Production S700: Salvo Studios <23L ATX Steel Watercooled Unibody Chassis

[IronLegacy45]

I clearly failed to communicate what I concluded. A lower surface area means that the holes occupy more space and thus will allow more airflow. Therefore, the hexagonal holes allow more airflow. I'm going to get an even better calculation as I was thinking about this in my sleep and I think it will definitely prove the hexagonal holes will be better.

Oh I see. I am sorry i got it messed up. Go ahead with the hexagonal holes. It really makes no difference to me at all. Its not the front i am going to be looking at, it will be the sides . Also, i have a suggestion to make about your filter problem. I think you can fix the problem by making the front panel itself removable! I am attaching a picture of my idea as i find it too difficult for me to describe it in words.


Anyways, I hope you like this design. Please reply if you liked it.

 

[grsychckn]

Ok, for calculating the vent pattern and airflow this is what I've done. I removed all the vent holes and used solidworks to calculate the entire surface area of the front part. The surface area was 360 inches squared.

Then I re-ran the surface area calculation for each of the two vent styles (hex and circle). The results were:
circle: 327.511 inches squared

hex: 272.565 inches squared

So, taking the entire surface area and subtracting each of the other calculated areas, we can see the negative area each vent pattern creates.

circle: 360 - 327.511 = 32.489 inches squared (of ventilation)
hex: 360 - 272.565 = 87.435 inches squared (of ventilation)

So the larger hex pattern presents over double the ventilation the circular pattern does. For me this is still a no-brainer for functionality - especially if someone pays money for a case that can't cool efficiently. I will try to re-run these numbers with the smaller hex pattern when I get some time (probably tomorrow).

 

[IronLegacy45]

Ok, for calculating the vent pattern and airflow this is what I've done. I removed all the vent holes and used solidworks to calculate the entire surface area of the front part. The surface area was 360 inches squared.

Then I re-ran the surface area calculation for each of the two vent styles (hex and circle). The results were:
circle: 327.511 inches squared

hex: 272.565 inches squared

So, taking the entire surface area and subtracting each of the other calculated areas, we can see the negative area each vent pattern creates.

circle: 360 - 327.511 = 32.489 inches squared (of ventilation)
hex: 360 - 272.565 = 87.435 inches squared (of ventilation)

So the larger hex pattern presents over double the ventilation the circular pattern does. For me this is still a no-brainer for functionality - especially if someone pays money for a case that can't cool efficiently. I will try to re-run these numbers with the smaller hex pattern when I get some time (probably tomorrow).

nice, it looks very promising indeed!

 

[annasoh323]

Ok, for calculating the vent pattern and airflow this is what I've done. I removed all the vent holes and used solidworks to calculate the entire surface area of the front part. The surface area was 360 inches squared.

Then I re-ran the surface area calculation for each of the two vent styles (hex and circle). The results were:
circle: 327.511 inches squared

hex: 272.565 inches squared

So, taking the entire surface area and subtracting each of the other calculated areas, we can see the negative area each vent pattern creates.

circle: 360 - 327.511 = 32.489 inches squared (of ventilation)
hex: 360 - 272.565 = 87.435 inches squared (of ventilation)

So the larger hex pattern presents over double the ventilation the circular pattern does. For me this is still a no-brainer for functionality - especially if someone pays money for a case that can't cool efficiently. I will try to re-run these numbers with the smaller hex pattern when I get some time (probably tomorrow).

I had no idea that it would be nearly twice as much ventilation!

My take, as an S401 owner, on both the hexagonal holes and dust filters, is that I think they both look great in person. The hex holes don't give off an odd vibe to me. The dust filter came with a glossy border and the filter material doesn't scream "filter screen" but more of a soft fabric with a somewhat muted shimmer. I think it's far more dignified than the filter I came from, namely the RVZ02 non-windowed. My $0.03 ($0.02 + inflation).

Given that, I'm all for experimenting with the design to see what works for folks. I do agree on a function first mentality.

Speaking of function, I've been trying to wrap my mind around how things will run from one side to the other, namely, PSU cables, cooling tubes, and PCIe extenders. I'm having a hard time visualizing from the existing pics and renders. Hoping that a working build can be put up in the new proto!

 

[TGAIO]

Oh, i realised that i mixed the 400 and the 700 up, Sorry

 

[IronLegacy45]

btw @grsychckn , what did you think of my removable front panel idea?

