Uhh.
When did the side radiator support became optional?
When did the side radiator support became optional?
Oh, Thanks.
Requires a separate kit
I've never seen this one.
The one on the first post here isn't the same, as well as the one on the "Reddit lastest update" post.
Oh, I'm dumb.
Found it on discord....
Would be more clear if that was on here or reddit too.
Can't remember seeing it when I purchased mine
Wow, that's quite misleading if they changed it without telling anyone.
So far there haven't been any material changes, just edits to provide clarification. I wouldn't characterise that as misleading.
Also - and as has been said before - discord is the primary means by which updates and news have been provided. A number of the discord mods have aldo mirrored these to both this thread and reddit, but discord remains the source of the most up-to-date info.
If in doubt, check the pins in #formd on https://discord.gg/P86qn92eHT
Also - and as has been said before - discord is the primary means by which updates and news have been provided. A number of the discord mods have aldo mirrored these to both this thread and reddit, but discord remains the source of the most up-to-date info.
If in doubt, check the pins in #formd on https://discord.gg/P86qn92eHT
I would say it is really close to "misleading"... In the earlier spec sheets, they stated already other parts as "requires a separate kit" but not mentioned it in the area of liquid cooling...
Now they got rid of the previous info on the official Reddit side () which is really unlucky in terms of easing the potential "misleading" discussion.
I would say it is really close or even misleading, because, depending on the price and availability of the side bracket and we all know how bad the accessory section for the V1.1 was, the V2.0 SW is potentially the way better Best/Value case instead of the T1 V2 Ref. now.... and to change specs after pushing the IC people to order isn't the most intelligent thing either.
Now they got rid of the previous info on the official Reddit side () which is really unlucky in terms of easing the potential "misleading" discussion.
I would say it is really close or even misleading, because, depending on the price and availability of the side bracket and we all know how bad the accessory section for the V1.1 was, the V2.0 SW is potentially the way better Best/Value case instead of the T1 V2 Ref. now.... and to change specs after pushing the IC people to order isn't the most intelligent thing either.
The spec sheet link on the subreddit was updated to show the latest one, that's been done every time.
I don't speak for the FormD team, but I don't believe it was intentionally misleading, more of a miscommunication.
On the discord w360 said a few weeks ago that the side radiator bracket is an accessory, and was then requested by the community there to update the spec sheet to reflect that, that was done and here we are now.
For the SW case at least, the reasoning is that dual rad builds are uncommon and it would just lead to a price increase across the board for the majority of people that won't use it.
I do understand your frustration though, I wish it was included too, especially for reference, and have been vocal about that.
It's not a "clarification" to silent edit the document that you've been telling people represents the specs for the shipping product. It's not like that info was on the website either.
It wasn't a silent edit, it was announced on the Discord.
So the post on Reddit, that has continually been referenced as an official source of info, was replaced without notification on Reddit, and you seriously think a separate Discord chat counts as an alternative? At best, you've established that the change was obfuscated, but it's a distinction without a difference.
don't assume malice, when ignorance suffices. w360 has never acted nefariously about a change to these case designs. he should definitely be forthcoming with changes like this but suggesting it's some sort of act of deceit is going a bit too far.
I write this without bad intentions and I personally don't assume malice but stuff like that should definitely be written on the product page for buyers.
I don't recall it was mentioned anywhere *yet* when I ordered mine. It is indeed frustrating because I would have liked to have one.
Having to place a second order for this accessory means another round of shipping fees which I'm not a big fan of.
Also FormD needs to do provide a better user experience, eg: The user manual should've been released as soon as the case was available for order.
I don't recall it was mentioned anywhere *yet* when I ordered mine. It is indeed frustrating because I would have liked to have one.
Having to place a second order for this accessory means another round of shipping fees which I'm not a big fan of.
Also FormD needs to do provide a better user experience, eg: The user manual should've been released as soon as the case was available for order.
@scott123512359 I understand your point and I am totally willing to understand that delivery times can slip or that W360 or somebody else has to change specs or prices to include economic changes etc. and everyone else and I were okay with that till April. I mean... we had delays, an IC check followed by months without additional information, we go the accessory route knowing that the situation with the T1 V1.1 was super bad - no problem and something you have to live within this space.
But all of this changes when you have official orders! An order is a contract between two parties to exchange goods and you buy what is stated to that point in time in specs and price. When the FormD guys get rid of the side bracket without a discount on the price it is like a raise in prices for everyone who ordered the case in April and to make a potentially more feasible example.... When you buy a car and the dealer tells you 2 months later that the radio is now optional and you have to pay an extra for it, are you happy and do you think that this is fair?
Last but not least...
1. Was the side bracket discussion already a point in mid-April when IC customers were forced to order to not lose their IC advantage?
2. If yes, why took it so long to update the spec sheet?
3. Why delete most of the posts on the official Reddit and not just publish new news to inform about the spec change - Especially this points very hard in the direction of "misleading" and to try to get rid of unpleasant infos
To be clear! - I totally appreciate the work from W360 and the other guys and I dont want to say that they try to deceive us! They just show us that they are not on top of the ops part and potentially not thought about those things enough to avoid such unpleasant situations which become very important when you have real customers instead of just "fans" who ordered nothing.
But all of this changes when you have official orders! An order is a contract between two parties to exchange goods and you buy what is stated to that point in time in specs and price. When the FormD guys get rid of the side bracket without a discount on the price it is like a raise in prices for everyone who ordered the case in April and to make a potentially more feasible example.... When you buy a car and the dealer tells you 2 months later that the radio is now optional and you have to pay an extra for it, are you happy and do you think that this is fair?
Last but not least...
1. Was the side bracket discussion already a point in mid-April when IC customers were forced to order to not lose their IC advantage?
