Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[hetvler]

Depending on the components you choose, you can cool everything with a single 240mm rad, and you would get better thermals (especially for the GPU) and noise levels compared to a 240 rad and a 3 slot GPU. Also, I think some people go over the top just because they can (Dr. Hudacris for example)
For most people, a 240mm AIO and a 3 slot GPU will probably be just fine in terms of cooling, but for those that want the absolute best, they might go full custom watercooling.

I think you are talking about the 240AIO + 3-slot GPU configuration.
My opinion is, the thermal performance may not be as well as what you think it should be. And custom loop has the extreme flexibility and possibility to give you the better performance.
Maybe 3 more fans on GPU yields better thermal performance. But you need to know that all heat is dissipated into the case, which needs to be exhausted by the top fans. That means your CPU will not be cooled sufficiently.
In addition, custom loop takes the advantage that it's deadly silent. You only get two fans and a pump, which is much more silent than a 240AIO + 3-slot GPU.
Also, custom loop is much stronger than you think. At least it's better than an AIO with the same radiator size. With some tweaking (Undervolting and maybe decreasing the frequency a little), a 240 custom loop can really do most things.
About it's possibility, I'm also planning to build a custom loop and I've already got a feasible plan to have much larger size of radiator in T1 (Maybe 240 + 280 or at least dual 240). With that you can overclock both a 3950x and a 3090 to the almost highest point. That's what only custom loop can provide in a case small like this.

With the 3080/90 taking 330/350w respectively do you two stand by the assertion that 1 240rad can handle that+CPU and be more effective than 240 rad on the CPU and a 3slot card?
I was just thinking that with more rads/fans you'd be able to run them all slower/quieter but that is a good point that the CPU will likely run hotter in this config.
Again I'm big dumb and could be wrong.

 

[Navic]

With the 3080/90 taking 330/350w respectively do you two stand by the assertion that 1 240rad can handle that+CPU and be more effective than 240 rad on the CPU and a 3slot card?
I was just thinking that with more rads/fans you'd be able to run them all slower/quieter but that is a good point that the CPU will likely run hotter in this config.
Again I'm big dumb and could be wrong.

I don't think running a 3080/90 plus a mid range to high end CPU will be possible on a single 240 without heavy undervolting and having the fans run super fast.
I think watercooling a 3080/90 and then air cooling the CPU might be an option, or maybe the other way around, but idk about both in the same 240mm loop.

 

[hetvler]

I don't think running a 3080/90 plus a mid range to high end CPU will be possible on a single 240 without heavy undervolting and having the fans run super fast.
I think watercooling a 3080/90 and then air cooling the CPU might be an option, or maybe the other way around, but idk about both in the same 240mm loop.

Precisely why i'm asking haha. thats what I was planning on doing because in my head thats the best config. Just trying to wrap my head around it and get other views

 

[fabio]

Hi @fabio which card do you plan to buy? Seems like FE card is different from the reference card so I think we need to find a 3rd party GPU with the reference PCB.

For sure I will wait one months before to buy any! I want to see reviews and what the other manufacturers release!
GPUs at day 1 has never been a good idea! ?

 

[stanleyguan]

Sounds weird right? haha
I'm planning a negative pressure build. I'll put a large radiator at the GPU side and cool it using the top fan. That means I must seal the CPU side and the bottom side well so that most air can flow from the GPU side. The only concern is that the mother board may not be cooled sufficiently in this configuration. I'll test it's feasibility and whether I need to provide some air to the motherboard. Maybe I'll not seal all pores and flip the PSU to create an air flow at the CPU side.
If that succeed, this may be the most cool (both visually and physically) build and I can overclock everything in a 9.5L case. That's nice isn't it?

That's a cool idea! I think it'd be viable especially if you decide to not have fans on the GPU side radiator.

I'm curious if it would be better than an unsealed setup that has fans on the side radiator. In that config, the GPU side radiator should be roughly as effective as the sealed setup, but the top radiator will be more effective because it's not only getting the heated air from the side radiator.

