Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[Diverge]

What's stopping them from just selling them on their own for marked up prices (like you see on ebay), and then making more to continue to do so? China is notorious for IP theft, and you already said you're the small fish in the big pond. So I assume you can't do anything legally, since they have more money than you.

 

[Asuka4Laifu]

Made an account just to say this:

I'm part of the august batch that got delayed, I personally don't mind waiting longer and I think people are being very critical right now. Hope you continue to make these cases regardless of the indifferent responses I've seen online.

Thanks for all your hard work @Wahaha360!

 

[WinterCharm]

@Wahaha360 I know how you feel right now, and it sucks to deal with... Hang in there mate. I love this project and the T1 was an inspiration for me, in its clever construction and beautiful lines. From one creator to another, The aluminum shitstorm right now is ridiculous.

 

[BSartist]

I just ordered an NR200 for $80 to hold me over. I'll move my old PC into the NR200 if/when the T1 arrives.

Not the ideal situation, but at least I won't have to deal with the PCIE 3.0 riser workarounds for a bit.

 

[AchromaticYYC]

So if August orders have not even shipped yet... November orders are delayed till what Q2 or later 2021?

 

[Wahaha360]

So if August orders have not even shipped yet... November orders are delayed till what Q2 or later 2021?

November shipments are #1 priority for us. We really dropped the ball on that one.

Whatever inventory we get outside of the 50% for Dec 1st-4th, we ship for November customer.

 

[Wahaha360]

If they broke their contract and are basically blackmailing you, then why do you need to honor NDA's? If this fails through and you need to cut ties, I hope you release their name and customers so we can boycott and shame them until they lose business.

I don't feel bad for a corporation that is supposedly incurring more costs due to covid, even if I believed it. Everyone is going through this. They had a contract with you, they should honor it.

There is a paragraph that says "natural disasters and macro economic conditions" which effectively protects their action to some extent.

They don't have to deliver the goods, and we don't have to pay them the remaining balance. However, this stalemate is worse for us than them.

They have more lawyers than people in our team, not going to win any lawsuits.

I just didn't expect larger factories to be this, I expect it from smaller ones, but big ones to be such a pain.

 

[Diverge]

There is a paragraph that says "natural disasters and macro economic conditions" which effectively protects their action to some extent.

They don't have to deliver the goods, and we don't have to pay them the remaining balance. However, this stalemate is worse for us than them.

They have more lawyers than people in our team, not going to win any lawsuits.

I just didn't expect larger factories to be this, I expect it from smaller ones, but big ones to be such a pain.

Can you tell us how much more per case in dollars? Doing so at least moves this forward for everyone on the fence about what to do about their orders. Obviously everyone has different opinions on additional costs, but waiting more time doesn't resolve anything. I'd rather spend $10-20 more than wait additional weeks for shipment. I'd assume the bulk of the cost is in the machine work, and not the cost of bulk aluminum. So I can't see the cost difference being too much.

The way I see it there are 4 outcomes:
1) You negotiate some kind of deal with them, based on future orders, or pay the difference yourself, if it doesn't negate profits without ever telling us the cost difference.
2) You are forced to pass the cost to the customers, and you will have to tell us the cost difference.
3) You cut ties and refund everyone and deal with business killing fallout.
4) They for some reason change their minds, and release the current orders. Seems very doubtful.

Saying you can't because of NDA doesn't make sense, because if they really want extra money, you're going to have to tell us if the cost is passed to us - even if it is passed to future batches we will know the difference. So why beat around the bush?

 

[Wahaha360]

Can you tell us how much more per case in dollars? Doing so at least moves this forward for everyone on the fence about what to do about their orders. Obviously everyone has different opinions on additional costs, but waiting more time doesn't resolve anything. I'd rather spend $10-20 more than wait additional weeks for shipment. I'd assume the bulk of the cost is in the machine work, and not the cost of bulk aluminum. So I can't see the cost difference being too much.

The way I see it there are 4 outcomes:
1) You negotiate some kind of deal with them, based on future orders, or pay the difference yourself, if it doesn't negate profits without ever telling us the cost difference.
2) You are forced to pass the cost to the customers, and you will have to tell us the cost difference.
3) You cut ties and refund everyone and deal with business killing fallout.
4) They for some reason change their minds, and release the current orders. Seems very doubtful.

Saying you can't because of NDA doesn't make sense, because if they really want extra money, you're going to have to tell us if the cost is passed to us - even if it is passed to future batches we will know the difference. So why beat around the bush?

i don't want to give a number to change it later, because it's not final until it's final.

If you are on the fence, just ask for refund.

Any parts you ordered for the T1, can easily fit into many other cases, why hold back on your build.

 

[cycles7]

I am a little confused. If we placed an order for a Dec 1-4 ship date, and got an email stating order has shipped; Queuing For Air Shipping (no tracking# until onboard airplane)11!

Did the case actually ship or is it on hold?

 

[Wahaha360]

I am a little confused. If we placed an order for a Dec 1-4 ship date, and got an email stating order has shipped; Queuing For Air Shipping (no tracking# until onboard airplane)11!

