^ That's awesome. Just curious but what would the max length be, because I think that render with the button at the bottom is fantastic.
Production Observer Slim
- Thread starter kviker
- Start date
Thanks for the answers, they really help to visualize the whole thing.
The slightly off-center position of the button seems like best, but that's my function-over-form talking. Based on the looks I'd go for the lowest one since it really makes Observer distinctly different from Sentry. Still unsure if anybody else would sacrifice GPU length for that, but I know I will.
The slightly off-center position of the button seems like best, but that's my function-over-form talking. Based on the looks I'd go for the lowest one since it really makes Observer distinctly different from Sentry. Still unsure if anybody else would sacrifice GPU length for that, but I know I will.
Yeah, when people credit their source it makes ALL the difference in the world. At least to me.
I like your take on this, @kviker . Nice work!
Is there a way to have the GPU face the same way the CPU faces? That way the case can lay flat and not suffocate one or the other?
Looking at it, seems like a large endeavor. Large sections of the case appear based around the orientation of the gpu.
Wow. Just like i told Netzon from Netzon case project, it is great that we have more and more people who are trying to make some improvements in console style cases. This really can move the project forward. Maybe someday together with the community we will be able to design a gold spot between power efficiency, performance and heat dissipation. It's great we have you here
I have some initial thoughts you should consider before making costly prototypes:
1. When you were copying Sentry, just by changing the position of the stand to make your case look different, you made several mistakes, which probably would kill your whole project. Why you want your vertical stand in that place? It would be great if you could make a better Sentry, but by only changing it looks, you won't achieve this goal. Read our topic in [H], [SFF] and [LTT] forum. This is a community project so we talked there about everything someone would like to know. If you want to make a better product, use that knowledge mate. For us it is not a problem if you make a copy of Sentry. We made it together with the community. The problem comes when you will just copy our ideas and you won't make them work better, because it will look like you just want to do it for money not to make progress.
2. Hdd/ssd bracket (very similar to the one from Josh's NFC S4 Mini) can be ok if you will be using GPU's with low power consumption. However with this layout of components you allow GPU's probably up to 305 mm, so people would use graphics cards which back can heat up to over 100 deg C, while today's HDDs are designed to work with 0-65 deg C environment (example). I talked about it with Netzon, and we have tested it with Sentry project, and also Ncase team tested this with their console-style project. This location for hdds is probably the worst case scenario. If you already made some prototypes, please check how the back of your hdd heats up from graphics card during heavy GPU load.
3. You have to many bendings in your design while not so many elements. If you are not going wto invest in molds, then there are many spots in your main part, that will be very hard to do and if, it will be quite costly, because the repeatability within the series will be very low. At first look your idea looks cheaper in manufacturing than our Sentry, but with our current knowledge we know that if you go with standard inhouse production methods you will have many units which will have to be made again (tolerance errors).
I think this is enough for now, I could write at least 30 other points what should be changed in this design, but we (and other people) were talking about it in our topics. We always encourage people to make better products. We all are here mostly because big companies don't listen to us (end users) and they don't make products we really want. If you are making a product which will just ba a copy of another product without making any improvements, then please stop. If it is just a beginning of making something better, then please keep up the good work!
And for people who thinks kviker made just a copy of Sentry: please let him finish!!! It would be great if he would be able to design better case, because it will make a progress. If someone designed a car and noone would like to improve it, we still would be riding with steam engines and with wooden wheels
^Yes, copy with credit. Just like in the Scientific/Academic community. Cite sources and inspiration and then everyone wants to help make something better. Just taking something because someone thinks they are owed it is low class and doesn't make friends.
So thanks again to Kviker.
