Log My SFF builds / journey

[thelaughingman]

What made you choose Crosshair VIII Impact? It doesn't seem to add that many features compared to X570-I to justify the non-standard form factor.

primarily for classic layout - no more riser shenanigans, both M.2 are on the SODIMM card so much more convenient, and a tons of more watercooling features / support now that I'm completely into custom loop.

still love the T1 to bits, but don't really need my build to be under-10L and can justify 12-13L a lot more

 

[tinyitx]

still love the T1 to bits, but don't really need my build to be under-10L and can justify 12-13L a lot more

Looks like you are the first member here who self heals from the T1 bug bite

 

[thelaughingman]

Looks like you are the first member here who self heals from the T1 bug bite

that's because I've always carried the Dan-virus in me

 

[Lucas]

Nice one! Noctuas slim fans are the best, just bought one for my setup.

 

[thelaughingman]

It's been a while and I just can't leave the build alone



What happened?

• Got a good deal on a Crosshair VIII Impact for 100USD off MSRP, thus wanting to switch over to the Dan-C4 and get back to the Classic layout. No more fiddling with PCIE riser
• Since the C4 is delayed with earliest launch date of Q3 2021, decided to get an NR200 as a low-cost placeholder, plus it allows me to practice building loop with multiple radiators
• Transplanted the entire build over and the X570-I died on me - 5V is fine (Audio jack LEDs, RGB LEDs all light up) but no 12V power. So it is now being service-repaired.

Thus the empty-internal of the build.

What will happen next?

• Swap out some of the TPV 90 degree fittings with Koolance Elbow rotary, the goal is to have the side rad rotatable and swing out like a door for ease of working on internal components
• Ryzen 9 5950X is incoming - I decided to just max out on AM4 as Zen 3 just has so much performance uplift vs Zen 2 and the Impact deserves TOTL CPU really
• Grabbed a 2080ti with Corsair XG7 block for 600USD - no point fighting for stock of the new GPUs right now. And the plan has always been to get a Liquid Devil version of 6800XT or 6900XT down the line so 2080ti is as good a placeholder as it can be

Some may ask what my use cases are to justify such top-tier components and it's nothing special really. I just want to be able to have 40+ Chrome tab (mostly Youtube videos), Bluestacks (4C/8T + 16GB of RAM allocated) and whatever AAA games I play running at 3840x1600 @160Hz SIMULTANEOUSLY AND SMOOTHLY.

Until next time!

 

[thelaughingman]

this is what came out of me being bored to death last night waiting for stuff



Observations:

• In terms of cooling per litre: Slim > Thick and 240 > 280. Thus GTS 240 and SF 240 are at the top of the table. Interestingly the GTS 280 is more efficient than the GTR 240 but only gives 50W more than the GTS 240
• Within HWL stacks, despite 100W lower cooling capacity due to 2 less tubes, the SF 240 (LS-series) is still one of the most efficient because of reduced width

My conundrums are as follow:

• For now with the NR200 I can actually fit a GTR 280 as the side radiator, as it stands with the SF 240 there's a not-so-unsubstantial volume in the middle of the case that occupies nothing.
• On one hand, if I purchase the GTR 280 there is no chance it will ever fit in the C4. On the other hand, I don't expect to have the C4 in hand in 2021 given Dan's stated timeline, thus it would still be a full year of use
• And as we move on to the C4, yes it should fit dual slim 280mm radiator but at this point is it even worth it since slim 240 is just so much more effective volume-wise and would make building a lot easier
• If settle for 240 slim rad I'm not too sure If I want to go through the trouble getting the GTS 240 since I'll have to import it from PPCS whereas I can get the SF 240 locally in store

At this point I'd say planning the build is more fun/headache than actual building itself

 

[thelaughingman]

TL;DR: EVERYTHING FUCKING WORKS NOW!!!

I thought I broke the motherboard back in January when I put the NR200 build together - the only new component at the time was the 2080Ti replacing the Pulse 5700XT - I test boot the 2080Ti before the build but only to POST, not into Windows. And all hell broke loose after that 1st boot into Windows (crashed after a couple of minutes)

The issue: the build would POST successfully but then auto reboot after it got to the ROG logo/before booting into Windows. This is documented in ASUS support page as Situation 2 of Scenario 2 "Machines auto reboot before Windows system. (ASUS logo/Windows logo)"

• Passed all LED component checked - Asus boards have 4 LEDs, 1 for each of RAM, CPU, VGA and BOOT drive
• Can stay in BIOS 24/7 without issue, tested the 981a in BIOS and it came back pass
• Various BIOS versions (from version 3003 to some beta versions and finally version 3204) and flashing have no effect
• Cannot boot from USB drives with Windows installer despite all peripherals / USB ports working normally

