Cooling Quick hands on the Cryorig Cu C7

Gautam

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Sep 5, 2016
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The lp53 guys always preach that as well lol. Love to see some direct numbers against it and the c7cu.
Here's an alternative theory: Don't point with the vents aimed at the RAM 1 module like a total noob.
How bad is it to do this? A lot of the slightly larger heatsinks (like the C1, the NH-L12 etc) appear to be basically designed to have the vent perpendicular to the RAM (because they go on top) but this is supposedly a bad practice, but not as bad as pointing the heatpipes towards the video card... anyone have numbers or experience with how performance is affected by orientation?
 

IntoxicatedPuma

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How bad is it to do this? A lot of the slightly larger heatsinks (like the C1, the NH-L12 etc) appear to be basically designed to have the vent perpendicular to the RAM (because they go on top) but this is supposedly a bad practice, but not as bad as pointing the heatpipes towards the video card... anyone have numbers or experience with how performance is affected by orientation?

The Thermolab is completely flat on the side and basically sits flush with the first RAM DIMM which is part of the problem. The AR06 is not flat and the lower fins don't come out as far leaving a larger gap for air to escape, so I think most larger coolers have this design and wouldn't have this problem.
 
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loader963

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Idk personally as I’ve never tested both to do a comparison. On the face of it I could see why it would if the left and right sides are blocked while the upper and lower are usually clear or at least not blocked as much. But while it may make a difference, I’d doubt it to be too much. Puma up above has done a bunch of testing on coolers though, so I’m inclined to believe him on this.
 
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Gautam

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Sep 5, 2016
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The Thermolab is completely flat on the side and basically sits flush with the first RAM DIMM which is part of the problem. The AR06 is not flat and the lower fins don't come out as far leaving a larger gap for air to escape, so I think most larger coolers have this design and wouldn't have this problem.
I see, so its a matter of airflow.

For heatpipe orientation, Noctua recommends against having them point downward for the NH-L12s, but all other orientations seem to be ok.

 

Fenrir

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Feb 7, 2018
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I see, so its a matter of airflow.

For heatpipe orientation, Noctua recommends against having them point downward for the NH-L12s, but all other orientations seem to be ok.

So how should you orient the c7 then?
 

Thehack

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So how should you orient the c7 then?

Heatpipes point parallel to the surface if it is standing vertically. It's due to the that fact that there's vapor inside the heatpipes. Vapor is supposed to be able to vaporize, move upwards, condense as it release heat, and drop down to the base. C7 is probably best horizontally. If it have to fight against gravity this makes it less efficient.

I found a good article that pictures it: link
 
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justafatboy

Case Bender
Apr 24, 2018
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Hey guys, new to SFF here. Been lurking for a little while now and will like to chime in.

Found reviews on the Thermaltake Ultra Extreme Copper that was compared to it's aluminum variant, temperature was only a tad better.

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2008/11/19/thermalright_ultra_extreme_copper_cpu_cooler_review/3

I don't want to be skeptical of the results OP has achieved but tests performed by @IntoxicatedPuma and the above review drastically differs. Was actually keen on purchasing the Cu variant through Taobao, guess I'll wait for mainstream reviews to get a bigger sample size.
 

Kmpkt

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I'll wait for mainstream reviews to get a bigger sample size.

This. Copper is only better than aluminum if the fin material is the rate limiter on the heatsink's efficiency. Almost certainly this is not the case on the C7 Cu as there are a number of glaring design faults (in my opinion) on the C7 that basically eliminate this possibility.
 

Gautam

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Sep 5, 2016
148
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So how should you orient the c7 then?
Not a C7, but I tested my C1 in 4 different orientations, and the results basically match the Noctua recommendation, but it honestly doesn't matter much unless every last degree is critical.

Cryorig C1
Noctua NF-P14s @ 800 RPM
i7-6700k @ 4.2GHz 1.15v
Prime95 28.9 Small-FFT (the hard version, AVX/FMA3) for 10 minutes
Average temp across 4 cores

Heatpipes pointed up: 73.13

Heatpipes pointed down (the "bad" way): 75.2

Heatpipes pointed sideways: 73.3

Case and heatsink laid flat: 74.65

Sideways and up are the best, downward and flat are the worst, but it's not a huge margin.
 

tinyitx

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Jan 25, 2018
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It is quite easy to test the 4 orientations. One does not need to reinstall the heatsink but just flip the chassis to simulate the heatpipe oeientations. Noctua is not the only player that makes such recommendation. Silverstone makes the same suggestion, when they released their RV chassis series.