So thanks again to Kviker.
might be a bit off topic, but at how many cases does it make sense to switch to molds instead of normal bending?Wow. Just like i told Netzon from Netzon case project, it is great that we have more and more people who are trying to make some improvements in console style cases. This really can move the project forward. Maybe someday together with the community we will be able to design a gold spot between power efficiency, performance and heat dissipation. It's great we have you here
I have some initial thoughts you should consider before making costly prototypes:
1. When you were copying Sentry, just by changing the position of the stand to make your case look different, you made several mistakes, which probably would kill your whole project. Why you want your vertical stand in that place? It would be great if you could make a better Sentry, but by only changing it looks, you won't achieve this goal. Read our topic in [H], [SFF] and [LTT] forum. This is a community project so we talked there about everything someone would like to know. If you want to make a better product, use that knowledge mate. For us it is not a problem if you make a copy of Sentry. We made it together with the community. The problem comes when you will just copy our ideas and you won't make them work better, because it will look like you just want to do it for money not to make progress.
2. Hdd/ssd bracket (very similar to the one from Josh's NFC S4 Mini) can be ok if you will be using GPU's with low power consumption. However with this layout of components you allow GPU's probably up to 305 mm, so people would use graphics cards which back can heat up to over 100 deg C, while today's HDDs are designed to work with 0-65 deg C environment (example). I talked about it with Netzon, and we have tested it with Sentry project, and also Ncase team tested this with their console-style project. This location for hdds is probably the worst case scenario. If you already made some prototypes, please check how the back of your hdd heats up from graphics card during heavy GPU load.
3. You have to many bendings in your design while not so many elements. If you are not going wto invest in molds, then there are many spots in your main part, that will be very hard to do and if, it will be quite costly, because the repeatability within the series will be very low. At first look your idea looks cheaper in manufacturing than our Sentry, but with our current knowledge we know that if you go with standard inhouse production methods you will have many units which will have to be made again (tolerance errors).
I think this is enough for now, I could write at least 30 other points what should be changed in this design, but we (and other people) were talking about it in our topics. We always encourage people to make better products. We all are here mostly because big companies don't listen to us (end users) and they don't make products we really want. If you are making a product which will just ba a copy of another product without making any improvements, then please stop. If it is just a beginning of making something better, then please keep up the good work!
And for people who thinks kviker made just a copy of Sentry: please let him finish!!! It would be great if he would be able to design better case, because it will make a progress. If someone designed a car and noone would like to improve it, we still would be riding with steam engines and with wooden wheels
It would be great if i could answer you with writing just a simple number
There are many books elaborating about whole decision process which is based on such things like the complexity of the product itself, your manufacturing possibilities (what kind of machines you already have, or if you have some access to them), location where are you going to produce your product (local costs of work and materials), time you want to spend on manufacturing the whole series or even about the standard logistics (how many people you want to hire, how many series will be made in the future, can your molds be used for some other products or can they be sold to some other company after you won't need them any more, etc., etc.)
I can give you only roughly estimation which is based on our knowledge about our product, because every product is different so it will need more or less molds and automatic machines which are more or less complicated and are more or less costly. Before the indiegogo campaign we made some calculations, and for Sentry we should get something like 5000 units order to start even thinking about using molds. We never made a full calculation for molds (for example, how many molds have to be damaged before we get the right one), because we even weren't sure if we will get a 100 units order during the campaign (in one of the straw polls, after 2 weeks we couldn't even get 100 votes/answers for one of our questions). With best case scenario, probably we could start working with molds even with 3000 units order, but as you know, best case scenario doesn't happen very often. What is more, for most of the big companies, 5000 units is still a small series, so the prices which you can receive aren't so great.
The best answer for you may be the one which we received from the PR lady from the one of the chinese laser cutting companies, which we asked about the prices for a simple product/element, to just find out if the future cooperation is possible. She said they will manufacture molds for us and they have proper bending presses for all the purposes we need. When we start talking about the prices, she asked how many units we would like to order... 10, 20... or 100. In another email she added that she was talking about thousands... obviously. Few other companies also told us that they can be our OEM manufacturer but the minimum order quantity must be at least 10 000 units.