The suspected hardware culprit:

• Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Impact - was in service center for almost 2 months. the technician there was able to replicate my issue with his hardware
• RAM: 2x 32GB Corsair 3200Mhz C16-20-20 kit
• M.2 drives:
  • Samsung PM981a: the previous OS drive that I was using throughout 2020; had AMD Adrenalin driver installed
  • WD SN850: the new OS drive that I just got as an upgrade

So, last Saturday I collected the board from the service center and they fixed absolutely NOTHING. I assembled everything on the MB box and over the weekend I just turned it on sometimes to see if there's any changes. And it was the same issues - auto reboot after ROG logo shows up (successful POST).

Yesterday I looked up the board warranty and it is fully warrantied until 2023 but only in the US so I was ready to initiate RMA and send the board back. Then somehow I thought let's give it 1 more try, for half and hour last night. At first the issue persists, then suddenly windows automatic repair kicked in. When I got to that screen previously I selected startup repair and it did jack shit. This time I selected system restore instead - and rolled Windows back to the working state all the way back in early January.

VOILA! Now I could boot into Windows, boot into USB stick that has Windows installer but in Windows after 10 minutes it locked up. That's when I knew I was on to something. After the lock up it would not boot but stuck at RAM. So I removed 1 stick and bloody hell every thing worked perfectly. Then I began to test each stick separately in each RAM slot and it all WORKED. So it's definitely NOT hardware related.

With 1 stick of RAM I was able to copied all the personal files I needed from the 981a and install Windows to the SN850. Then I turned to both sticks and it would not boot again, stuck at RAM LED. Luckily the board has a retry button and safe boot button - pressed retry a couple of times and it booted. Since then everything has been smooth sailing and working as it should.

After all of this, the only conclusion I could get is that somehow the 2080Ti triggered something in Windows (had AMD Adrenalin at the time) during 1st boot, then that crashed caused conflicts or something with the RAM sticks and the board just refused to boot. And then System restore was the key to fixing everything even though logically it should not have. At this point I'm just thankful that this nightmare is finally over and I can finally put the NR200 build together this weekend! Triple radiator here I come!

 

[tinyitx]

TL;DR: EVERYTHING FUCKING WORKS NOW!!!

I thought I broke the motherboard back in January when I put the NR200 build together - the only new component at the time was the 2080Ti replacing the Pulse 5700XT - I test boot the 2080Ti before the build but only to POST, not into Windows. And all hell broke loose after that 1st boot into Windows (crashed after a couple of minutes)

The issue: the build would POST successfully but then auto reboot after it got to the ROG logo/before booting into Windows. This is documented in ASUS support page as Situation 2 of Scenario 2 "Machines auto reboot before Windows system. (ASUS logo/Windows logo)"

• Passed all LED component checked - Asus boards have 4 LEDs, 1 for each of RAM, CPU, VGA and BOOT drive
• Can stay in BIOS 24/7 without issue, tested M.2 in BIOS and it came back pass
• Various BIOS versions and flashing have no effect
• Cannot boot from USB Windows despite all peripherals / USB ports working normally

The suspected hardware culprit:

• MB: the Impact board - was in service center for almost 2 months. the technician there was able to replicate my issue with his hardware
• RAM: 2x 32GB Corsair 3200Mhz C16
• M.2:
  • Samsung PM981a: the previous OS drive that I was using throughout 2020; had AMD Adrenalin driver installed
  • WD SN850: the new OS drive that I just got as an upgrade

So, last Saturday I collected the board from the service center and they fixed absolutely NOTHING. I assembled everything on the MB box and over the weekend I just turned it on sometimes to see if there's any changes. And it was the same issues - auto reboot after ROG logo shows up (successful POST).

Yesterday I looked up the board warranty and it is fully warrantied until 2023 but only in the US so I was ready to initiate RMA and send the board back. Then somehow I thought let's give it 1 more try, for half and hour last night. At first the issue persists, then suddenly windows automatic repair kicked in. When I got to that screen previously I selected startup repair and it did jack shit. This time I selected system restore instead - and rolled Windows back to the working state all the way back in early January.

VOILA! Now I could boot into Windows, boot into USB stick that has Windows installer but in Windows after 10 minutes it locked up. That's when I knew I was on to something. After the lock up it would not boot but stuck at RAM. So I removed 1 stick and bloody hell every thing worked perfectly. Then I began to test each stick separately in each RAM slot and it all WORKED. So it's definitely NOT hardware related.

