Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[wenyuax]

120mm rad is easy, I can probably run that in push-pull with 2x 25mm thick fans so I don't think we're discussing about it here. to fit 25mm fan on 27mm thick 240mm rad you need to remove 10mm from either the fan or the rad or both, which is just not possible


@DrHudacris sanded down Scythe Kaze Flex and I think @wenyuax is going to sand down Noctua A12x25 soon.

Don't put words in my mouth lmaoooo! I'm gonna use the 17mm 240 radiator so it's only 42mm total! And I won't try the pull option (that makes it thicker because of screws) since I need the clearance to route my tube. Otherwise the top radiator will be only 1cm away from my side 280 radiator and no place to put any fitting on my top radiator!

Wait, maybe I could? If I push the side radiator to the top the clearance may be enough for the alphacool's low profile 90° fitting!

So did anyone tested whether pushing or pulling is better? And how much is the difference?

 

[Ashenfall]

Don't put words in my mouth lmaoooo! I'm gonna use the 17mm 240 radiator so it's only 42mm total! And I won't try the pull option (that makes it thicker because of screws) since I need the clearance to route my tube. Otherwise the top radiator will be only 1cm away from my side 280 radiator and no place to put any fitting on my top radiator!

Wait, maybe I could? If I push the side radiator to the top the clearance may be enough for the alphacool's low profile 90° fitting!

So did anyone tested whether pushing or pulling is better? And how much is the difference?

Not in the T1, but here's a relatively ancient test from KitGuru

Fan config: Does it matter? Testing push vs pull vs push/pull - KitGuru

When I built my first PC a few years back, I used the excellent Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO to cool

www.kitguru.net

Push is ever so slightly better than pull by 1-2 degrees on both an air cooler and a radiator

 

[wenyuax]

Not in the T1, but here's a relatively ancient test from KitGuru

Fan config: Does it matter? Testing push vs pull vs push/pull - KitGuru

When I built my first PC a few years back, I used the excellent Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO to cool

www.kitguru.net

Push is ever so slightly better than pull by 1-2 degrees on both an air cooler and a radiator

That helps!
But why the hell push and pull is HOTTER than push only in the first test??????

 

[Ashenfall]

That helps!
But why the hell push and pull is HOTTER than push only in the first test??????

Where you seeing that? Push-pull is cooler than push only under load for both the Hyper 212 and Liquid Freezer 240

 

[wenyuax]

Where you seeing that? Push-pull is cooler than push only under load for both the Hyper 212 and Liquid Freezer 240

The idle temp for hyper 212 led. Push/pull gives 24 and push gives 23 lol.

 

[tinyitx]

The idle temp for hyper 212 led. Push/pull gives 24 and push gives 23 lol.

The difference is only 1C which could be just accounted as a margin of error during the testing.
But, I think, the more likely explanation is that the reviewer did not take the ambient temp into consideration.
Looks like he first tested 'push', then 'pull, and finally 'push+pull' configurations. So, by the time he did the 3rd test, ambient air temp had risen by a degree or so.

Usually, push+pull would only give a couple degrees benefit except in certain situations like:-
a. a radiator with high fpi
b. dual towers like NH-D14

 

[Fitchew]

Finally managed to finalize (kind of) my first water cooling build, thanks to everyone in this topic.

@fabio Mad respect for your work, it really is tight space man!

Few things to correct before calling it finished. (If it ever finishes?)

To do list;

1. I guess I still have air pocket in the pump, since I hear running water sounds from time to time. (I guess I will get a cheap reservoir and try to push out/put more liquid with it.)
2. Get an offset adapter or 45 degree elbow for rad entrance. Now the tube is connected directly to rad, and it has light kink.
3. Get the pump cables sleeved.
4. Get an NVME drive
5. Although PSU cables don't bother me too much, I'll probably get custom thinner cables soon.
6. I'm thinking about getting another 90 degree turn for the right bottom corner. (Holding on to this idea, since I might use risers to push PSU to the side cover for better cable management)
7. Get a new gen two slot GPU so I can close the other lid☺ Hopefully with water block attached ?

Here are some shots of my case;

I would like to pay the attention of you guys that @grinny used the Sapphire Nitro+ RX 5700 XT. Like the new RTX cards, it has an air-through-heatsink design with short PCB. Besides, this card can be very hot with PL +50%.

Spoiler: Nitro+

 

[Wahaha360]

we need good 20mm thick fans and 20mm thick radiators

 

[PKAWA]

Some interesting AMD talk

 

[gintasr]

really wish this case was 1cm taller, what was the reasoning behind not allowing 25mm fans with rad?

 

[fabio]

really wish this case was 1cm taller, what was the reasoning behind not allowing 25mm fans with rad?

Well, officially the 240mm rads are not supported (apart from the LT 240 with 1 slim fan).

So, This case was designed to support 120 AIO with a 25mm fan, staying below 10 Liters, having support for 3 slots GPU, etc, and it is perfect on this!

All the rest are unsupported configurations, so, whatever we can say, it's outside the design itself!

