Completed S401: Salvo Studios <8L mITX Steel Unibody Chassis w/ GPU & CPU fans in same direction

[grsychckn]

Also, I started running thermal testing last night and ran into a ton of small problems. The mini-DP adapter I used with the WX9100 apparently doesn't support DHCP so when I attempted to switch over to the gaming drivers while the GPU was connected to the monitor over HDMI, it locked up the system and I had to replace the WX9100 to get video back. Then, I swapped my Vega 64 into the chassis and saw a lot of strange behavior on the GPU (locking up, etc.). Same behavior on the MSI RX580. I had been using the FSP 500W SFX PSU which I sent back for repair because the fan ran at 100% all the time. FSP didn't fix the problem by the way, but I decided to swap out the FSP with a Lian-Li SFX-L PSU (750W) and the darn thing ran so quietly I couldn't tell it was on (until I started testing again).

So now, I think I've finally normalized my configuration for testing and I'll be moving forward with the WX9100 (got a new mini-DP adapter) and the Lian-Li PSU in the next few days.

My initial (questionable) results showed that although the system/GPU temp didn't change with the 60mm fans enabled, the CPU temp dropped by around 4-6 degrees C. I also have different fan profiles I can choose from and this was just using the "quiet" mode. If I change to the "aggressive" mode I wonder what difference that may make (other than louder).

 

[annasoh323]

Depending on if you want to have it vertical or not.

I'd be fine with a 1/4"(~4mm) gain.

That's a fair point. I made assumptions based off of my existing and intended setup. I also thought to use a solid frame vs. standoffs because I know how dirty my dust filters get and I'm trying to avoid making openings as much as possible (need to go pickup some dust filters before I'd be able to put an S401 into service).

Also, I started running thermal testing last night and ran into a ton of small problems. The mini-DP adapter I used with the WX9100 apparently doesn't support DHCP so when I attempted to switch over to the gaming drivers while the GPU was connected to the monitor over HDMI, it locked up the system and I had to replace the WX9100 to get video back. Then, I swapped my Vega 64 into the chassis and saw a lot of strange behavior on the GPU (locking up, etc.). Same behavior on the MSI RX580. I had been using the FSP 500W SFX PSU which I sent back for repair because the fan ran at 100% all the time. FSP didn't fix the problem by the way, but I decided to swap out the FSP with a Lian-Li SFX-L PSU (750W) and the darn thing ran so quietly I couldn't tell it was on (until I started testing again).

So now, I think I've finally normalized my configuration for testing and I'll be moving forward with the WX9100 (got a new mini-DP adapter) and the Lian-Li PSU in the next few days.

My initial (questionable) results showed that although the system/GPU temp didn't change with the 60mm fans enabled, the CPU temp dropped by around 4-6 degrees C. I also have different fan profiles I can choose from and this was just using the "quiet" mode. If I change to the "aggressive" mode I wonder what difference that may make (other than louder).

I hate when adapters go bad. I do slides at my church and it took us a while before we found a reliable set of display adapters to get us from the Macbook to the projection screen. Then we added the video mixing board, the splitters, the source selectors, the cameras... It got worse before it got better.

Interested in those GPU numbers. Perhaps a shrouded design is unphased by a small fan in that orientation relative to the blower fan. I've seen positive results for folks in cases that can install 120mm fans facing the blower fan (ala Ncase M1 and Fractal Node 202). At the same time, the Nvidia blower cards I've seen seem to have a vented opening on the end of the card whereas the AMD models are entirely closed. Maybe there's a difference there? Regardless, thanks again for doing this.

 

[grsychckn]

Pre-orders are here!
Please take a moment to review the 4 different pre-order options below as these links are currently only referenced in this newsletter. Click on any of the pre-order options to view more images and read specifications.

My fabricator has stated I will receive 25 units by September 21. Pre-orders may be subject to potential shipping delays. I will contact each customer individually should shipping delays occur. I will also send out a newsletter when the first shipments are sent. I cannot change the shipping date on my website for these products so please ignore any estimated shipping times.

I will accept pre-orders over the initial 25 units as another 50 units or more will be available the first week of October. I've ordered a total of 130 chassis so there should be plenty of availability.

S401 Basic - $165 + shipping
This bundle includes the S401 chassis, removable stands, steel side panels, standard fastener hardware, PCIe extender, front power button, front USB adapter and cable, and power supply inlet/cable.
S401 Basic Pre-Order

S401 Basic with Handle - $185 + shipping
S401 Basic bundle (above) plus:

• removable handle

S401 Basic Pre-Order with Handle

S401 with Custom Side Panels - starting at $215 + shipping
S401 Basic bundle (above) plus:

• Two additional side panels (one vented, one solid), both laser-cut from your choice of acrylic material.