With 1 stick of RAM I was able to copied all the personal files I needed from the 981a and install Windows in the SN850. Then I turned to both sticks and it would not boot again, stuck at RAM LED. Luckily the board has a retry button and safe boot button - pressed retry a couple of times and it booted. Since then everything has been smooth sailing and working as it should.

After all of this, the only conclusion I could get is that somehow the 2080Ti triggered something in Windows (had AMD Adrenalin at the time) during 1st boot, then that crashed caused conflicts or something with the RAM sticks and the board just refused to boot. And then System restore was the key to fixing everything even though logically it should not have. At this point I'm just thankful that this nightmare is finally over and I can finally put the NR200 build together this weekend! Triple radiator here I come!

This kind of experience sharing is important as it will now be part of the permanent collective data available in the web. Before the internet era, when one has a problem, one can only ask around his friends for similar experience. Now, when one has a problem, he can just use keywords to search other people's similar experience and likely to learn ways to solve his.
Suggest you to put some more keywords to this post to make it more unique and searchable (eg crosshair viii impact).

 

[thelaughingman]

I guess my ordeal wasn't done. After a few days running normally, the auto-reboot issue returned but this time the boot LED got stuck on RAM a lot more. After a lot of trial and error I ended up with running the RAM in default. The moment I turn on DOCP in Bios, it will auto-reboot like hell. At this point not sure if the RAM has became bad or it's still a motherboard issue. Other than that everything working perfectly.

So I decided to hell with XMP and fully built the loop a couple of days ago. And She LIVES!



My loop order is pump -> gpu -> cpu -> top rad -> side rad -> bottom rad -> pump. As expected, flow rate sucks balls with all the adapter and I have to run the pump at 3500RPM to get decent flow rate. I have Water Out sensor for water coming out of the cpu block and Water In sensor for water coming in to the pump after the 3 rads. At 3500RPM pump, the delta of Water Out - Water In is only 3-4C, if I slow the pump down to 2000-2500RPM this delta balloons to 6-7C

In terms of temps the GPU is the biggest beneficiaries - idling at 36 (ambient 30C) and never got above 60C even at full power and full load. I had to learn how to use MSI Afterburner since AMD Adrenalin spoilt me for so long - 6 years of GPUs from 290X-RX480-Vega64-5700XT. Though one thing that disappointed me somewhat is the CPU temps & performance vs. single EK 240 AIO in open bench. In Cinebench R23 with the loop my sustained all cores clock is about 250Mhz lower than with the EK AIO at max pump & fan RPMs in both setups. Guess that is to be expected since the GPU is now in the loop and the GPU feeds and the coolant coming out of the pump (33C) makes a stop at the GPU first and gets much warmer.

In theory, under large enough load and over long enough period of time, the temps of the entire loop equalises but this has not been the case for mine. The Water In temp remains very stable 32-33C, whilst the Water Out temp reaches 52C max. Should I change the loop order to get 1-2 rad in between the GPU & CPU instead? Also now I see why in large loop like this (1) D5 is preferred over DDC - much better flow rate for quieter operation; and (2) dual loop exists to separate the heat source. Both of which are very hard to achieve with SFF

EDIT: notice how the RGB on the waterblock is synced with everything else? 1 very good discovery is that you can give the Corsair Commander Pro or whatever a big F - Asus motherboards (at least the 2 models that I have used - Crosshair VIII Impact and X570-i Strix) come with RGB adapter that has the correct pinout for the RGB connector of the Corsair block

EDIT 2: forgot to mention that I name this build Black Water

 

[eedev]

Wow! You sure have a lot of cooling power in here! Nice nice nice!

 

[thelaughingman]

Wow! You sure have a lot of cooling power in here! Nice nice nice!

thank you! I sorta talked myself in to the challenge, similar to how difficult dual rad in the T1 was! Using OC scanner in MSI Afterburner, even as it pushed 2050Mhz core clock the GPU core temp only reached 62C, and this is in 30C ambient no less. Imagine how cold this would be if I were living somewhere with 15-20C ambient

Btw really awesome work you're doing with the front distro plate for the T1 though, can't get enough of that stuff!

 

[thelaughingman]

And I had to do it - changing the loop order so the CPU gets priority over the GPU!