 

[grsychckn]

btw @grsychckn , what did you think of my removable front panel idea?

Wow - I totally missed that post. Sorry for not responding sooner. I had thought about something similar where I could even change the vented pattern. I think after I get the next prototype I'll be reviewing that front part in depth and I'll definitely be surveying for feedback. In the meantime, I'll see what I can do in Solidworks after I get a few nights of sleep under my belt.

 

[grsychckn]

Speaking of function, I've been trying to wrap my mind around how things will run from one side to the other, namely, PSU cables, cooling tubes, and PCIe extenders. I'm having a hard time visualizing from the existing pics and renders. Hoping that a working build can be put up in the new proto!

It's going to be difficult for sure. Cable/plumbing management will have to be a focal point of the upcoming prototype. My design will hopefully allow the plumbing to crossover just behind the radiator/fans. As for the power/data cables, I'm also hoping a lot of these will be able to be hidden behind the mainboard and crossover using built-in holes between the two compartments. I am concerned however that there won't be sufficient clearance behind the mainboard for cables. Only one way to find out for sure!

 

[IronLegacy45]

Wow - I totally missed that post. Sorry for not responding sooner. I had thought about something similar where I could even change the vented pattern. I think after I get the next prototype I'll be reviewing that front part in depth and I'll definitely be surveying for feedback. In the meantime, I'll see what I can do in Solidworks after I get a few nights of sleep under my belt.

you really have been working hard on this project. get some rest man! Good night

 

[grsychckn]

you really have been working hard on this project. get some rest man! Good night

Thank you, but I won't be getting sleep for a while with a 4 year-old and a 7 month-old. Also, I do have a full-time job to help support the cause. TBH it's the S401 taking up a lot of my time. I just picked up a partial delivery from my fabricator yesterday and had to package them all up for shipping today.

In case anyone is interested I'm going to walk through my process for packaging the S401. I first had to create a checklist for items to be packaged beginning with the small items like the screws, stands, PSU bracket, etc. All of these get bagged and tagged (7 sets of different screws, front button spacer, zip ties, epoxy feet - horizontal orientation, and USB cable) then packaged inside an accessory box that fits nicely inside the S401. I already have 90 of these accessory boxes packed and ready for inclusion into each S401 package. Then for each S401 chassis I laser-etch the disk mounting labels on each one which takes about 5 minutes each. Then I pre-install the PCIe extension cable, front button, USB adapter, PSU anti-vibration pad, and PSU extension cable. I secure the accessory box inside the S401 and install both the side panels with 8 screws, insert the assembly into an anti-static protective bag, and tape that up. I trim the Styrofoam end caps using a knife because they are just a little too large for my boxes and make them difficult to tape. There are additional modifications I must make to the Styrofoam if a handle or acrylic side panels are ordered. The handles get wrapped in Styrofoam sheets and the side panels are wrapped in a blue adhesive plastic wrap followed by more Styrofoam. Everything is installed in the boxes which I already folded and taped on one side which is then weighed so I can create the shipment in UPS and print out the label. At this time I mark the items as shipped which includes the tracking number and in the morning I double-check the contents, tape up the box, affix the label, and drop it off on my way to work.

There's so much work involved in shipping these it's ridiculous, but it's still much easier than the S400 where I also had to form the foam to each chassis because I used the chemical packing foam instead of engineered end caps.

 

[IronLegacy45]

Thank you, but I won't be getting sleep for a while with a 4 year-old and a 7 month-old. Also, I do have a full-time job to help support the cause. TBH it's the S401 taking up a lot of my time. I just picked up a partial delivery from my fabricator yesterday and had to package them all up for shipping today.