S401 with Custom Side Panels Pre-Order

S401 with Custom Side Panels and Handle - starting at $235 + shipping
S401 Basic bundle (above) plus:

• Two additional side panels (one vented, one solid), both laser-cut from your choice of acrylic material
• Removable handle.

S401 with Custom Side Panels and Handle Pre-Order

 

[Sparkles]

Can't wait to recieve! Me and two friends have already ordered! Time for a S401 army!!

 

[papayo]

What do you recommend for fan orientation? All exhaust fans or intake on one side and exhaust on the other?
Are different screws included for horizontal orientation or are they the same ones pictured in vertical orientation?

 

[DSmithBYU]

Oh! Just to be sure: once the preorder's made, the customer cannot add in the extra parts such as the panels/handle to said order??

 

[grsychckn]

Oh! Just to be sure: once the preorder's made, the customer cannot add in the extra parts such as the panels/handle to said order??

Correct, but I can issue full refunds if you want to change the bundle you purchased.

 

[grsychckn]

Oh! Just to be sure: once the preorder's made, the customer cannot add in the extra parts such as the panels/handle to said order??

- wrong quote

-Correct quote

What do you recommend for fan orientation? All exhaust fans or intake on one side and exhaust on the other?
Are different screws included for horizontal orientation or are they the same ones pictured in vertical orientation?

I'll go into detail more on this tomorrow but my answer depends on the orientation you intend to use. If vertical, I think I've found intake on bottom and exhaust on top works well - regardless of of the GPU or CPU location. If horizontal, I think that depends on if you are using an open air or a blower style GPU. Good news though is that it's pretty easy to turn the fans around without too much hassle.

 

[DSmithBYU]

Correct, but I can issue full refunds if you want to change the bundle you purchased.

Understood.

Initially, I wanted to add in the handle but I can manage holding the case as a full rig with my own hands, and I also wanted to invest in a new backpack like a big enough drawstring backpack that could fit in a built S401+wireless mouse/keyboard.

It's all good.

 

[Poblopuablo]

I'll go into detail more on this tomorrow but my answer depends on the orientation you intend to use. If vertical, I think I've found intake on bottom and exhaust on top works well - regardless of of the GPU or CPU location. If horizontal, I think that depends on if you are using an open air or a blower style GPU. Good news though is that it's pretty easy to turn the fans around without too much hassle.

Think you qutoed the wrong guy lol.

 

[32y0]

Looks great, congrats! Shipping kinda kills it for me though.

 

[grsychckn]

Looks great, congrats! Shipping kinda kills it for me though.

Sorry - shipping has been a big struggle for me as well. If you don't mind, would you PM me your address? I'd like to run some comparisons of my own using UPS, FedEx, and USPS as I'm still negotiating with some of them on prices/discounts.

 

[batterybull]

any word/pictures on the dust filters?

 

[grsychckn]

any word/pictures on the dust filters?

Yes, I have two dust filters that I've taken pictures of on the case but now can't find the pictures. I'll take a picture tonight and get it uploaded. The Demciflex filters I'm using fit very well on the exterior but won't fit mounted on the inside. I was thinking I'd try laser cutting some of the filter screen I purchased for the S400 and then use an upholstery glue to adhere it to the inside of the vented panel, but I just haven't had time to try it. That of course would be a more permanent solution & would require the removal of the vented panel to clean.

 

[grsychckn]

BTW, I finished my initial testing of the 60mm case fans and will try to post the results tonight as well. Basically, the fans near the CPU definitely made a difference in the CPU temp (2-4 degrees C) but not so much with the case temp (mainboard sensor) or GPU. Of course, I am going to try several more iterations of the fan orientation to confirm these results.

 

[annasoh323]

BTW, I finished my initial testing of the 60mm case fans and will try to post the results tonight as well. Basically, the fans near the CPU definitely made a difference in the CPU temp (2-4 degrees C) but not so much with the case temp (mainboard sensor) or GPU. Of course, I am going to try several more iterations of the fan orientation to confirm these results.

I was on Amazon last night (my dad needed a car part ordered) and I went looking for fans while I was at it (This whole "I'd better pick <x item> up while I'm already here," should only apply to physical stores but I digress). I did find Delta 60mm PWM fans but that seller doesn't ship to me. I poked around a bit more and went with the Gelid Silent 6 fans for now. Hopefully they'll be able to help, especially with a C7 as the cooler. I decided to forego the GPU fan for now based on your initial testing.

