Build. I will not be adding any additional components, except for occasionally plugging in some USB devices.

 

[Mark13]

If you want to use a SFX PSU at 5.9 liters I can recommend the Yiluka YLK 01 APU PC Case.
See my review here on the forum from 2/13/2021. Was expensive to ship to USA. Using a Noctua L12 Ghost Edition with the supplied bottom fan removed and a Noctua A12x25 fan installed on top of the cooler in downdraft orientation as the only installed fan is very quiet, as the case is tall enough that there is no intake noise due to the total cooler fan height being 91mm, and approximaely 9mm from the top of the case. Noctua will provide fan clips for a 25mm thick fan free of charge with proof of purchase of this cooler. Tried the 30mm thick Phanteks T30 fan, but it generated intake noise being 5mm closer to the top panel.

 

[vinnyoflegend]

Any advice? Any Suggestions? Maybe a Flex 500W would be enough? It's an APU Build. I will not be adding any additional components, except for occasionally plugging in some USB devices.

I think you're overestimating the motherboard power use, unless you plan to use a 75w PCI-E card, most of its "draw" will be on behalf of the CPU. 400-500W should be more than sufficient for an APU build. I was able to run inefficient Haswell 4790k (about 100w sustained draw + nvme + 2.5" + 75w gpu) just fine on 300w (Seasonic flex gold) and 350w (Delta flex that you previously mentioned)

 

[PVC]

Success!! Well some measure of success. I will explain below. Thanks @vinnyoflegend Yep, I think you are right!

Meanwhile, I tore down my previous build because there is no need to order another A09 case. I already have one from that previous build. And, guess what. It works with the trusty old $10 used Delta Server-Power-Supply. Well, at least it booted into BIOS.

More later, I need time to recover from tearing apart my main-everyday-PC.

Oh, It easily fits the A09 case with room to spare.

 

[PVC]

1. Up and running.
2. It's fast!
3. Extra room leftover in the A09 case (gained about 10mm to 12mm extra CPU clearance).
4. Runs fine on the Delta Server-Power-Supply.

Wait? I may have installed the fan backwards. It should blow down towards the CPU, right? It is currently blowing up and outside the case.

 

[PVC]

Wait? I may have installed the fan backwards. It should blow down towards the CPU, right? It is currently blowing up and outside the case.

Yep, it runs much cooler with the fan blowing down on the CPU and also cooling other components, and especially keeping the power supply cool. This Delta power supply is built for servers, and it can really make a loud howling sound when it powers the fan at full speed (which is what happened every 10 or 15 minutes) with the fan direction away from CPU. The new fan direction (down toward the CPU) fixed this problem!

Also, I am going to install a beefier/thicker Noctua Fan (my old-discontinued NF-A9) after I can find the proper fan clips. emailing Noctua support.

Not much room for cable-management. The front case I/O ports (2-USB, mic, headphones) had to be removed. That's not as bad as you might imagine because I can see the Led-Lighted memory sticks through the holes. It's kinda cool

 

[vinnyoflegend]

Yep, it runs much cooler with the fan blowing down on the CPU and also cooling other components, and especially keeping the power supply cool. This Delta power supply is built for servers, and it can really make a loud howling sound when it powers the fan at full speed (which is what happened every 10 or 15 minutes) with the fan direction away from CPU. The new fan direction (down toward the CPU) fixed this problem!

Also, I am going to install a beefier/thicker Noctua Fan (my old-discontinued NF-A9) after I can find the proper fan clips. emailing Noctua support.

Not much room for cable-management. The front case I/O ports (2-USB, mic, headphones) had to be removed. That's not as bad as you might imagine because I can see the Led-Lighted memory sticks through the holes. It's kinda cool

That's interesting, on my 4790k build in the A09 with the same PSU, I got slightly better temperatures with it pulling air away, at least when I was using a Scythe Big Shuriken 2 revB. though it did make for some unpleasant turbulence Regarding the PSU, I only saw it rev up the PSU fan on loads above 150w which didn't really happen unless I ran it in another case with a discrete GPU. I guess it would make sense if it had a load or temperature threshold.

If you like the case and want room for front I/O you should check out the A09P variant, the 20mm front face makes all the difference in the world with some breathing space for those.
Here's the 4790k with an ID Cooling IS-60 EVO in the A09P, different PSU in this pic though, Seasonic SSP-300SUG
Oh I forgot to add that I've been able to slap a 2.5" SATA SSD before right between the PCIE slot and the PSU before too. Gets a bit warmer but didn't present any issues.