Further reading if interested:-
http://www.overclock.net/forum/246-...-heatpipe-orientation-cooling-efficiency.html

I remember Tony Choi (the designer of Gelid fans and heatsinks) mentioned that, generally speaking, having the heatpipes pointing down (making the flow back running against gravity) would introduce roughly a 30% deduction in cooling efficiency/capacity (a ballpark figure that one can keep in mind).

And remember, this affects all heatpipes, of not just the CPU cooler, but also the video card's and the motherboard's (nowadays, not many motherboards have heatpipes though).
 

IceIceBear

Chassis Packer
Mar 5, 2018
14
23
Hi there, thanks for your sharing, just saw your post in Huijing's Taobao comment section, and then saw your post here, kind of lucky. Just wanna ask:
1) if I never delid my 8700k, how much would it help with this Cu C7, in terms of temp and performance perhaps? I'm currently running my 8700K on rog z370-i with an Alu C7 in a Dan case A4, offset Vcore by 0.14V, so max Vcore will be 1.088V. I didn't do any overclocking, left ratio at auto per core in Bios. It's idling around 40 C. In a normal condition like gaming, all cores run at 4.3ghz around 65 C. Under aida64 CPU stress test, it stabilizes at 4.3 Ghz at 1.088V, around 77-78 C. Under aida64 FPU test, it runs at 4.3 Ghz at first, after heating up to 90 C, it auto down clock to 3.9 Ghz with voltage reduction and runs around 80 C, though I didn't set any AVX value in the Bios and it also shows no throttling (would anyone advise me what is phenomenon).
In game:

CPU stress test:

FPU test:



2) from your other threads, I can see that you are creating ultimate silence for your build. I'm encountering the problem that, even my CPU and GPU fans run quiet, my GPUs (1070ti & 1080 Founder) have some sort of coil whine, in the end, I have to turn up fan RPM to cover up the coil whine noise, have you got a similar problem with your build? Coil whine is such a comment issue. I handed on other 3 1070ti for my friends builds, all coil whine!!! Since the A4 case is meant to stay right on the table, the noise is really concerning.
 
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Hudzzy

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Apr 11, 2018
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Hey guys, new to SFF here. Been lurking for a little while now and will like to chime in.

Found reviews on the Thermaltake Ultra Extreme Copper that was compared to it's aluminum variant, temperature was only a tad better.

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2008/11/19/thermalright_ultra_extreme_copper_cpu_cooler_review/3

I don't want to be skeptical of the results OP has achieved but tests performed by @IntoxicatedPuma and the above review drastically differs. Was actually keen on purchasing the Cu variant through Taobao, guess I'll wait for mainstream reviews to get a bigger sample size.
No worries as my tests were kinda messed up tbh, so far I haven't notice any significant temp improvements during my use of this PC (light-weight gaming for the most of time). I will have another 8700k tomorrow to try out, so I can do more tests about the C7, sadly I've sold my Alu C7 so no comparisons.

EDIT: Just read IntoxicatedPuma's tests, seems like his results were actually similar to mine given the testing specs, read here: Low Profile CPU Cooler round up

Also another thing worth mentioning is the cooler orientation of course. I aligned fins parallel to the RAM sticks after I found the airflow will be restricted if cooler was mounted sideways.

Hi there, thanks for your sharing, just saw your post in Huijing's Taobao comment section, and then saw your post here, kind of lucky. Just wanna ask:
1) if I never delid my 8700k, how much would it help with this Cu C7, in terms of temp and performance perhaps? I'm currently running my 8700K on rog z370-i with an Alu C7 in a Dan case A4, offset Vcore by 0.14V, so max Vcore will be 1.088V. I didn't do any overclocking, left ratio at auto per core in Bios. It's idling around 40 C. In a normal condition like gaming, all cores run at 4.3ghz around 65 C. Under aida64 CPU stress test, it stabilizes at 4.3 Ghz at 1.088V, around 77-78 C. Under aida64 FPU test, it runs at 4.3 Ghz at first, after heating up to 90 C, it auto down clock to 3.9 Ghz with voltage reduction and runs around 80 C, though I didn't set any AVX value in the Bios and it also shows no throttling (would anyone advise me what is phenomenon).
In game:

CPU stress test:

FPU test:



2) from your other threads, I can see that you are creating ultimate silence for your build. I'm encountering the problem that, even my CPU and GPU fans run quiet, my GPUs (1070ti & 1080 Founder) have some sort of coil whine, in the end, I have to turn up fan RPM to cover up the coil whine noise, have you got a similar problem with your build? Coil whine is such a comment issue. I handed on other 3 1070ti for my friends builds, all coil whine!!! Since the A4 case is meant to stay right on the table, the noise is really concerning.
Thanks for the reply, I'll share my thoughts here:

1) Luckily I'll have another brand new boxed 8700k arriving tomorrow, ordered this because I'm just trying my luck to see if I can win silicon lottery for even once. In this case I may do a delid vs non-delid comparison with my current setup using same chip, it should help you to decide whether to delid yours.