Did you finish both the closed and open shroud cooler testing? Hypothetically speaking, I thought that the closed shroud would see little to no improvement with fan while the open shroud would see perhaps some marginal improvement.

Rats, I forgot to order the demciflex filters while I was on Amazon...

 

[grsychckn]

Also, @Poblopuablo suggested a good idea where I could actually cut out a few "L" shaped brackets from an opaque acrylic sheet to form a spacer between the chassis and the vented panel. It would add approximately 5.4mm to the CPU cooler clearance so that the overall CPU cooler clearance would be ~58mm. Of course, anyone could also use standard #6-32 standoffs to increase that clearance as well but below is a picture of what it would look like to have the acrylic sandwiched between the chassis and the vented panel. The same modification could be done to both sides (vented vs. solid panel).

Edit: Forgot to add pictures.

I was on Amazon last night (my dad needed a car part ordered) and I went looking for fans while I was at it (This whole "I'd better pick <x item> up while I'm already here," should only apply to physical stores but I digress). I did find Delta 60mm PWM fans but that seller doesn't ship to me. I poked around a bit more and went with the Gelid Silent 6 fans for now. Hopefully they'll be able to help, especially with a C7 as the cooler. I decided to forego the GPU fan for now based on your initial testing.

Did you finish both the closed and open shroud cooler testing? Hypothetically speaking, I thought that the closed shroud would see little to no improvement with fan while the open shroud would see perhaps some marginal improvement.

Rats, I forgot to order the demciflex filters while I was on Amazon...

The Demciflex filters I bought that seem to fit well are here.

The shrouded vs open air CPU cooling solutions are hard for me to compare against each other because my shrouded GPU is the Vega 64 LE and the open air GPU is the Lightning R9 290X. While both run hot, I can't really compare the two against each other. That said, I think you were asking if there was a difference when the fan was on versus off for each. I can say in my VERY limited testing that there was no discernible difference between having that fan on blowing directly towards GPU versus off. I do want to test the fan blowing out of the case as my tests were done with the fan blowing into the case. More to come on this front.

I will also add that I'm working on purchasing 100 of the Delta fans to make available with the chassis at the time of purchase. I can get them pretty cheap through a contact I found, but will take a few weeks probably to be delivered (and then I want to test them to ensure compatibility and performance). If things go through as planned, I would expect to ask somewhere around $3-4 per fan. These are the 60x60x15 PWM fans.

 

[annasoh323]

Also, @Poblopuablo suggested a good idea where I could actually cut out a few "L" shaped brackets from an opaque acrylic sheet to form a spacer between the chassis and the vented panel. It would add approximately 5.4mm to the CPU cooler clearance so that the overall CPU cooler clearance would be ~58mm. Of course, anyone could also use standard #6-32 standoffs to increase that clearance as well but below is a picture of what it would look like to have the acrylic sandwiched between the chassis and the vented panel. The same modification could be done to both sides (vented vs. solid panel).

Edit: Forgot to add pictures.

The Demciflex filters I bought that seem to fit well are here.

The shrouded vs open air CPU cooling solutions are hard for me to compare against each other because my shrouded GPU is the Vega 64 LE and the open air GPU is the Lightning R9 290X. While both run hot, I can't really compare the two against each other. That said, I think you were asking if there was a difference when the fan was on versus off for each. I can say in my VERY limited testing that there was no discernible difference between having that fan on blowing directly towards GPU versus off. I do want to test the fan blowing out of the case as my tests were done with the fan blowing into the case. More to come on this front.

I will also add that I'm working on purchasing 100 of the Delta fans to make available with the chassis at the time of purchase. I can get them pretty cheap through a contact I found, but will take a few weeks probably to be delivered (and then I want to test them to ensure compatibility and performance). If things go through as planned, I would expect to ask somewhere around $3-4 per fan. These are the 60x60x15 PWM fans.

Pretty good news all around. Will it be possible to add those L-shaped acrylic spacers to an order? Do you have a source for the #6-32 thumbscrews so that longer ones can be procured? I'm wondering if I should consider canceling the Gelid fans. Doing a spec comparison of (what I assume are) the Delta fans and the Gelids, the Deltas should have much more airflow, much less static pressure, and much more noise. I would think airflow would be king here. But then again, they're both cheap-ish and options are good... Maybe I should go see if there are overtime opportunities at work...