One thing to consider is that radiators nowadays are generally quite efficient. With TX240, air out of the radiator is only ~2C below the water temp per my measurements (at 38C water temp). So the second radiator in your case (i.e. your top radiator) would not have a lot of temperature differential to work with. This is corroborated by Corsair's comments quoted in LTT's video linked below, where they say it will be only 1C below water temp. Granted, we are probably working with thinner radiators here, but still. Also the air is going to pick up additional heat inside the case (from VRM for example). The fans on the top radiator will provide less airflow, because of the increased restriction (compared to the unsealed setup). LTT has a great video that discusses this specific setup. You still get the benefit of getting colder air for your radiator for the GPU side, because it's getting air directly from outside rather than from the inside which your top radiator does. But you get the same benefit when the case is not sealed (assuming of course the fans on the side radiator can function effectively).

All that being said, it's definitely worth testing. Looking forward to your results!

 

[x111]

you guys should try Peltier thermoelectric cooling implementation on this case !!

.

 

[wenyuax]

That's a cool idea! I think it'd be viable especially if you decide to not have fans on the GPU side radiator.

I'm curious if it would be better than an unsealed setup that has fans on the side radiator. In that config, the GPU side radiator should be roughly as effective as the sealed setup, but the top radiator will be more effective because it's not only getting the heated air from the side radiator.

One thing to consider is that radiators nowadays are generally quite efficient. With TX240, air out of the radiator is only ~2C below the water temp per my measurements (at 38C water temp). So the second radiator in your case (i.e. your top radiator) would not have a lot of temperature differential to work with. This is corroborated by Corsair's comments quoted in LTT's video linked below, where they say it will be only 1C below water temp. Granted, we are probably working with thinner radiators here, but still. Also the air is going to pick up additional heat inside the case (from VRM for example). The fans on the top radiator will provide less airflow, because of the increased restriction (compared to the unsealed setup). LTT has a great video that discusses this specific setup. You still get the benefit of getting colder air for your radiator for the GPU side, because it's getting air directly from outside rather than from the inside which your top radiator does. But you get the same benefit when the case is not sealed (assuming of course the fans on the side radiator can function effectively).

All that being said, it's definitely worth testing. Looking forward to your results!

I've considered having a radiator at the GPU side for a long while. My early thought is to have a ultra thin 240 radiator at the GPU side. There's a 17mm 240 radiator in the market and should fit pretty well (just 4mm longer than Titan RTX).

However, later I noticed the Aquanaut waterblock. It frees more space at the GPU side and now I can have a radiator as long as 312mm at the GPU side. And Bitspower's 280mm radiator is 312*140! It fits perfectly without any gap! That's why I'm considering this negative pressure plan. I can now have a 280 + 240 radiator custom loop in this 9.5L case.

I'll choose Noctua's best 25mm fans to exhaust air and use the 17mm 240 radiator at the top. That means the GPU side radiator is really the main radiator and the 240 guy is just complementing.

I think this configuration may work as well as a 37mm 280 radiator custom loop. That's much more than enough and the 350w 3090 will be never impossible.

I've already pre-ordered an RTX3090. And I'll get a 5700xt or a radeon vii first if that pre-order failed. My build is expected to be finished on about Oct 20th (The case will be shipped Oct 12th-16th), so just wait for my build!

 

[gwertheim]

That's a cool idea! I think it'd be viable especially if you decide to not have fans on the GPU side radiator.

I'm curious if it would be better than an unsealed setup that has fans on the side radiator. In that config, the GPU side radiator should be roughly as effective as the sealed setup, but the top radiator will be more effective because it's not only getting the heated air from the side radiator.

One thing to consider is that radiators nowadays are generally quite efficient. With TX240, air out of the radiator is only ~2C below the water temp per my measurements (at 38C water temp). So the second radiator in your case (i.e. your top radiator) would not have a lot of temperature differential to work with. This is corroborated by Corsair's comments quoted in LTT's video linked below, where they say it will be only 1C below water temp. Granted, we are probably working with thinner radiators here, but still. Also the air is going to pick up additional heat inside the case (from VRM for example). The fans on the top radiator will provide less airflow, because of the increased restriction (compared to the unsealed setup). LTT has a great video that discusses this specific setup. You still get the benefit of getting colder air for your radiator for the GPU side, because it's getting air directly from outside rather than from the inside which your top radiator does. But you get the same benefit when the case is not sealed (assuming of course the fans on the side radiator can function effectively).

