Static pressure on a 10mm thick fan would be pretty low though, plus the air has to make a 90 degree turn.
Stalled Hutzy XS — Ultra Compact Gaming Case (<4L)
- Thread starter Hahutzy
- Start date
Static pressure on a 10mm thick fan would be pretty low though, plus the air has to make a 90 degree turn.
Is there even a single 80x10 fan available in retail? I know Scythe has them on their small CPU coolers, but they don't seem to sell them standalone.
Yes, that is all very true. Including that space now and getting the business up and running to eventually be able to do this is the best route, I'm sure. Certainly do this yourself and compare the temperatures before and after. As Aibo said, maybe this isn't as great of a solution as we might think.
I think our views on the maximum length of GPUs differ quite a bit. For me, I want to give the consumer as much choice as possible, and the reality is that there substantially more GPUs with a length of =<180mm than =<170mm.
Just a short list of the most significant examples:
- GTX 970: 3 <170mm; 5 <180 (1 ASUS, 2 Gigabyte; 1 Inno3D, 1 KFA²)
- GTX 960: 2 <170mm; 9 <180 (2 ASUS; 3 EVGA, 2 Inno3D, 2 Zotac)
- GTX 950: 1 <170mm; 4 <180 (1 MSI; 1 ASUS, 1 EVGA, 1 Zotac)
- GTX 750Ti: 13 <170mm; 13 <180 (No difference here, great!)
Of course, this is nothing but another design decision. I absolutely understand that the magical 4L mark shouldn't be crossed if possible, so extending the length comes at a high cost now, but you should think about the potential sales that you could lose because of this. Maybe I'm taking this too serious.
I also highly doubt that our small run cases will incentivise GPU manufacturers to keep their cards at 170mm.
I would do a strawpoll or similar to see what people think. I would be happy with anything <4.5L to be honest as having all mini-itx gpu lengths taken into account (up to 180mm) would make this case flexible enough while not compromising a small volume size footprint.
The major advantage you have currently is that users can use either a flex-atx (add a 80mm fan even) or powerboard/external brick solution. I would really market the fact that users can have two potential power source options. The MC600 and NFC S4-Mini (both great cases), can only support a powerboard/external brick solution. I would also market the fact that users can have more power headroom and pay less for the flex-atx power source option (hopefully get the 500w).
Really, if its around 4.2L, I do not see this being a big issue as I feel this potentially could be the Ncase of 4L cases due to flexibility of configuration should you allow for up to 180mm gpus.
The major advantage you have currently is that users can use either a flex-atx (add a 80mm fan even) or powerboard/external brick solution. I would really market the fact that users can have two potential power source options. The MC600 and NFC S4-Mini (both great cases), can only support a powerboard/external brick solution. I would also market the fact that users can have more power headroom and pay less for the flex-atx power source option (hopefully get the 500w).
Really, if its around 4.2L, I do not see this being a big issue as I feel this potentially could be the Ncase of 4L cases due to flexibility of configuration should you allow for up to 180mm gpus.
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I have 8010 fans laying around that I got from ebay when I wanted to use them as case fans for Hassium. And I've seen some 8010 fans sold on Amazon.
I want to start off the technical discussion with this: it all comes down to testing in practice to really know.
But I do have some thoughts on this matter in theory (please correct me if I'm wrong):
- Thin fans don't have to have low static pressure. They have lower total pressure than thicker fans. They can achieve same static pressure as a thicker fan, but at the cost of having lower velocity pressure.
- Pressure is measured over a surface area, so an 80mm fan with y/4 static pressure would push a column of 80mm-diameter air with as much total static pressure as a 40mm fan with y static pressure pushes a column of 80mm-diameter air. This means that a 80mm fan with a lower static pressure number can still push a column of air with more pressure than a 40mm fan with a higher static pressure.
- There's no denying that the 90 degree turn will cause turbulence. I cannot comment on how much that will impact performance.
For all intents and purpose of this case, I have always disregarded anything below 970 and the Nano.
Inno3D is 172mm, so it will fit in my case after all, because I shrunk the length allowance from 180mm to 172mm.