My thoughts: this is not throttling, as the chip is still running above base frequency, I've encountered same situation, googled and found it's due to wattage constrains. My workaround is to set max current (cant remember the exact name) to 255.5. Gmaing or CPU test are not as intense as FPU hence you can get stable 4.3 on all cores.

2) Yes coil whine is sooooo annoying, before my itx build, my PSU (Corsair AX860) had coil whine under load and my GPUs (I had Gigabyte 1080Ti Auros*2, EVGA 1080&1070 FTW) were having coil whine during load as well (except 1070FTW). The card I'm currently using (EVGA 1080Ti SC2) doesn't have coil whine though. This really depends on your luck I guess, I can live with it as I use headset during gaming sessions so I can barely hear it.

My goal of the build is to create the ultra silent PC during light usage, once CPU & GPU had high usage, fans will be ramping up, the rig will still become noisy. There're some of my tips if you're building silent A4 rig:
1. Replace the stock SF600 PSU fan. My SF600 fan will constantly running on high rpm even during ilde (replaced 2 units, can confirm it's not a faulty PSU). The reasons I can think of: 0-rpm mode threshold is too low; GPU heat conducted to the back of PSU case.
2. Replace the stock GPU fan. All my GPU fans will produce high-pitched noise during low rpm, this is really annoying. Nvidia cards should have 0-rpm mode but I'm running 2 monitors with 2 different refresh rates (165 and 60hz), then the core clocks won't drop to low range during web surfing and light use. So the fans will ramp up and down every several minutes. Replaced the fans with 2 * Noctua A9x14, this really helps.
3. Do not use HDD, for obvious reasons (acoustically).
4. Mount dust filters carefully to prevent fan interference.
 
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Hudzzy

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Apr 11, 2018
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So got another 8700K today, batch# L803, a pretty new batch. Tested on my ASUS Z370i, all BIOS settings on default except disabling MCE, I can get into OS and run CPU-Z with x50 all core at 1.25V, mediocre chip I would say, but still much better than my previous L730 chip, cant get into OS even with x48 at 1.25v.

Then I delid this chip, use Conductnaut as LM, Shin-Etsu 7921 as paste. I passed 10 mins AIDA64 FPU when x45 at 1.14v. Then few more runs, already updated in the shared excel sheet in 1# post

One more thing worth mentioning is the heavy corrosion between my third-party copper IHS and Conductnaut, I tried my best to clean the IHS but it still looks bad and feels rough.

Pics here:
 
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IceIceBear

Chassis Packer
Mar 5, 2018
14
23
No worries as my tests were kinda messed up tbh, so far I haven't notice any significant temp improvements during my use of this PC (light-weight gaming for the most of time). I will have another 8700k tomorrow to try out, so I can do more tests about the C7, sadly I've sold my Alu C7 so no comparisons.

EDIT: Just read IntoxicatedPuma's tests, seems like his results were actually similar to mine given the testing specs, read here: Low Profile CPU Cooler round up

Also another thing worth mentioning is the cooler orientation of course. I aligned fins parallel to the RAM sticks after I found the airflow will be restricted if cooler was mounted sideways.


Thanks for the reply, I'll share my thoughts here:

1) Luckily I'll have another brand new boxed 8700k arriving tomorrow, ordered this because I'm just trying my luck to see if I can win silicon lottery for even once. In this case I may do a delid vs non-delid comparison with my current setup using same chip, it should help you to decide whether to delid yours.

My thoughts: this is not throttling, as the chip is still running above base frequency, I've encountered same situation, googled and found it's due to wattage constrains. My workaround is to set max current (cant remember the exact name) to 255.5. Gmaing or CPU test are not as intense as FPU hence you can get stable 4.3 on all cores.

2) Yes coil whine is sooooo annoying, before my itx build, my PSU (Corsair AX860) had coil whine under load and my GPUs (I had Gigabyte 1080Ti Auros*2, EVGA 1080&1070 FTW) were having coil whine during load as well (except 1070FTW). The card I'm currently using (EVGA 1080Ti SC2) doesn't have coil whine though. This really depends on your luck I guess, I can live with it as I use headset during gaming sessions so I can barely hear it.