Maybe making a final mold isn't as costly as many people think (scale can justify the price), but to make a proper mold you have to waste some time and resources, and you also have to damage some bad molds until you will receive the best one for your product. And with our product you will need not only one mold, but a big set of molds. Bigger companies often already have some molds which you can use and make your design according to their production capabilities (I think A4-SFX and Ncase M1 were made in this way, because many Lian-Li cases have similar bendings like those 2 cases, but i may be wrong in this one). In this situation you can make your product with even less than 2000 units order, but you are limited with the molds your manufacturer has and because he already has those molds, he will for sure add something to your final invoice (molds while using also wears out). Also with small scale (<10 000 units) prices which you will get from your OEM manufacturer are higher, because companies who already make some products don't want to waste their time for small orders like 1000-3000 units, and if they do, they want a properly higher amount for that, which will make your case more expensive for end user.
Heh, i tried to answer shortly, but it turns out I made another essay...sorry
wow, thanks for the complete explentation!It would be great if i could answer you with writing just a simple number
There are many books elaborating about whole decision process which is based on such things like the complexity of the product itself, your manufacturing possibilities (what kind of machines you already have, or if you have some access to them), location where are you going to produce your product (local costs of work and materials), time you want to spend on manufacturing the whole series or even about the standard logistics (how many people you want to hire, how many series will be made in the future, can your molds be used for some other products or can they be sold to some other company after you won't need them any more, etc., etc.)
I can give you only roughly estimation which is based on our knowledge about our product, because every product is different so it will need more or less molds and automatic machines which are more or less complicated and are more or less costly. Before the indiegogo campaign we made some calculations, and for Sentry we should get something like 5000 units order to start even thinking about using molds. We never made a full calculation for molds (for example, how many molds have to be damaged before we get the right one), because we even weren't sure if we will get a 100 units order during the campaign (in one of the straw polls, after 2 weeks we couldn't even get 100 votes/answers for one of our questions). With best case scenario, probably we could start working with molds even with 3000 units order, but as you know, best case scenario doesn't happen very often. What is more, for most of the big companies, 5000 units is still a small series, so the prices which you can receive aren't so great.
The best answer for you may be the one which we received from the PR lady from the one of the chinese laser cutting companies, which we asked about the prices for a simple product/element, to just find out if the future cooperation is possible. She said they will manufacture molds for us and they have proper bending presses for all the purposes we need. When we start talking about the prices, she asked how many units we would like to order... 10, 20... or 100. In another email she added that she was talking about thousands... obviously. Few other companies also told us that they can be our OEM manufacturer but the minimum order quantity must be at least 10 000 units.
Maybe making a final mold isn't as costly as many people think (scale can justify the price), but to make a proper mold you have to waste some time and resources, and you also have to damage some bad molds until you will receive the best one for your product. And with our product you will need not only one mold, but a big set of molds. Bigger companies often already have some molds which you can use and make your design according to their production capabilities (I think A4-SFX and Ncase M1 were made in this way, because many Lian-Li cases have similar bendings like those 2 cases, but i may be wrong in this one). In this situation you can make your product with even less than 2000 units order, but you are limited with the molds your manufacturer has and because he already has those molds, he will for sure add something to your final invoice (molds while using also wears out). Also with small scale (<10 000 units) prices which you will get from your OEM manufacturer are higher, because companies who already make some products don't want to waste their time for small orders like 1000-3000 units, and if they do, they want a properly higher amount for that, which will make your case more expensive for end user.
Heh, i tried to answer shortly, but it turns out I made another essay...sorry
Reminds me of the time I was talking to an engineering firm to help us with a one-off design of a crane counterweight. They came back with a fee higher than my estimated fabrication and material cost for the unit. (We passed.)
Thank you Josh! Your videos helped me many times!
Wow. Just like i told Netzon from Netzon case project, it is great that we have more and more people who are trying to make some improvements in console style cases. This really can move the project forward. Maybe someday together with the community we will be able to design a gold spot between power efficiency, performance and heat dissipation. It's great we have you here
I have some initial thoughts you should consider before making costly prototypes:
1. When you were copying Sentry, just by changing the position of the stand to make your case look different, you made several mistakes, which probably would kill your whole project. Why you want your vertical stand in that place? It would be great if you could make a better Sentry, but by only changing it looks, you won't achieve this goal. Read our topic in [H], [SFF] and [LTT] forum. This is a community project so we talked there about everything someone would like to know. If you want to make a better product, use that knowledge mate. For us it is not a problem if you make a copy of Sentry. We made it together with the community. The problem comes when you will just copy our ideas and you won't make them work better, because it will look like you just want to do it for money not to make progress.