I was not happy with the CPU temps after putting all the panels back on even at normal usage. Draining and then bleeding the loop is such a pain with the damn TechN block just keeps sucking them in and keeping them there air bubbles just continue to hangout at the top of the block

The new coolant flow is pump -> CPU -> GPU -> water OUT sensor -> top rad -> side rad -> bottom rad -> water IN sensor -> pump. Both sensors are reporting similar temps as before but component temps are obviously different. The 2080Ti is now idling at 40-42C instead of the chill 36C it was before but the trade-off is worth it as the 5900X is running cooler and able to boost 200Mhz all cores higher than before when running Cinebench R23.

 

[jaeparku]

Compared to the many cases you had, how are you liking the NR200?

 

[thelaughingman]

Compared to the many cases you had, how are you liking the NR200?

my previous cases were all boutiques, alumnium sub-10L enclosures and expensive vs. NR200 which is steel, large and cheap. in absolute scale of quality - NR200 is no match for those cases but against the price & expectation I'm extremely happy with it. the only grip I have is the idiotic top mounting system / design where ~10mm in height clearance is wasted

 

[thelaughingman]

Today I received the ZS OC v1 (bought 2 weeks ago) and documented my unboxing & assembly experience. Really happy with the purchase and can't wait for the weekend to come!

 

[thelaughingman]

Got a couple of things done today!

first thing in the morning is getting this awesome case

transplanting my build is done, currently under 24-hour leak testing phase



@ZS-Cases 1 suggestion / request is a PSU bracket that mounts to the back of the spine just like the ATX PSU bracket BUT has mounting holes for standard SFX PSU. This is because in my use-case of SFX PSU with adapter then mount to the ATX bracket, the PSU sits 10mm off the stand and does not fully clear the mDTX board

 

[thelaughingman]

And the build is fully operational!


A few thoughts:

• This case being open building was super easy, everything is always within reach
• Now I wish I had RGB RAM LOL
• The shark-fin wifi antenna is meant to be on the spine like that
• The flow meter read out is not really helpful since my tubing is 7.6mm ID whereas the sensor only has 6mm, 10mm, and 13mm ID. Maybe if, and when, and I can hold of those elusive Optimus compression fitting I can switch to 16/10 tubing
• Love how much more flow and less noise the D5 has over DDC, can never go back now.

 

[tinyitx]

And the build is fully operational!



A few thoughts:

• This case being open building was super easy, everything is always within reach
• Now I wish I had RGB RAM LOL
• The shark-fin wifi antenna is meant to be on the spine like that
• The flow meter read out is not really helpful since my tubing is 7.6mm ID whereas the sensor only has 6mm, 10mm, and 13mm ID. Maybe if, and when, and I can hold of those elusive Optimus compression fitting I can switch to 16/10 tubing
• Love how much more flow and less noise the D5 has over DDC, can never go back now.

Seems you have 4 (?) SSDs. Any at the back of the motherboard? If yes, does it have a heatsink?
Regardless of a heatsink, what is its temperature when under running a SSD benchmark?

If you go the RGB route, consider making the 3 front fans to red (top), yellow (middle) and green (bottom) and rename the rig from 'Unicon' to 'Traffic light'.

 

[thelaughingman]

Seems you have 4 (?) SSDs. Any at the back of the motherboard? If yes, does it have a heatsink?
Regardless of a heatsink, what is its temperature when under running a SSD benchmark?

If you go the RGB route, consider making the 3 front fans to red (top), yellow (middle) and green (bottom) and rename the rig from 'Unicon' to 'Traffic light'.

Only 2x M.2 NVME drives in my build, both are on the SO.DIMM card. I haven't run any benchmark for them but the hottest the WD Black drive gets (Gen4) is 48C.

If there's any RGB fans that is equivalent to the A12x25 then I'll switch haha

 

[thelaughingman]

and I just paid 2,300 USD for a 3090 FE, exactly on the nose on how much over MSRP I can afford plus it will be one of those rare unicorns locally since I'm based in Vietnam.

next step, securing a goddamn water block!

currently I'm debating these options:

• EK Special Edition - really love the visual design, the 2 terminals for flexibility and can upgrade to an active backplate down the line if necessary. Heavily featured in Optimum Tech videos so you all know what it is. Somewhat difficult to source based on my location
• Bitspower Mobius - actually smaller width than the EK block but it is a full 2-slot thickness, and I don't like the terminal protruding from the main block like that, but I can easily source it
• Corsair XG7 - the least striking visually, has all the thermal pads cut off and placed on the block & backplate already and I can get it for really really cheap

Current thinking is Corsair just because it's so much cheaper and more convenient. But I have always liked the EK since the launch. If only Optimus would come out with an FE block it would be insta-buy for me! Much appreciated if someone can chime in