My goal of the build is to create the ultra silent PC during light usage, once CPU & GPU had high usage, fans will be ramping up, the rig will still become noisy. There're some of my tips if you're building silent A4 rig:
1. Replace the stock SF600 PSU fan. My SF600 fan will constantly running on high rpm even during ilde (replaced 2 units, can confirm it's not a faulty PSU). The reasons I can think of: 0-rpm mode threshold is too low; GPU heat conducted to the back of PSU case.
2. Replace the stock GPU fan. All my GPU fans will produce high-pitched noise during low rpm, this is really annoying. Nvidia cards should have 0-rpm mode but I'm running 2 monitors with 2 different refresh rates (165 and 60hz), then the core clocks won't drop to low range during web surfing and light use. So the fans will ramp up and down every several minutes. Replaced the fans with 2 * Noctua A9x14, this really helps.
3. Do not use HDD, for obvious reasons (acoustically).
4. Mount dust filters carefully to prevent fan interference.

1) I see. Actually, I'm not trying to walk around it, but want to know what's the actual cause. In fact, it kinda of help to operate my 8700K in a safe temp range in the sacrifice of speed at max temp? I was thinking if I walk around it and allow it to run at 4.3 continuously, the temp will probably shoot up to 100 C? Since higher power limit means more heat? By the way, I also notice similar down clock in blender BMW render test, but it only does down to 4.2 Ghz. In that sense, your measures are really helping the temp, coz you can run at full 4.3 speed under FPU test.

2) Hahaha, in that case, I'm okay with it. The founder's edition 1080 runs quiet at idle. And I'm using an SF450 indeed, I don't have the similar problem though, it's not noisy at all. The only thing creating noise in my case while idle is the C7, the turbulence is really there, but Noctua fan is really ugly... I'm using two M.2 ssd so no HHD too haha. I think that you are going to get a Dan case as well? Just wanna say that the clearance between the side panel and the C7 stock fan is really just 1mm though, I'm not sure about adding dust filter there. On a side note, Founder card really reduce case temp by a lot.

Would love to hear more advice from you;), chat in real time would be so much better. Can I add you on wechat haha?
 
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IceIceBear

Chassis Packer
Mar 5, 2018
14
23
So got another 8700K today, batch# L803, a pretty new batch. Tested on my ASUS Z370i, all BIOS settings on default except disabling MCE, I can get into OS and run CPU-Z with x50 all core at 1.25V, mediocre chip I would say, but still much better than my previous L730 chip, cant get into OS even with x48 at 1.25v.

Then I delid this chip, use Conductnaut as LM, Shin-Etsu 7921 as paste. I passed 10 mins AIDA64 FPU when x45 at 1.14v. Then few more runs, already updated in the shared excel sheet in 1# post

One more thing worth mentioning is the heavy corrosion between my third-party copper IHS and Conductnaut, I tried my best to clean the IHS but it still looks bad and feels rough.

Pics here:


I tried your method just now haha. I also tried 5.1 Ghz, can't boot into the OS. How to tell what's good, what's bad? Mine is from batch L745.
 

Hudzzy

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Apr 11, 2018
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1) I see. Actually, I'm not trying to walk around it, but want to know what's the actual cause. In fact, it kinda of help to operate my 8700K in a safe temp range in the sacrifice of speed at max temp? I was thinking if I walk around it and allow it to run at 4.3 continuously, the temp will probably shoot up to 100 C? Since higher power limit means more heat? By the way, I also notice similar down clock in blender BMW render test, but it only does down to 4.2 Ghz. In that sense, your measures are really helping the temp, coz you can run at full 4.3 speed under FPU test.

2) Hahaha, in that case, I'm okay with it. The founder's edition 1080 runs quiet at idle. And I'm using an SF450 indeed, I don't have the similar problem though, it's not noisy at all. The only thing creating noise in my case while idle is the C7, the turbulence is really there, but Noctua fan is really ugly... I'm using too M.2 ssd so no HHD too haha. I think that you are going to get a Dan case as well? Just wanna say that the clearance between the side panel and the C7 stock fan is really just 1mm though, I;m not sure about adding dust filter there. On a side note, Founder card really reduce case temp by a lot.

Would love to hear more advice from you;), chat in real time would be so much better. Can I add you on wechat haha?