All that being said, it's definitely worth testing. Looking forward to your results!

LTT is a hack and does videos more for views than anything. Too many different factors to consider to take a cookie cutter approach.

I went to trade school for this stuff and I can tell you that some of the principals i learned apply but each case is unique to it's environment.

 

[stanleyguan]

If you can fit a 280mm radiator I think that will provide better cooling. BTW, I tested the 17mm radiator here. It was not too shabby!

 

[thelaughingman]

These 2 are pretty close. The TX has slightly better perforamce (1-2 degrees IIRC), but can fit a third fan pretty easily, so difference might open up more.

Update on fan mods: this is how I did it, pretty easy.


And I have tried the Arctic P12, unfortunately, also hitting critical temps:

you need to control the Vcore man, 1.4V is just too damn hot. I suspect you have the CPU with PBO On and +200MHz OC and everything else default? if you can get your 3900X OC all cores to at least 4.3GHz with Vcore of anything below 1.3V then just do that. Better temps, better performance also. For reference my 3900X is running 4.4GHz all cores at 1.275V, if I bump the Vcore to 1.3V temps increase by 5C at idle. It may save your coolant temp from reaching 60C too.

However, later I noticed the Aquanaut waterblock. It frees more space at the GPU side and now I can have a radiator as long as 312mm at the GPU side. And Bitspower's 280mm radiator is 312*140! It fits perfectly without any gap! That's why I'm considering this negative pressure plan. I can now have a 280 + 240 radiator custom loop in this 9.5L case.

I'll choose Noctua's best 25mm fans to exhaust air and use the 17mm 240 radiator at the top. That means the GPU side radiator is really the main radiator and the 240 guy is just complementing.

nice find with the 280mm rad, it's the 30mm thick right? Not sure how I feel about passive radiator though. Looking forward to your build and see the temps versus a dual active TX240 build (mine, but will be in 2021 because AMD is too slow on Big Navi). you meant 15mm fans up top right? Or are you going to sand down Noctua A12x25 like Huda?

Do it!!

 

[wenyuax]

you need to control the Vcore man, 1.4V is just too damn hot. I suspect you have the CPU with PBO On and +200MHz OC and everything else default? if you can get your 3900X OC all cores to at least 4.3GHz with Vcore of anything below 1.3V then just do that. Better temps, better performance also. For reference my 3900X is running 4.4GHz all cores at 1.275V, if I bump the Vcore to 1.3V temps increase by 5C at idle. It may save your coolant temp from reaching 60C too.


nice find with the 280mm rad, it's the 30mm thick right? Not sure how I feel about passive radiator though. Looking forward to your build and see the temps versus a dual active TX240 build (mine, but will be in 2021 because AMD is too slow on Big Navi). you meant 15mm fans up top right? Or are you going to sand down Noctua A12x25 like Huda?

If the case is well sealed I think we can expect the passive radiator performs close to an active one (but for x570-i I may need to leave some pore to give fresh air to the motherboard so that's a weakening point). And sure I'll use Noctua A12x25. This configuration should really count on strong air flow so two slim fans may not work. And 25mm fan with 17mm radiator fits undoubtedly.

 

[wenyuax]

If you can fit a 280mm radiator I think that will provide better cooling. BTW, I tested the 17mm radiator here. It was not too shabby!

Good to see this! And it's really within my expectation. I'm now more and more confident about the termal performance!

 

[DrHudacris]

you need to control the Vcore man, 1.4V is just too damn hot. I suspect you have the CPU with PBO On and +200MHz OC and everything else default? if you can get your 3900X OC all cores to at least 4.3GHz with Vcore of anything below 1.3V then just do that. Better temps, better performance also. For reference my 3900X is running 4.4GHz all cores at 1.275V, if I bump the Vcore to 1.3V temps increase by 5C at idle. It may save your coolant temp from reaching 60C too.