2. If yes, why took it so long to update the spec sheet?
3. Why delete most of the posts on the official Reddit and not just publish new news to inform about the spec change - Especially this points very hard in the direction of "misleading" and to try to get rid of unpleasant infos
To be clear! - I totally appreciate the work from W360 and the other guys and I dont want to say that they try to deceive us! They just show us that they are not on top of the ops part and potentially not thought about those things enough to avoid such unpleasant situations which become very important when you have real customers instead of just "fans" who ordered nothing.
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they should definitely have updated everyone and included any promised parts that were removed from the product after orders were placed. i think it's just a total mishandling of information. maybe they should send the kit for free to anyone who ordered before it was posted to every official outlet.
@Exist50 @Lucky @Exist50 @eedev We didn't broadcast thoroughly that the Side Fan/Radiator Bracket is an extra accessory, and that's our mistake. We dropped the ball on this detail. Sorry about that 
This detail was overlooked because I saw less than 10 people with dual radiator builds from V1, and have even fewer customers emailing for this item. So we just didn't pay enough attention. We redirected our attention to make sure other parts are on time.
Let's do this. We will offer IC customers free shipping on this Side Fan/Radiator Bracket because we will pay for it to compensate for this mistake. I think that's a fair shake at the problem. We plan to open the store either this weekend or next Wed - waiting for some photos and a manual update. People should be able to put in orders via *credit card authorization, customer service will remove the shipping costs and collect payment.
In regards to emailing everyone with IC linked order, it's a tricky thing. I suspected the total number of people who will buy this accessory is less than 1%. Emailing everyone may be TMI and spammy to others. Might be too niche for mass email.
@Daegara @scott123512359 @NinoPecorino, thank you guys for giving us the benefit of the doubt, and we will work to do better.
This detail was overlooked because I saw less than 10 people with dual radiator builds from V1, and have even fewer customers emailing for this item. So we just didn't pay enough attention. We redirected our attention to make sure other parts are on time.
Let's do this. We will offer IC customers free shipping on this Side Fan/Radiator Bracket because we will pay for it to compensate for this mistake. I think that's a fair shake at the problem. We plan to open the store either this weekend or next Wed - waiting for some photos and a manual update. People should be able to put in orders via *credit card authorization, customer service will remove the shipping costs and collect payment.
In regards to emailing everyone with IC linked order, it's a tricky thing. I suspected the total number of people who will buy this accessory is less than 1%. Emailing everyone may be TMI and spammy to others. Might be too niche for mass email.
@Daegara @scott123512359 @NinoPecorino, thank you guys for giving us the benefit of the doubt, and we will work to do better.
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What about price of this bracket?@Exist50 @Lucky @Exist50 @eedev We didn't broadcast thoroughly that the Side Fan/Radiator Bracket is an extra accessory, and that's our mistake. We dropped the ball on this detail. Sorry about that
This detail was overlooked because I saw less than 10 people with dual radiator builds from V1, and have even fewer customers emailing for this item. So we just didn't pay enough attention. We redirected our attention to make sure other parts are on time.
Let's do this. We will offer IC customers free shipping on this Side Fan/Radiator Bracket because we will pay for it to compensate for this mistake. I think that's a fair shake at the problem. We plan to open the store either this weekend or next Wed - waiting for some photos and a manual update. People should be able to put in orders via *credit card authorization, customer service will remove the shipping costs and collect payment.
In regards to emailing everyone with IC linked order, it's a tricky thing. I suspected the total number of people who will buy this accessory is less than 1%. Emailing everyone may be TMI and spammy to others. Might be too niche for mass email.
@Daegara @scott123512359 @NinoPecorino, thank you guys for giving us the benefit of the doubt, and we will work to do better.
If i want buy it - what should i do?
That's very kind, thank you! (Got already rid of my order due to the ongoing silence around this topic, but still really appreciate the move for the other guys :-) ) - And, as I mentioned in my previous post, this was not against you @Wahaha360 or the other guys.@Exist50 @Lucky @Exist50 @eedev We didn't broadcast thoroughly that the Side Fan/Radiator Bracket is an extra accessory, and that's our mistake. We dropped the ball on this detail. Sorry about that
This detail was overlooked because I saw less than 10 people with dual radiator builds from V1, and have even fewer customers emailing for this item. So we just didn't pay enough attention. We redirected our attention to make sure other parts are on time.
Let's do this. We will offer IC customers free shipping on this Side Fan/Radiator Bracket because we will pay for it to compensate for this mistake. I think that's a fair shake at the problem. We plan to open the store either this weekend or next Wed - waiting for some photos and a manual update. People should be able to put in orders via *credit card authorization, customer service will remove the shipping costs and collect payment.
In regards to emailing everyone with IC linked order, it's a tricky thing. I suspected the total number of people who will buy this accessory is less than 1%. Emailing everyone may be TMI and spammy to others. Might be too niche for mass email.
@Daegara @scott123512359 @NinoPecorino, thank you guys for giving us the benefit of the doubt, and we will work to do better.
Additionally, I guess that the situation, especially around the reference case, isn't comparable with V1. With the SW layout, you get the opportunity to install a radiator and the additional bracket is really an enthusiastic tool. But when you get rid of the bracket for the V2 Reference you deny radiator support completely and this was, for example, the key to my decision to go for the reference case instead of the SW layout (no riser and radiator support in 10L... insane)
I will talk with the factory and team about getting the Fan/Radiator bracket included for T1-REF **IC** customers.
The key is that I don't want to give the factories an excuse to delay production. Factories will use it as an excuse for production delays whenever we add or change anything. This delay will upset some T1-REF customers because they don't like the trade-off.
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