I tried your method just now haha. I also tried 5.1 Ghz, can't boot into the OS. How to tell what's good, what's bad? Mine is from batch L745.
Probably :D. I'm not getting Dan A4, the reasons as you just mentioned, one of them is the 1mm clearance issue, and I always put filters on top.. it would be pretty noisy I imagine. Another thing is that Dan A4 lacks case fan mounts comparing to ZS-A4, adding 2 noctua fans at the bottom should help a bit as I'm using non-reference card.

Imo, if the chip can do x50 at 1.2v or less, then it should be a good overclocker; if the voltage is over 1.3v, then it is a bad one. You can set the multiplier of all cores to 50 then try to find the lowest voltage you can get into the OS. Mine was 1.25v. Normally chips from same batch should have similar OC potential, however the previous one I got is L730, which is known to be a good batch, but my chip was really bad at OC.

BTW I had the same wallpaper as yours, got it from MKBHD. :p
 
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IceIceBear

Chassis Packer
Mar 5, 2018
14
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Probably :D. I'm not getting Dan A4, the reasons as you just mentioned, one of them is the 1mm clearance issue, and I always put filters on top.. it would be pretty noisy I imagine. Another thing is that Dan A4 lacks case fan mounts comparing to ZS-A4, adding 2 noctua fans at the bottom should help a bit as I'm using non-reference card.

Imo, if the chip can do x50 at 1.2v or less, then it should be a good overclocker; if the voltage is over 1.3v, then it is a bad one. You can set the multiplier of all cores to 50 then try to find the lowest voltage you can get into the OS. Mine was 1.25v. Normally chips from same batch should have similar OC potential, however the previous one I got is L730, which is known to be a good batch, but my chip was really bad at OC.

BTW I had the same wallpaper as yours, got it from MKBHD. :p

ZS-A4 is really of good value, but I fell in love with the sleek look of dan case, and Lian Li's precision and quality in construction.

The case fan is really an issue with dan case, but I think at this form factor, can't really do any high OC with any cooler available, "jiu bu yao shen me zi xing che le". I mounted an intake fan at the hard drive bay anyway, mine is dan case v2. How much did it help with your two bottom fans though? Have you done any test?

I tried lower voltage with 5.0 ghz, from 1,20 1,21 1.22 1.23 and 1.24 and I gave up:(

Yeahhh, that's a really nice wallpaper, especially with 21:9 ratio.
 
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Hudzzy

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Apr 11, 2018
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ZS-A4 is really of good value, but Yan Zhi to me is more important HAHAHA. I fell in love with the sleek look.

The case fan is really an issue with dan case, but I think at this form factor, can't really do any high OC with any cooler available, "jiu bu yao shen me zi xing che le". I mounted an intake fan at the hard drive bay anyway, mine is dan case v2. How much did it help with your two bottom fans though? Have you done any test?

I tried lower voltage with 5.0 ghz, from 1,20 1,21 1.22 1.23 and 1.24 and I gave up:(

Yeahhh, that's a really nice wallpaper, especially with 21:9 ratio.
This ZS-A4 actually cost me 1700 CNY lol, I got this when I was in the UK. But I have to say the honeycomb design does look ugly indeed.

I havent tested the rig without case fans, although I can imagine them keep the airflow going.

As for the wallpaper, you can get more from the artist here if you're interested: http://www.facets.la/

Seems like ur chip has similar OC potential to mine, I would recommend delid anyways :p

Could you share some pics of your build? Would love to see more A4 builds, I like this concept of case so much :D
 
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IceIceBear

Chassis Packer
Mar 5, 2018
14
23
This ZS-A4 actually cost me 1700 CNY lol, I got this when I was in the UK. But I have to say the honeycomb design do look ugly.

I havent tested the rig without case fans, although I can imagine them keep the airflow going.

As for the wallpaper, you can get more from the artist here if you're interested: http://www.facets.la/

Seems like ur chip has similar OC potential to mine, I would recommend delid anyways :p

Could you share some pics of your build? Would love to see more A4 builds, I like this concept of case so much :D

WOW 1700 rmb is similar to the cost of a dan case already...

I don't have the tool for delidding at the moment, for the current usage of my system, I hardly reach the thermal limit (I'm also quite lazy to tear the system apart and put together, again and again, HAHAHA, such a pain to work with itx), maybe when there is newer cooler comes out for the dan case, I will do something with delidding. I hope to see better cooler for A4 case.

I have posted a thread previously for my build, here is the link: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...timers-perspective-i7-8700k-gtx-1070-ti.6906/