The way that the video card fan is placed, I suppose it makes sense that neither a closed nor an open card would benefit. The GPU itself is closer to the I/O side so the fan would be blowing toward the VRM heatsink if anything while not directly benefiting the GPU die. For a shrouded blower, I wonder what would make it more efficient? Perhaps an additional shroud from the 60mm fan to the near the main card fan to artificially decrease temperature (higher speed, lower pressure, lower temperature)? This is what I get for not becoming a mechanical engineer.

 

[grsychckn]

Pretty good news all around. Will it be possible to add those L-shaped acrylic spacers to an order? Do you have a source for the #6-32 thumbscrews so that longer ones can be procured? I'm wondering if I should consider canceling the Gelid fans. Doing a spec comparison of (what I assume are) the Delta fans and the Gelids, the Deltas should have much more airflow, much less static pressure, and much more noise. I would think airflow would be king here. But then again, they're both cheap-ish and options are good... Maybe I should go see if there are overtime opportunities at work...

The way that the video card fan is placed, I suppose it makes sense that neither a closed nor an open card would benefit. The GPU itself is closer to the I/O side so the fan would be blowing toward the VRM heatsink if anything while not directly benefiting the GPU die. For a shrouded blower, I wonder what would make it more efficient? Perhaps an additional shroud from the 60mm fan to the near the main card fan to artificially decrease temperature (higher speed, lower pressure, lower temperature)? This is what I get for not becoming a mechanical engineer.

I *probably* won't have the "L" shaped spacers done in time to include with existing orders. I'll do my best this weekend to get them designed and if I'm lucky, laser cut. Yes, the thumbscrews I use for the single-layer acrylic won't be long enough to be used with the metal on top of the acrylic spacers. I'm already looking into alternative thumbscrews for this application. I've found both steel and nylon thumbscrews that would work, but the price difference is significant ($2.40 per 4 for steel, $0.40 per 4 for nylon). The nylon won't look as nice, but $2 per side is significant.

As far as the GPU fan, I suspect I'll get better results when using the open air cooler combined with the fan extracting air rather than intaking. Thinking about it for a while today, I thought that the fans on the open air GPU would be trying to force the hot air away from the card while the chassis fan is actually fighting this behavior by pushing air towards it. I'll be able to test this tonight and collect my results.

As for the Delta fans vs. the Gelids: I have both. The problem I had with the Gelid fans is that mine are 3-pin fans and operate at a constant RPM and they were actually pretty loud while the system was idle. The Delta was PWM and when my mainboard auto-detected the minimum RPM, they were actually very silent during idle and not overly obnoxious under load (warning: subjective).

 

[annasoh323]

I *probably* won't have the "L" shaped spacers done in time to include with existing orders. I'll do my best this weekend to get them designed and if I'm lucky, laser cut. Yes, the thumbscrews I use for the single-layer acrylic won't be long enough to be used with the metal on top of the acrylic spacers. I'm already looking into alternative thumbscrews for this application. I've found both steel and nylon thumbscrews that would work, but the price difference is significant ($2.40 per 4 for steel, $0.40 per 4 for nylon). The nylon won't look as nice, but $2 per side is significant.

As far as the GPU fan, I suspect I'll get better results when using the open air cooler combined with the fan extracting air rather than intaking. Thinking about it for a while today, I thought that the fans on the open air GPU would be trying to force the hot air away from the card while the chassis fan is actually fighting this behavior by pushing air towards it. I'll be able to test this tonight and collect my results.

As for the Delta fans vs. the Gelids: I have both. The problem I had with the Gelid fans is that mine are 3-pin fans and operate at a constant RPM and they were actually pretty loud while the system was idle. The Delta was PWM and when my mainboard auto-detected the minimum RPM, they were actually very silent during idle and not overly obnoxious under load (warning: subjective).

I'm in no rush for the extension pieces: I've got a plan to downsize my CPU cooler/fan already in motion. It'll help me if I eventually have to go on a long trip and want to take it with me. Your video card fan hypothesis seems legit; looking forward to hearing the good word.

Hm, I see why the Gelids were replaced. I've had good luck using 3-pin with voltage control on my mobo so maybe I won't be so bad off (hopefully the splitter doesn't mess anything up). My target for "noise tolerance" is a moving one - things I swore would never bother me suddenly do. We'll see how things are once we're all set up. Hoping that RGB with the acrylic side panels looks as good as I'm thinking it will! Hmm, also hoping that RGB strip fits with fans installed... and everything else installed... hmm...