 

[Ashenfall]

The idle temp for hyper 212 led. Push/pull gives 24 and push gives 23 lol.

eh I wouldn't pay attention to idle temps. Load is more relevant IMO

really wish this case was 1cm taller, what was the reasoning behind not allowing 25mm fans with rad?

from memory there was a design goal of certain LxWxH proportions in relation to each other while trying to stay under 10L. Increasing height by 1cm would have ruined the proportions/volume goal

also 240mm AIOs with 25mm fans was never the intended goal for the designers either. They always intended it to be for 120mm radiators only. 240mm radiators being able to fit with 15mm and 25mm thick fans was just a coincidence

 

[TSOF]

There’s a reason this case looks great - you can design a case that has a lot of features but it can end up looking like Homer’s bubble car.

 

[tinyitx]

...This case was designed to support 120 AIO with a 25mm fan...

...They always intended it to be for 120mm radiators only...

Reflecting on this for a moment and I find it interesting.
If (just a hypothetical consideration) the T1 can actually only allow 120 AIO and absolutely no 240 whatsoever, will current owners' interest in it be greatly diminished?
How many of you guys will still buy it? There are other features, of course. But is this 240 feature (by 'coincidence and not by design) a 'must-have' feature?

 

[fabio]

Reflecting on this for a moment and I find it interesting.
If (just a hypothetical consideration) the T1 can actually only allow 120 AIO and absolutely no 240 whatsoever, will current owners' interest in it be greatly diminished?
How many of you guys will still buy it? There are other features, of course. But is this 240 feature (by 'coincidence and not by design) a 'must-have' feature?

Depends on your needs! With a standard Intel Wattage plan and the Actual Ryzen CPU, the max CPU power consumption are around 120/140W, and an L12S or a 120AIO are perfect for this. GPUs on Air are amazing IMO as well.

My answer is, YES, is the best case for 90% of the people!

 

[gwertheim]

@fabio I found your next radiator to test

Condenser Coils | Coilmaster

coilmastercorp.com

@Wahaha360 nobody is going to be happy until you go this way anyways

If you want to dig deeper on rads on an industrial scale. Look up heat exchangers same principal, might give you some ideas.

 

[Speedster]

Reflecting on this for a moment and I find it interesting.
If (just a hypothetical consideration) the T1 can actually only allow 120 AIO and absolutely no 240 whatsoever, will current owners' interest in it be greatly diminished?
How many of you guys will still buy it? There are other features, of course. But is this 240 feature (by 'coincidence and not by design) a 'must-have' feature?

I don't even have an AIO in mine - Black Ridge with 92mm Noctua on the CPU, and a Gigabyte 2080 Super on air. Two Noctua 25mm fans exhausting air from the case. Works really well and not too bad on thermals or noise when the load ramps up. My interest still holds.

 

[Ashenfall]

Reflecting on this for a moment and I find it interesting.
If (just a hypothetical consideration) the T1 can actually only allow 120 AIO and absolutely no 240 whatsoever, will current owners' interest in it be greatly diminished?
How many of you guys will still buy it? There are other features, of course. But is this 240 feature (by 'coincidence and not by design) a 'must-have' feature?

100% will still buy

This is the only ITX case available that has mesh panels for the ideal combination of good airflow and dust/fur filtration, and supports 3 slot GPUs, that I could obtain in Australia. Out of all the SFF cases out there it ticked the most boxes for me (and I trawled through this entire list)

240 AIO compatibility was a non concern to me as I started off my build plans as a strictly air cooled build. As my research built up I slowly understood that some form of water cooling, be it AIO or custom, would be necessary to keep the temps of my desired CPU in check, and now my plan is currently a 240 AIO, and later changing to a 120mm rad CPU only custom loop

Due to the demands of the market though, there is now the FormD P1 under development, which is a similar mesh panel sandwich case which is specifically built around 240 and even 280 AIO support. However that's far from production, it's barely into the prototyping stage.

 

[DmanX]

Two questions;

1. Are the aluminum louvre style side panels still on track for end of year availability. They look awesome. Must have them.

2. In the illustrations on page 1, the two cutouts on the front... what are they? future expansion for USB 3.2 Type C and SD card reader slot?

 

[eblvrm]

I don't even have an AIO in mine - Black Ridge with 92mm Noctua on the CPU, and a Gigabyte 2080 Super on air. Two Noctua 25mm fans exhausting air from the case. Works really well and not too bad on thermals or noise when the load ramps up. My interest still holds.

I agree 100% percent regarding all air T1. I just came back from 240mm Corsair H100i + 2xA12x15 build to Noctua L9a + 2xArctic P12. I just could not stand my aio pump coil whine even at lowest setting and turbulence noise generated by slim Noctuas below top panel during load. Maybe I'm just to sensitive for this type of noise but i was not feeling comfortable after around 30 min using my PC without any music/radio playing. For my config with is mostly used for gaming - 3 slot 2070 super and undervolted 3600 paired with L9a is more than enough. In the future I'm going to buy Black Ridge for sure. It is very versatile cooler that can be used with additional 120mm slim fan in 2 slot mode for extra performance.