In case anyone is interested I'm going to walk through my process for packaging the S401. I first had to create a checklist for items to be packaged beginning with the small items like the screws, stands, PSU bracket, etc. All of these get bagged and tagged (7 sets of different screws, front button spacer, zip ties, epoxy feet - horizontal orientation, and USB cable) then packaged inside an accessory box that fits nicely inside the S401. I already have 90 of these accessory boxes packed and ready for inclusion into each S401 package. Then for each S401 chassis I laser-etch the disk mounting labels on each one which takes about 5 minutes each. Then I pre-install the PCIe extension cable, front button, USB adapter, PSU anti-vibration pad, and PSU extension cable. I secure the accessory box inside the S401 and install both the side panels with 8 screws, insert the assembly into an anti-static protective bag, and tape that up. I trim the Styrofoam end caps using a knife because they are just a little too large for my boxes and make them difficult to tape. There are additional modifications I must make to the Styrofoam if a handle or acrylic side panels are ordered. The handles get wrapped in Styrofoam sheets and the side panels are wrapped in a blue adhesive plastic wrap followed by more Styrofoam. Everything is installed in the boxes which I already folded and taped on one side which is then weighed so I can create the shipment in UPS and print out the label. At this time I mark the items as shipped which includes the tracking number and in the morning I double-check the contents, tape up the box, affix the label, and drop it off on my way to work.

There's so much work involved in shipping these it's ridiculous, but it's still much easier than the S400 where I also had to form the foam to each chassis because I used the chemical packing foam instead of engineered end caps.

Man, you really are going through a lot of stress right now! You should take it easy with this project for a few weeks to get all your bearings right. We can wait patiently for the case

 

[grsychckn]

Today at work I'm collecting specs for new development workstations and we just downgraded our cube size by 30% so I was looking for an mATX case that would hold a 2950X with an AIO and not have the same footprint as the Corsair 450D's we use now. In the process, I came back across the Cerebus and Cerebus X which got me to thinking what exactly the S700 would offer over the Cerebus X.

Early in this thread @Thehack even mentioned he was unsure at that time what the S700 would bring to the table to compete against the Cerberus X and I think he was very right to do so. The more I think about it, the more I don't think there is space for the S700 with the Cerebus X already occupying the "SFF" ATX space. Below is a short list of differences I've come up with and will be evaluating in the coming days as I'm seriously considering halting the development of the S700.

S700 vs CerberusX
1. Footprint (outer dimensions): S700=378mm x 149mm (397mm x 149mm with front panel extended) / CX=380mm x 172mm
2. AIO Radiator Support: S700=restricted to 120mm wide radiators, 1x360mm and 1x240mm / CX=Supports plethora of lengths from 120-140
3. Volume (outer dimensions): S700=23.023L (24.81L with front panel extended) / CX=23.398
4. PCIe Interfaces: S700=up to 4 but requires expensive PCIe Extenders / CX=8 without need for expensive cables
5. GPU support: S700=120mm x 330mm (120mm x 350mm with front panel extended) / CX=152mm x 330mm
6. Mainboard support: S700=mITX,mATX,ATX,E-ATX (305mm+ height regardless of front panel extension, 350mm wide with front panel extended) / CX=mITX,mATX,ATX,E-ATX (305mm × 335mm max)
7. PSU support: S700=strange configuration of SFX/SFX-L and Flex / CX=ATX,SFX/SFX-L
8. 2.5" disk support: S700=up to 38 2.5" drives (with stackers - not likely all usable though because they would consume all available PCIe interfaces), most 2.5" drives while using a PCIe RAID controller is 22 / CX=2 x 2.5" built-in with option to expand to total of 4 x 2.5"
9. 3.5" disk support: S700=up to 6 x 3.5" disks / CX=optional 3 x 3.5" disks
10. Custom loop support: S700=will have specific mounting points for specific pump/reservoir combos / CX=don't know but suspect anyone with imagination could mount a pump and reservoir.
11. Price: S700=Would not be less than $250 / CX=$250 basic configuration
12. Accessories: S700=Custom acrylic panels, Removable handle, disk stackers / CX=Handles, different side panels (acrylic,wood,solid), disk bay expansions, feet, color choice

Edit:
13. Front Panel: S700=No front panel interfaces / CX=Front panel (top) USB ports
14. CPU Cooler: S700=Water cooled only / CX=Air or Water cooled

After having created this list I have one of two options in my mind: 1. Make the S700 less expensive. 2. Differentiate the S700 somehow by offering something the Cerberus X does not (I feel I do this with the S400/S401 due to the GPU orientation). In reality #1 is not an option as my margins are very slightly negative as it is with the S401 (I make some back on accessories). Suffice to say either I go back to the drawing board or I drop this project all together. I will continue with prototype #2 though as I would still very much like to have and use my own creation.

 

[Thehack]

I am not familiar with the needs of an Atx builder but I would imagine that a large memory pool and the ability to use a HEDT socket are two good reasons. The CX chassis is simple employ, easy to scale to more expansions without expensive risers.