Gigabyte is 172mm, and there's only one of them? Some sites quote it as 170mm though.
In my opinion, the incentive for manufacturers to make cards less than 170mm is not for specific computer cases, but the marketing buzz of a "Mini ITX card". It makes buyers associate their mITX motherboard to a mITX gpu.
The only reason I see for 180mm cards to exist is twin 80mm cooling fans. But why do that when you can just use a single 120mm fan? Quieter, less power draw, and you actually have 10% more surface area... That is why I believe 170<X<180 will continue to be very rare, if not increasingly so.
Trust me though, it was a very difficult design decision to make. The idea of a UCFF machine, and the idea of preserving component compatibility, are both really hard to give up...
I think what I've currently decided is to stick with this configuration, allowing up to 172mm. The "sub-4L" is too cool of an idea to give up.
But when the next-gen GPUs come out and if there's an overwhelming amount of worthy GPUs that fall within 172<X<180, I will concede and lengthen it a bit. I'm willing to wager there won't be.
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I would really market this hard and maybe try to get hardware canucks, linustechtips, tek syndicate, or jayztwocents to talk about your cool case project. What made the Ncase such a success story is how well they marketed the product (gaming news sites/popular YouTube channels) and made the progress clear to potential buyers with nice diagrams, prototype pictures, as well as gaming temperatures and noise levels for various prototype pc system build configurations (various cpus, gpus, etc). The fact that their original HardForum thread has 482 pages of posts/replies is a testament to this.
Doing something similar where you have a nice Google Doc (like Ncase M1 had) that has the compatibility chart, people's detailed PC build specs, etc will get people excited. I do not know if you have yet, but maybe posting on reddit pc-related pages or PCpartpicker would be other great marketing options.
I really want your project to be a success. This case really has the potential to be the Ncase of 4L/UCFF cases.
Doing something similar where you have a nice Google Doc (like Ncase M1 had) that has the compatibility chart, people's detailed PC build specs, etc will get people excited. I do not know if you have yet, but maybe posting on reddit pc-related pages or PCpartpicker would be other great marketing options.
I really want your project to be a success. This case really has the potential to be the Ncase of 4L/UCFF cases.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I do have the marketing in the back of my mind, and I tried trace the history/strategy of the M1 before.
I remember at their first Indiegogo campaign where they asked for $8000 for their first prototype, they already sorted out their manufacturing source and finalized design - two crucial things that I am in the process of doing, but have not completed.
So I know there's a lot of exposure-related things to be done, but I don't think I'm there yet. Close though.
I remember at their first Indiegogo campaign where they asked for $8000 for their first prototype, they already sorted out their manufacturing source and finalized design - two crucial things that I am in the process of doing, but have not completed.
So I know there's a lot of exposure-related things to be done, but I don't think I'm there yet. Close though.
Ya, I just wanted to bring the marketing aspect to you. I am a mechanical engineer, but I have realized that good marketing really goes a long way no matter how good your product is. Unfortunately consumers are a fussy bunch and lazy when it comes to researching products, so that's where clear and clever marketing helps this a lot.
I do not want to put unnecessary pressure on you over the marketing aspects as you seem to have nailed the deliverables/milestones pretty much. Take your time to make a quality product and if you are about to burn out, do not feel bad about taking a week or so long break. Potential buyers will absolutely understand as you are the only one working on a really ambitious PC case project with just the help of other SFF enthusiasts and custom case builders.
I tried to fit the EVGA GTX 960 in a case with 180mm clearance but it wouldnt fit by a couple of mm, I measured the card at 183mm from the flat section of the metal bracket to the rear of the card.
EVGA state that it's a 173mm length card, but I reckon thats a mistake.
I presume the EVGA GTX 950 is also the same length.
That is very useful information, and yes, all the short EVGA cards seem to share the same cooler.
From these picture, it looks like the shroud is longer than the PCB, can you confirm this? Maybe that's the length they measured.
If so, one could still fit this GPU by modding the shroud.
It would be a shame if it was that long, the I/O and exhaust are extremely nice for small cases.