I have 3900x all stock for these tests actually. Only loading GPUs. Idk, temps might be high on CPU side due to poor contact. Asrock x570I is a weird board with a bunch of SMDs on the back where waterblock backplates go...I have to trim down the rubber gasket so as not to crush them when tightening cold plate down. Anyway, I'm testing as many fans as I can haha.

 

[laplamgor]

I've considered having a radiator at the GPU side for a long while. My early thought is to have a ultra thin 240 radiator at the GPU side. There's a 17mm 240 radiator in the market and should fit pretty well (just 4mm longer than Titan RTX).

However, later I noticed the Aquanaut waterblock. It frees more space at the GPU side and now I can have a radiator as long as 312mm at the GPU side. And Bitspower's 280mm radiator is 312*140! It fits perfectly without any gap! That's why I'm considering this negative pressure plan. I can now have a 280 + 240 radiator custom loop in this 9.5L case.

I'll choose Noctua's best 25mm fans to exhaust air and use the 17mm 240 radiator at the top. That means the GPU side radiator is really the main radiator and the 240 guy is just complementing.

I think this configuration may work as well as a 37mm 280 radiator custom loop. That's much more than enough and the 350w 3090 will be never impossible.

I've already pre-ordered an RTX3090. And I'll get a 5700xt or a radeon vii first if that pre-order failed. My build is expected to be finished on about Oct 20th (The case will be shipped Oct 12th-16th), so just wait for my build!

I agree with stanleyguan...
The passive side rad could heat up the intake air = less efficiency for the top rad.
One thing you may consider is the loop order. Putting the top rad (hotter air, hotter liquid) BEFORE the side rad (cooler air, cooler liquid) can be a much better setup (also proven in LTT video).

 

[Wahaha360]

Anyone try the the Koolance 240 HX-CU720V?

@fabio, want to take it for a spin in T1 on *two slim Noctua fans? Will have to remove the Top/Bottom Panel, I like to get some numbers.

Someone asked me if I want to make a customer AIO kit for T1, trying to figure out the right 1) radiator, 2) fan.

 

[AP2]

@Wahaha360 my Koolance 240 HX-CU720V will be here tuesday.

 

[fabio]

Anyone try the the Koolance 240 HX-CU720V?

@fabio, want to take it for a spin in T1 on *two slim Noctua fans? Will have to remove the Top/Bottom Panel, I like to get some numbers.

Someone asked me if I want to make a customer AIO kit for T1, trying to figure out the right 1) radiator, 2) fan.

I could! I also have the Magicool G2 if needed!

 

[Wahaha360]

I could! I also have the Magicool G2 if needed!

I'm trying to figure out the right FPI and size tradeoff for the best radiator. The Koolance with 30FPI has the highest performance, but i wonder about how the slim fans will actually do.

Once I get this data, I can finalize the spec for a custom radiator.

 

[ellroy80]

Here’s some pictures of a 3x NF A12x15 fan setup on a TX240.


I custom cut the included screws that came with the TX240 to ~17mm. They fully go through the radiator threads without touching the fins.

I also cut in half the anti-vibration pads that came with the noctua fans and placed them on the radiator to slightly raise it off the brackets so it doesn’t rub against the motherboard. The space between the top of the screws and the top panel is about 1mm. I didn’t want to screw it directly to the panel because the bottom fan wouldn’t be usable since the panel hole and radiator hole don’t align and I also felt that showing the screws at the top would take away from the case’s stealthy look.

The rest of my watercooling parts just shipped, all I need now is for AMD to launch Zen 3/Big Navi and Nvidia to launch Ampere.

I've been reading about the TX240 + 3 fan setup. Did you try running a 25mm fan on the bottom of the rad? I'm wondering if there would be improved thermal performance if using a A12x25 instead.

 

[fabio]

I'm trying to figure out the right FPI and size tradeoff for the best radiator. The Koolance with 30FPI has the highest performance, but i wonder about how the slim fans will actually do.

Once I get this data, I can finalize the spec for a custom radiator.

Cool! By heart I would say 18mm core, 25mm rad with 18/20fpi.

the TX is 22fpi with a 16mm core

The Koolance also has the higher performance but only at higher fans speed! The GTS is more balanced for example!