2. Hdd/ssd bracket (very similar to the one from Josh's NFC S4 Mini) can be ok if you will be using GPU's with low power consumption. However with this layout of components you allow GPU's probably up to 305 mm, so people would use graphics cards which back can heat up to over 100 deg C, while today's HDDs are designed to work with 0-65 deg C environment (example). I talked about it with Netzon, and we have tested it with Sentry project, and also Ncase team tested this with their console-style project. This location for hdds is probably the worst case scenario. If you already made some prototypes, please check how the back of your hdd heats up from graphics card during heavy GPU load.
3. You have to many bendings in your design while not so many elements. If you are not going wto invest in molds, then there are many spots in your main part, that will be very hard to do and if, it will be quite costly, because the repeatability within the series will be very low. At first look your idea looks cheaper in manufacturing than our Sentry, but with our current knowledge we know that if you go with standard inhouse production methods you will have many units which will have to be made again (tolerance errors).
I think this is enough for now, I could write at least 30 other points what should be changed in this design, but we (and other people) were talking about it in our topics. We always encourage people to make better products. We all are here mostly because big companies don't listen to us (end users) and they don't make products we really want. If you are making a product which will just ba a copy of another product without making any improvements, then please stop. If it is just a beginning of making something better, then please keep up the good work!
And for people who thinks kviker made just a copy of Sentry: please let him finish!!! It would be great if he would be able to design better case, because it will make a progress. If someone designed a car and noone would like to improve it, we still would be riding with steam engines and with wooden wheels
Hi ZombiPL, thank you for the detailed review!
1. Sorry i don't understand about vertical stand... Maybe my english so bad >_<
The first goal was the creation a lower-price analog, maybe it's better... in some ways.
2. Yes, you right. I think m2 ssd better way to use with hi-tdp graphics card. What about ssd? As I understand it, they are not as critical to temperature?
Anyway i have an idea, about ssd\hdd, but im not sure about this... Need prototyped and tested
3. I think is not for mass manufacturing, As I said, I wanted to make a cheaper alternative, now we are talking about 120$ with pci-e riser or 95$ without.
Hi guys! Ihave some news: black color slim, with slight modifications.
was redesigned back panel and a tray for installing a large graphics card
the customer is also asked me make a detachable ventilation in front of the graphics card.
was redesigned back panel and a tray for installing a large graphics card
the customer is also asked me make a detachable ventilation in front of the graphics card.
A few words about the new position of the card:
1. raiser conflicts with the cooler, if the position of the socket on the bottom.
2. if the graphics card is standard size (or little oversized), the bottom is a place for the power connector.
3. If the card is oversized, then there is a special cutout for the power cable.
4. there is no spase for SSD\HDD near the videocard, so i found only one way:
18+ mess, sorry not have cables for good assembly, and time (case already gone to the customer)
1. raiser conflicts with the cooler, if the position of the socket on the bottom.
18+ mess, sorry not have cables for good assembly, and time (case already gone to the customer)
Got photo from customer:
And two shots from "Igromir" expo on ASUS stand. Paintjob by EvoPC.
And two shots from "Igromir" expo on ASUS stand. Paintjob by EvoPC.
That looks pretty badass, man.Got photo from customer:
And two shots from "Igromir" expo on ASUS stand. Paintjob by EvoPC.
Beautiful pictures but where in the world is our in depth showcase??? This should have had loads of pictures at all angles so we could gawk at every one. And did you do the paint job or did the customer do that himself?
Oh cusstomer instal PSU wrong side. Thats new photo:
i7 7700k
Asrock Z270 itx/ac
G.Skill Trident Z 3866
Corsair SF600
Palit 1080 Gamerock
i7 7700k
Asrock Z270 itx/ac
G.Skill Trident Z 3866
Corsair SF600
Palit 1080 Gamerock
Last edited:
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