Yes the shroud sticks out beyond the pcb by about 10mm. I will confirm tomorrow when I'm back home.
That's very true, not sure I would be willing to do that though!
If you want to file it, just make sure you don't end up like this guy: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/561041-980ti-darwin-awards-help
Or don't attempt it at all!
Also, since it's just a GTX 950.. Perhaps you can just use it without shroud
Pretty sure that wouldn't work too well. The shroud is there to force the air through the whole cooler. If you just removed the shroud, the cooler would just draw the air it just exhausted into the fins back in directly, so a lot of the cooler wouldn't get any airflow at all.
If you want to file it, just make sure you don't end up like this guy: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/561041-980ti-darwin-awards-help
Or don't attempt it at all!
This actually makes me want to cry
Most 10mm fans are slightly thicker. I left around 12-13mm space between the PSU and mobo for the fan.
Well, the work and rendering took longer than expected, but here's a continuation for the changes that were made.
Revision point #2: Design Aesthetics
3 major changes in aesthetic decision:
Here's a look at the base model of the old and the new:
(Note: the remaining holes along center are there for a handle, which I am deciding to add in or not)
Here's how it looks with the vinyl carbon fiber strip:
The decision to replace the aluminum highlight piece with a vinyl carbon fiber strip is because these come in different colors, so the idea is that the strip would color coordinate with the LED on the power button:
(Actual colors are being decided on, and the vinyl carbon fiber strip may not look exactly like that.)
I have made some progress with a manufacturer.
So the plan is:
Feel free to give me feedback on the handle and the vinyl strip + led color matching ideas. I'm all ears.
Revision point #2: Design Aesthetics
3 major changes in aesthetic decision:
- The body will be uni-color, most likely only available in black
- The center strip is no longer aluminum, replaced with vinyl carbon fiber strip
- The vent holes are all staggered pattern
Here's a look at the base model of the old and the new:
(Note: the remaining holes along center are there for a handle, which I am deciding to add in or not)
Here's how it looks with the vinyl carbon fiber strip:
The decision to replace the aluminum highlight piece with a vinyl carbon fiber strip is because these come in different colors, so the idea is that the strip would color coordinate with the LED on the power button:
(Actual colors are being decided on, and the vinyl carbon fiber strip may not look exactly like that.)
I have made some progress with a manufacturer.
So the plan is:
- Wait for the handle I ordered to get here
- Try it on my plastic prototype which I'm printing right now
- Decide if I want the handle and its associated holes
- Contact manufacturer to order a few prototypes
- Decide on colors to offer for the vinyl + power button (or maybe people don't want the strip at all?)
Feel free to give me feedback on the handle and the vinyl strip + led color matching ideas. I'm all ears.
Someone will say it sooner or later: That looks way worse than the previous accent. This might sound harsh, but using a vinyl strip for the customisation is something I would only deem acceptable in the most budget of PC cases, if you've got to squeeze out every last cent. If you want to do this, make sure to offer the version without a strip as well, looks much better in my opinion.
It still wouldn't look as good as the previous design, but you'll probably be saving a good amount of manufacturing cost, so it's certainly passable.
The idea of matching colours of the stip and the LED colour is nice, but it would look SO much better if the strip was the one from the old design powder-coated in the same colour. That would be very expensive, though.
On the handle: I think it was mentioned around here that there is a kind-of standard hole distance for handles that most aftermarket ones use as well. If the one you want to include is going to be very expensive, maybe think about changing the hole distance to that to allow a cheaper option. I think @Aibohphobia mentioned it in the Cerberus thread.
When you're using a staggered pattern anyway, way not go for hexagonal holes? That gives you more surface area for the intake which might help cooling a bit.
I am a fan of the all black version. I would skip the carbon fiber wrap all together.
Handles could go either way, in my experience it just makes it harder to fit in a pelican case. I guess it depends on your use, but having more options never hurts anything except final price.
Looking good!
Handles could go either way, in my experience it just makes it harder to fit in a pelican case. I guess it depends on your use, but having more options never hurts anything except final price.
Looking good!
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