 

[PVC]

check out the A09P variant

That is very interesting. Thanks!! I think I will have to get the A09P and then rebuild my old PC into the old A09.

btw> I can't access your image

I've been able to slap a 2.5" SATA SSD before right between the PCIE slot and the PSU before too.

I think I am done with old school spinning drives, and also done with SATA drives because they are too big compared to NVMe and have too many cables (2 cables per drive). My new build has (1TB NVMe C: for Windows and 4TB NVMe for backup and HTTP).

 

[ignsvn]

My Power estimates:
8700G CPU 88 watts
Motherboard 80 watts
...

Wait wait.. how is your power requirement so big. For example, your motherboard power usage is estimated at 80 watts?

 

[PVC]

Wait wait.. how is your power requirement so big

Because I'm a dummy when it comes to estimating power requirements, And it was a false alarm because my 350 Watt power supply is working okay, therefore there is no need for me to buy another. The initial problem (InWin Chopin Max) doesn't have enough power has been solved by returning the InWin Chopin Max which comes with its own power supply.

 

[PVC]

btw> I can't access your image

Maybe my CPU Fan issues had something to do with recirculating hot air because I have a large gap of extra headroom between fan and case.
@vinnyoflegend - I think you may have to get a "Direct Link" from imgur and use that to post here, maybe by using Grab-A-Link or some other method.

I will be looking at the slightly-bigger A09P Black Itx Case. It has USB 3.0 on the front panel!! Here's an amz image;

 

[vinnyoflegend]

It is using direct link to embed media. Link is

https://imgur.com/a/1SbGxUp

which the forum transforms into

[MEDIA=imgur]a/1SbGxUp[/MEDIA]

I've found IMGUR is just very problematic when using the gallery/album. Does it come up blank? It does for me unless I use incognito browser

I used to upload into the forum (but had to put it in imgur anyway) but then it wouldn't pick up new images if I add them to the album.

 

[PVC]

Yep, Blank image. Whoops; now I see an image.

Here the measurements of the Small A09 and slightly larger A09P;

A09 HTPC Computer Case Mini ITX Gaming PC Chassis
Product Dimensions 10.24 x 9.06 x 5.51 inches

A09P Black Itx Case Htpc Chassis
Product Dimensions ‎10.63 x 10.24 x 5.51 inches

 

[vinnyoflegend]

I could try just swapping the front later but I believe they're the same other than the front plate/face. (I changed the power button for my A09 because I didn't like how it felt and blocked off the front IO due to lack of space as you've experienced.

 

[PVC]

I removed my A09 front panel I/O and took it out to the bench grinder in my garage to grind off the stiff cables, and then reinstalled it. I used this small remaining sliver to attach zip ties for cable management;

 

[PVC]

Ordered the TAMOSH A09P Black Itx Case (it will take a week or a few weeks) to get here.
I am also returning/replacing the ThermalRight AXP90-X53 CPU cooler with Noctua NH-L9x65;

​

Noctua NH-L9x65, Premium Low-Prof​

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

Ordered the TAMOSH A09P Black Itx Case (it will take a week or a few weeks) to get here.
I am also returning/replacing the ThermalRight AXP90-X53 CPU cooler with Noctua NH-L9x65;

​

Noctua NH-L9x65, Premium Low-Prof​

Did you buy the regular or the copper version of the AXP90?

Cause the copper version reigns supreme over anything in that size category (below 66 mm). Anything above that, I'd pick the AXP120-X67 any time. And best so far was the IS-100.

cu, w0lf.

 

[PVC]

Did you buy the regular or the copper version of the AXP90?

Yep, Full Copper. But it's so small that I have gained about (10mm to 12mm extra CPU clearance). I am concerned that this extra open space may cause turbulence inside the case and then recycle some of the hot air. This extra space will be filled (today) when the Noctua NH-L9x65 arrives.

Allow me to describe a very-major improvement for the (HTPC-Home Theatre PC) component of this build;
My HTPC files (Video and Audio) consist of a very large number of files. And that's okay, they don't change often. However, simply adding one new file requires a complete (delete and reload) of the LG SmartShare directory. Rebuilding the LG SmartShare directory from slow external USB drives took forever.

Ah, but now with the very fast 4TB NVMe stick, rebuilding the LG SmartShare directory is done in a jiffy.

I wish that LG SmartShare had an option to add one new file? But it doesn't. Or, if it does I cannot find it.

 

[vinnyoflegend]

I'm fairly certain that the conventional wisdom is that the lack of space or the closer a fan is to case sides increases noise turbulence and makes it more difficult for the fan to pull air in.

The IS-60 EVO I had at 64mm height with a 120mm fan definitely had more noise turbulence than when I had an AXP90-X47 FC in the same A09P case.