Did the case actually ship or is it on hold?

If your order is *still showing Queuing For Air Shipping (no tracking# until onboard airplane), your order shipped.

 

[Diverge]

nm, idgaf anymore.

 

[megeralt]

If your order is *still showing Queuing For Air Shipping (no tracking# until onboard airplane), your order shipped.

Where do I check this? In the Shop app it says Queuing For Air Shipping (no tracking# until onboard airplane), but on the website it says "
Your order is confirmed
You’ll receive an email and text when your order is ready."

 

[kazuma86]

Everybody with a little manufacturing experience can easily estimate required amount of alu stock for a T1, and thus how much an increase in retail price should be if forwarded 1:1 to the customer - it should be a lot below what you're quoting. But it doesn't matter. It seems the price would increase not just due to the Alu price, but because the manufacturer wants to charge more due to the desired high quality / the increased RMAs last month.

I think overall the FormD is/was greatly priced, and I think if we benefited from low material prices earlier this year, that's great. Now, if indeed manufacturing costs increase (due to whatever reason), it's fair to increase the retail price as well. T1 is selling well, and I want those that put in the effort of designing and selling stuff to earn some good money on it, and as a customer I want to get a product at the advertised quality.

But I have to say, I would find it very concerning if they charge any current customers extra, on top of the pre-order price. Whatever games the manufacturer is playing? Not our problem. Temporary increases in alu price? Not our problem. That's part of their business and their risk. This product isn't some keyboard group buy run by a hobby person, where everybody joining in is also sharing the risk. I've said this before on the topic of the RMA's, and I'll say it again: it's unprofessional to forward these burdens onto the customer if it's a structural error/miscalculation on their end.

already reply your mail, I'm okay with option 1. Hope everything can be resolved soon. Also, if the price going up. range US$25-50. I'm okay with that. But, this is not only my decision. Ty in advance.

 

[grinlight]

Mine is delayed d/t the price aluminum surge 40%, the manufacturer pending the production

 

[zz492]

November shipments are #1 priority for us. We really dropped the ball on that one.

Whatever inventory we get outside of the 50% for Dec 1st-4th, we ship for November customer.

May I ask about your current priority list of shippment? For now, it's:

the rest 50% of Dec 1-4 cases which has already manufactured > November cases > the other cases later than Dec 1-4 batch

is that correct?

 

[CorruptCommanderAc]

Mine is delayed d/t the price aluminum surge 40%, the manufacturer pending the production

based on what they said, it should be already produced but the manufacturer refuse to release the units to Formd.

 

[sffN0ob]

@Wahaha360

Just want to say I think your response given the circumstances is commendable. Honouring and even recommending refunds if people are on the fence is something that will garner you some goodwill in the future.

I'm not in a position to keep my order on past Dec/Jan so I unfortunately had to cancel my order. But I think there are a lot of customers out here (reluctant ex customers and keen potential ones) that will happily support your business once the dust has settled. Best of luck going forward. You have a solid product.

 

[biopunk]

@Wahaha360 you designed one of the best SFF cases on the market, in 2020 the demand greatly exceeded the supply and we still haven't got the accessories. With P1 coming in 2021 perhaps it's time to start looking for a different manufacturer that has enough capacity and has better QC?

 

[wenyuax]

Long time no see!
I finally finished it, the 240 + 280 configuration. It takes 2 more months to finish it due to house moving and several unexpected issues.
Config:
3950x + 3080
TridentZ Royal 2*32G C18
AlphaCool 240*25 + Corsair 280*30 radiators
Noctua A12x15 * 2
Custom-made full cover for Aorus X570-I

I wanted to have hard tube at the CPU side and soft tube at the GPU side. However I finally decided to do all soft tube since I could not add a pressure exhaust fitting. I'll try to find a method to have that fitting and make it looks better after I get my E-White version.

And here's some thermal testing

3950x set to PBO with 80℃ limit, 3080 set the power limit to 340W
Fan curve set to: Pump full speed (6w DDC 3.1), Fan curve set to 1400rpm when CPU 80 ℃. That is, the fans won't spin faster than 1400RPM since AMD will auto calibrate the CPU to make sure it is not hotter than 80℃

Playing CyberPunk 2077: CPU 80w average (Not full loaded), GPU 340W：
CPU 80℃
GPU 55 ℃

Cinebench：CPU gets to 170W with 4.1GHZ all-core
CPU 75 ℃
GPU 40 ℃

Furmark + AIDA64 FPU stress test：CPU power goes down as GPU temp goes up. Finally stabalized at CPU 110W, GPU 320W
CPU 80℃
GPU 60℃

I have to say these two slim fans are really strong!

I would expect this configuration may be able to dissipate 500W+ power. Especially if I could deactivate the Power Limit of my 3080 (It is not a premium version and I need to flash another BIOS to make higher power possible. That's risky so I choose not to do that).

I'll try to figure out a setting to stress the system power to 500W+ and see if it works.

Don't know whether it is better than Dual 240 configuration, maybe someone with simimar core config could do the comparision.

Maybe @fabio could do this lol.