I would say a good market to hit is an Atx chassis at around 14-15L.

Dimensions 380mm depth, 320mm height, and 110mm width.

Expansions: swappable rear planel for full LP expansions or single full height card (using riser) + single LP card.

Cooler: 360mm rad above motherboard

PSU: sfx-L

Drive: two 3.5 or full of 2.5 ssd

 

[annasoh323]

If I may add my pontifications to yours: having followed this and your work for a bit now, I understand that the S700 was born from a desire to evolve the S40x platform which would simplify the design process and leverage your existing design and industrial resources. It also offered something different as far as ATX chassis go (what in the world is the plural of "chassis"?! <google> oh. Also "chassis". ok.). In that light, you've certainly succeeded - it's an excellent evolution (as you've said, the concept originated as a sort of sandwiching of S401's back to back). It is a fair question to ask if it's an advantageous evolution. To my knowledge, it's unique amongst cases, moreso, I'd argue, than the S40X. It will be good to think through if the uniqueness is an advantage.

Regardless of the results of your eval, I definitely want to see how the proto comes out. Gotta see Threadripper roar!

To @Thehack's point, I too am unfamiliar with ATX needs but am on board with your observations re: HEDT and memory. Whether the specs you've suggested is a short-step from the existing S700 models or not will have to be decided by @grsychckn so I'll be prepared to wait and see if lightning will strike

 

[grsychckn]

If this support is brought in here, this will be like the ultimate slim atx case for me (the cerberus x was no match for it in any case )

@IronLegacy45 can you elaborate from your perspective why the S700 is better?

I'm still debating the merits of making the S700. I wasn't planning on selling hundreds so the fact it could fill a niche somewhere would suffice for me. I also might play with the front expansion a little bit because with the right tweaking the S700 could actually fill the role of both the Cerberus and the Cerberus X in terms of size. I also think the design of the S700 not being a traditional design works in its favor - especially when you think that the GPU and CPU/mainboard could really be highlighted by having them oriented like they are in the S700. If I could manage to target a price of around $200 for the S700 I think I'd have no problem shifting them. I have a feeler sent out to the fabricator that expresses some of my ideas for lowering the costs but it will require a lot of Solidworks work if they think it will work. The largest issue might be that I'd then have to still include acrylic panels or tempered glass which would be expensive. I have sent out feelers on the tempered glass to see what I'm looking at for cost, when I last priced them online a single custom pane was over $100. To compare, the steel side panels on the S401 cost me $36 just to be fabricated (also with a quantity discount), so the side panels will need to be considered when I run the numbers.

I'd also like to include a touch button (capacitive) because I could also then etch a custom logo on that as well. My default option would be a frosted white just in case someone wanted to light it up with RGB. I'm also going to move the power button if I move forward to revision 3. I'd like it to be on top near the front if I can't get it front facing by default. Regardless, I have a lot to think about.

 

[bran]

Would steel frame plus plexi paneling drive down the cost to the 150 range. If so, maybe offering the entry level version would be good?

I would be interested in any case that can do full ATX in a smaller volume than CX. Especially around the 150 dollars mark. Would it also be a good idea to drop EATX support if that could drop cost further?

 

[IronLegacy45]

@IronLegacy45 can you elaborate from your perspective why the S700 is better?

I'm still debating the merits of making the S700. I wasn't planning on selling hundreds so the fact it could fill a niche somewhere would suffice for me. I also might play with the front expansion a little bit because with the right tweaking the S700 could actually fill the role of both the Cerberus and the Cerberus X in terms of size. I also think the design of the S700 not being a traditional design works in its favor - especially when you think that the GPU and CPU/mainboard could really be highlighted by having them oriented like they are in the S700. If I could manage to target a price of around $200 for the S700 I think I'd have no problem shifting them. I have a feeler sent out to the fabricator that expresses some of my ideas for lowering the costs but it will require a lot of Solidworks work if they think it will work. The largest issue might be that I'd then have to still include acrylic panels or tempered glass which would be expensive. I have sent out feelers on the tempered glass to see what I'm looking at for cost, when I last priced them online a single custom pane was over $100. To compare, the steel side panels on the S401 cost me $36 just to be fabricated (also with a quantity discount), so the side panels will need to be considered when I run the numbers.

I'd also like to include a touch button (capacitive) because I could also then etch a custom logo on that as well. My default option would be a frosted white just in case someone wanted to light it up with RGB. I'm also going to move the power button if I move forward to revision 3. I'd like it to be on top near the front if I can't get it front facing by default. Regardless, I have a lot to think about.

@grsychckn , i will be very honest with you. When you said that you would scratch this project altogether if you don't find a good enough reason why the case should exist, i was like 'why'? I knew about the Cerberus X quite a long time but didn't go for it after checking every last detail about it. That problem is non-existent in the S700 which I will tell you about in a sec. The potential problems that I think will always exist in the Cerberus X are looks and cable management (please hear me out on the looks part before judging me ).

Both of the cases have equal advantages and tradeoffs. But your case simply looks much more clean and elegant than the Cerberus X because you chose the dual chamber layout for the case. No matter what people say, looks are very important to pc enthusiasts like us. Otherwise, where is the difference between a pre-built Dell system and a custom built one? The Cerberus X is also a cable management disaster because there is no psu shroud or chamber to hold it in. Hence all the cables will basically be dangling off of it. But in your case, there is a chance to do proper cable management! Also, you were talking about your case's weird support for SFX+FlexATX PSU. I don't think that is going to be an issue for the most of us but if in any way it will be possible, i would tell you to increase the width of the case to make space for an ATX PSU and remove support for FlexATX altogether! But these were just my thoughts why i will opt for the S700 instead of the Cerberus X. Also, you could just include one TG/Acrylic panel and one vented steel panel with the case and charge something extra for another TG/Acrylic panel.

 

[smallfartfactor]

Hey man, I lurk these forums constantly and never post. I've been following this thread since its inception and check almost every day. Whatever you decide to do with this case, just wanted to lend some support.

I have an idea I'm working on for my own case but it will probably be a while before I can make any progress on it, considering I can't even afford any parts to put in it at the moment. In my opinion, this case in particular is the most interesting case on the forum, design wise. Lots of inspiration.

Best

 

[grsychckn]

@grsychckn , i will be very honest with you. When you said that you would scratch this project altogether if you don't find a good enough reason why the case should exist, i was like 'why'? I knew about the Cerberus X quite a long time but didn't go for it after checking every last detail about it. That problem is non-existent in the S700 which I will tell you about in a sec. The potential problems that I think will always exist in the Cerberus X are looks and cable management (please hear me out on the looks part before judging me ).

Both of the cases have equal advantages and tradeoffs. But your case simply looks much more clean and elegant than the Cerberus X because you chose the dual chamber layout for the case. No matter what people say, looks are very important to pc enthusiasts like us. Otherwise, where is the difference between a pre-built Dell system and a custom built one? The Cerberus X is also a cable management disaster because there is no psu shroud or chamber to hold it in. Hence all the cables will basically be dangling off of it. But in your case, there is a chance to do proper cable management! Also, you were talking about your case's weird support for SFX+FlexATX PSU. I don't think that is going to be an issue for the most of us but if in any way it will be possible, i would tell you to increase the width of the case to make space for an ATX PSU and remove support for FlexATX altogether! But these were just my thoughts why i will opt for the S700 instead of the Cerberus X. Also, you could just include one TG/Acrylic panel and one vented steel panel with the case and charge something extra for another TG/Acrylic panel.

I'm glad you responded because it got me thinking. I'm not going to compete with the Cerberus/X cases as I don't really have the capability to do so on a large scale. I'll always be a small operation that focuses on niche products. The thing that scared me was the "checking" of the boxes when it came to features and how robust the Cerberus/X is. However, you make a great point when it comes to aesthetics. The designs are very different in terms of the overall look of the case and I think I've concluded that will be sufficient for me to continue developing this case. Thank you for throwing in your 2 cents!

 

[grsychckn]

Hey man, I lurk these forums constantly and never post. I've been following this thread since its inception and check almost every day. Whatever you decide to do with this case, just wanted to lend some support.

I have an idea I'm working on for my own case but it will probably be a while before I can make any progress on it, considering I can't even afford any parts to put in it at the moment. In my opinion, this case in particular is the most interesting case on the forum, design wise. Lots of inspiration.

Best

First off: name checks out. Secondly, thank you as well for replying as I did need some encouragement which you provided. If you ever need help with your design let me know - I'd be happy (although quite busy) to help any way I can.